Combat system

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NewVigiL;n7530620 said:
I'm not, I'm going to guess the actual combat will be similar to what we saw in the division. reason I say this is the division was a shooter rpg hybrid, so you'll likely get hit points damage feedback when you land ballistic damage on enemies etc. likely we will have upgradeable special abilities similar to what we saw in the Witcher 3 with (signs) and lastly melee combat I don't think will feel similar to Witcher since we will be seeing much different melee weapons.

Well, the problem with what you describe is that it's nothing like the PnP RPG, Cyberpunk 2020, that CDPR played as kids , loves and bought the rights to.
 
Sardukhar;n7535770 said:
Well, the problem with what you describe is that it's nothing like the PnP RPG, Cyberpunk 2020, that CDPR played as kids , loves and bought the rights to.
Yep, I'm sure CP2077 will be a lot of things various players love and hate, but one thing I'm sure it won't be is a typical shooter game. Now it may, and probably will have certain elements in common with them, firearms, but that's like saying every game that has vehicles is the same as a racing game.

CP2020 has a perfectly good system, use it. It doesn't need, and will in fact be done a serious disservice if it's turned into what you suggest NewVigiL .
 
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LegateLaniusThe2nd;n7549310 said:
If the game does use a cover system please CDPR dont make it an automatic cover system. Were the player runs close to a wall and it locks in a cover animation. This causes weird clumsiness.

https://youtu.be/_Ax6EHw0vJU?t=10m39s

Depends really on the type of gameplay. Very fast, strictly shooters works in general better with hard lock on( where you press a button and player is bound to it, like a magnet). But moving feels "gimmicky", could not never get used to bouncing in Gears of War. Also devs, tend to simplify controls ( for consoles) so it can lead to problems...like in Mass Effect: cover, jump, use, revive...all use the same button.
Passive/soft lock is generally better for slower paced, looks better, but can be less reliable. Some do not like loss of control. Overall, I'd say Tomb Raider 2013 is actually best example of this.
I'd want to see plenty of options when it comes to movement, in or out of combat. Scramble forward, slide, roll to the side( when lying on the floor)+immediately shoot, dodge, roll, crawl, etc. Naughty Dog made a mistake of giving enemies pinpoint accuracy, even when player is moving quickly...do not do the same here, or the game will turn into Division yawn.

But as a whole blend of melee, action, stealth and tactics, I'd say MGS V is currently simply without equal. I'd like to see CDPR use that as inspiration here, since very fast "arcady" style of combat a-la-Mass Effect seems very unlikely and would not fit the setting.
 
I really hope the combat would be as fluid as MGSV. It's fast, it have weights, accurate movements, and very effective. the 3d person view angle also give a much better view on terrain especially with this game being basically in urban jungle. MGSV combat/gameplay system is superior in any kind of situation whether it's stealth, or rambo style. MGSV also have decent platforming and melee system though it could do better for melee maybe a mix of this with Bloodborne or Nioh fast ARPG combat but not too OP or they could do basic stuff like killing blow stuff ala Mass Effect series. I'll be honest after playing MGSV, there is no games that have a better 3d person shooter combat system for me, so far. Finally, please restrain with the whole "eagle vision" feature/power or I prefer don't used this kind of power at all, it's just takes away the sense of realism, for me personally.
 
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LegateLaniusThe2nd;n7549310 said:
If the game does use a cover system please CDPR dont make it an automatic cover system. Were the player runs close to a wall and it locks in a cover animation. This causes weird clumsiness.

https://youtu.be/_Ax6EHw0vJU?t=10m39s

I very much agree on you for this, a soft cover with variety of moves make a better combat fluidity, even Ubisoft finally taken note of this with their "ghost recon wildlands" after the lame "the division" though then again it's Ubisoft so it's not as fluid as MGSV in my opinion.
 
drona.667;n7638530 said:
I really hope the combat would be as fluid as MGSV. It's fast, it have weights, accurate movements, and very effective. the 3d person view angle also give a much better view on terrain especially with this game being basically in urban jungle. MGSV combat/gameplay system is superior in any kind of situation whether it's stealth, or rambo style. MGSV also have decent platforming and melee system though it could do better for melee maybe a mix of this with Bloodborne or Nioh fast ARPG combat but not too OP or they could do basic stuff like killing blow stuff ala Mass Effect series. I'll be honest after playing MGSV, there is no games that have a better 3d person shooter combat system for me, so far. Finally, please restrain with the whole "eagle vision" feature/power or I prefer don't used this kind of power at all, it's just takes away the sense of realism, for me personally.

MGSV has some flaws with its stupid AI but the combat for the most part was fantastic. If any developer was making third person shooter I would wholeheartedly urge them to copy MGSV combat. I especially urge CDPR to copy MSGV movement and controls. CDPR games are filled with terrible unresponsive controls.
 
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i'd like th combat to be third person, like Mass Effect or Dead Space, and easy to aim, wit irn sight as well as lasers, and some powers, skills, abilities with auto aim, like the smart pistl from titanfall, or some powers rom Mass Effect, that the enemis cannot dodge

and please, enemies with faces! some can wear helmet or masks, but please no clones, diferent faces

and some lock on system, like in the witcher 2 or tw3 or dark souls so you know which enemy you are facing and fighting if there are melee combat,

and lethal and non lethal weapns and takedowns, tranquilizer weapons, stun, electric smoke grenades, etc

 
In any event, whatever style of gameplay they choose, basic guidelines:

- Controls, controls, controls:

Focus on precision and responsiveness, instead of "realism". I can count a few out of dozens of examples where it added to gameplay and none are fast paced action oriented. Try to run a race without tying your shoe laces...that's Exactly how it feels like. Stop repeating Rockstar's mistakes on this.

- Open and Interactive/Intuitive gameplay:

Going between stealth, melee, ranged combat should feel easy and efortless. No messages popping on the screen: You cannot do action x because we invented some artifical obstruction. Player should be able to interact with environment, just as outside of combat and use this to his advantage. No invisible barriers which prevent enemy pursuit( unless there are logical world restrictions).
Open world games have (typically) weaker gameplay mechanics than more "linear" games, but they are at their best in spontaneous, non scripted scenarios as result of physics/AI/Environment interaction which force the player to quickly adapt to situation ( I could write a small book on those I've had in Far Cry series and none of them were hand signed by developers).
Do this right, from AI programming to interaction with world objects, and the "density" of content in Night City will allow a ton of opportunities for interesting emergent gameplay.

- Less soft lock based systems/More manual control:

While these improve the "flow" of gameplay and typically make it more "stylish", in games of longer length, they become more of a detriment as they make it less engaging with game makes decisions for you. And any imprecision in their design, makes the experience more frustrating. Focus on giving the fullest control to the player, in and out of combat.

- Punishment/Reward system within mechanics, system that rewards mobility, high risk and experimentation, high skill ceiling, customizable difficulty settings ( more oriented on AI dynamic than turning enemies into bullet sponges)
 
The perfect recipe for Cyberpunk combat system:

Base: Uncharted/Batman style 3rd person do it all

Ingredients: Demon's Soul, Witcher 3, Deus Ex, Mass Effect, The Last of Us, Metal Gear Solid

Spices: Max Payne 1&2, GTA 5, Fallout 2


Instructions: Slow cook in CDPR cauldron (not a pan!) until ready. Results may vary depending on the gaming platform xD
 
Let me try that too....

Base: 1st/3rd person + high up birds eye view (switchable), cursor driven where applicable + technically modern design sensibility

Ingredients: Cyberpunk 2020, Witcher 1, Morrowind, Deus Ex (the original) + mechanically old school design sensibility

Spices: Fallout 2, Wasteland 2, Divinity: Original Sin (-> tactical mode)

Mix the ingredients over a stowe and spice up gradually as the it slowly boils down. Put in a bowl and glaze with nice visual design and audio.
 
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Nioh has very impressive gameplay mechanics that CDPR would do well to examine. What stands out is how they made every action in gameplay matter, require attention and have some consequence, even the basic things like switching weapons, stances, etc...far more refined and rewarding than Souls series.
It makes gameplay immensely engaging in the long run.

It's disappointing in many action games ( including Witcher)...they are too "loose" with their mechanics in attempt to cater to widest audience. To use a metaphor: it's like building a guitar and then forgetting to fine tune it.
Put more effort this time into scripting and through options set through difficulty levels. ( Compare default Witcher with this : http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/1814/?)

Otherwise, players will always take the easy way and complain about game not requiring skill, then do it on their own and take full advantage of gameplay mechanics.
 
Tarathelion;n7463730 said:
And just because you don't like something does not mean everybody agrees with you. Yes, the gameplay/combat out of all elements is the one that you see the most criticism for but thats still a minority. Don't let the threads of neogaf and redit fool you. These are not representitive of gaming audience really (just look at those sites taste in games, its pretty niche where one of the most anticipated games is persona 5. Also, its a vocal minority factor as well, you don't write threads about something being good to often, I personally like the combat and gameplay in W3,(I am not saying its perfect, there is room for improvement) there are people who don't and thats fine but saying its terrible its a massive hyperbole. You can't find a lot of criticism for these elements in reviews either. Globally, if you look at percentage of people with positive reviews its and their opinions in various medias and aggregate sites, people seem to enjoy gameplay.

The gameplay was commonly criticized as very weak by a lot of people since its launch back in May of 2015
 
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LegateLaniusThe2nd;n7871600 said:
The gameplay was commonly criticized as very weak by a lot of people

How many is a lot? Like, 50? 2% of the user base? 2,000?
This is all anecdotal. You didn't like it - many of us did.

MORE TO THE POINT, this is a discussion about Cyberpunk combat. Use Witcher as a reference, but don't get in a fight about Witcher combat here. That boat has sailed.
 
LegateLaniusThe2nd;n7871600 said:
The gameplay was commonly criticized as very weak by a lot of people since its launch back in May of 2015
More "evidence"? Angry emotional outbursts and inability to accept someone's different opinion are indication of something entirely different. I don't need to spell it out to you on what that is.
 
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Zagor-Te-Nay;n7871970 said:
More "evidence"? ... I don't need to spell it out to you on what that is.

No, but I do need to spell out that your reply was awfully "fight-y". No flame wars, thanks. Especially OT flame wars. Even worse!

Keep it civil and, preferably, friendly. If anyone can't do that, don't respond.
 
Mk3rd;n7873710 said:
They should check out the Star Wars Jedi Knight series. The lightsaber combat was insanely good.

Still is. The JKII and JA servers still are maintained by the community and held up as THE golden standard for saber combat.

Anyway, on Cyberpunk, do we even know if we are going to have first or third person view? Will we be able to switch between the two of them? I don't think one view necessarily excludes any type of combat system, I've seen FPS breakthroughs of dark souls for gods sake and it works, but at the same time I look at things like Battlefront (the new one by DICE) and every single person who plays it points out that 3rd person is basically required for competitive play... which is a damn shame because the game is gorgeous looking in first person.

 
Zagor-Te-Nay;n7871970 said:
More "evidence"? Angry emotional outbursts and inability to accept someone's different opinion are indication of something entirely different. I don't need to spell it out to you on what that is.

Angry emotional? Not really I am just pointing out the werid logic in Tarathelion since he replied to me. Also more of evidence of the game getting criticism for its gameplay? I am honestly somewhat puzzled you ask me this since criticism for the games gameplay was pretty much everywhere on the internet it very hard to miss lol even in 2017.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...review_thread/
 
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