Combat system

[Calistarius]

What Solo would have an Empathy higher than 4? That'd mean little cyber and that'd be nuts.

Hey now... there is nothing wrong with going cyberless! In fact, if possible, I intend to go as cyberless as possible when I play my first solo. Of course... that might change at first contact with the game, because no plan compleatly survives first contact with a game... but if I can get away with it, I will use as little of it as possible.


Granted, part of this is more based around what my first Cyberpunk 2020 pnp character would be if I got to play the pnp... and there something like this, a none cybered up Solo, will probably be much easier to play compared to in a videogame.

My idea for the character is that the sheer fact that he is not cybered up... and that he does not use weaponry that relies at all on digital and electronical technologies, but rather uses compleatly mechanical types of weapons which would not show up on any kind of scanner which scans for digital and electrical types of things... and him being highly skilled at these weapons, but also stealth, and getting in where he needs to be, etc... that would be his selling factor as to why someone should even hire him to get a job done, because he could do certain types of jobs that someone who was cybered up could never do.

Of course, as mentioned, this is my idea for the pen and paper rpg of Cyberpunk 2020, and there this would be a perfactly viable plan to go by... but in the videogame Cyberpunk 2077 this might not even make one bit of a difference what so ever that my character would be cyberless... and if the game will actually have characters which only speaks in none english languages, then I would probably have to atleast get some translator chip inplants or something so that I could actually understand what these none Swedish- and none English-speaking people are saying in the game, because I strongly dislike leaving anything unturned and unchecked in videogames.

It all depends on how CDPR will deal with the cyber stuff in Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Sardukhar]

Hey now... there is nothing wrong with going cyberless! In fact, if possible, I intend to go as cyberless as possible when I play my first solo. Of course... that might change at first contact with the game, because no plan compleatly survives first contact with a game... but if I can get away with it, I will use as little of it as possible..

Yeah, whenever I see something like I this I grin, because a) your GM was REALLY REALLY nice and b)you think if cyber wasn't the best option available, it would be so ubiquitous for solos and netrunners and nearly everyone else?

I've seen people try this as a Solo, get the gloves or the smart shades..then they meet the guy who has +4 or better on them in terms of initiative. In FNFF. Usually, that's all she wrote, between Solos.

Occasionally, you have a fairly clever player do okay for a bit...then get hurt or poisoned or diseased or his tech is taken away at the door...and then that's it.

See, cyber and bioware is so common among the professionals because it is necessary at any level beyond the bare street. Skinweave, pain editors, chipsets, cyberlimbs that don't force stun/shock saves (followed by dying), awareness boosters that don't put a bead on your head because you are wearing bulky gear, clips so you don't bleed out, etc. etc.

You can do without these...but only if your GM isn't Playing for Keeps. Or you aren't a combat-oriented character. Or a hacker.

Cyber and bioware are as necessary to serious situations as the skills to survive said situations. Because the other gal absolutely has them - or there are four of them. Either way, once you nearly die - or do die - a couple times, it's off to the ripperdoc for you.

 

[Suhiira]

I played a classic Sam Spade police detective once who had zero augmentation. But as a detective he could call on LOTS of uniform cops and Special Tactics folks, so he didn't need to do his own fighting.

 

[Sardukhar]

I played a classic Sam Spade police detective once who had zero augmentation. But as a detective he could call on LOTS of uniform cops and Special Tactics folks, so he didn't need to do his own fighting.

Also, if done right, his horribly-outgunned-but-stubbornly-principled approach gives opportunity for some of those desperate, clever just-barely-survived-it scenes that Hammett and Marlowe both liked to put their characters into.

 

[Suhiira]

Another thing I want to address is full-auto fire.

Look at YouTube footage of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you see anyone (other then some of the Arabs who rarely hit anything) firing full-auto? Yet in almost every game that's the preferred type of fire.

Yeah it's cool.

It's also ludicrous to the point no one with any real world weapons experience can do anything but laugh. I don't think CDPR wants its games laughed at for their game mechanics ... even if they are incredibly popular with the ignorant.

(( Note: I said ignorant ... i.e. uneducated, not stupid, so don't get up in arms that I'm insulting you. ))

 

[lord_blex]

Yet in almost every game that's the preferred type of fire.

they usually do encourage firing in bursts though, unless they are going for the arcade-feel. mainly through recoil, and also (mostly in story-oriented games) by not throwing buckets-worth of ammo your way.

in general full-auto weapons are preferred in games because one shoot is hardly ever enough to take someone down, and this is the quickest/most convenient way to quickly deliver enough shots for a kill. if they go for a system where one-two shots take down anyone, this won't be the case.

 

[Suhiira]

This speaks for itself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An-nMlDeApI

 

[Corewolf]

Full auto is only used by the military in CIWS systems, Strafing runs by the A-10 and other planes, and emplacements.

Small arms with Full Auto is very impractical without specific circumstances/need for suppressing fire during a retreat or forward movement. It isn't something you kill someone with often

 

[Suhiira]

Full auto is only used by the military in CIWS systems, Strafing runs by the A-10 and other planes, and emplacements.
Small arms with Full Auto is very impractical without specific circumstances/need for suppressing fire during a retreat or forward movement. It isn't something you kill someone with often

Also useful in short range ambushes (performing or trying to get out of) and occasionally in urban/close quarters situations.

But for the most part leave it to aircraft (at their speeds it's the only way that can hit anything) and mounted weapons (tripods and such).

 

[Corewolf]

Also useful in short range ambushes (performing or trying to get out of) and occasionally in urban/close quarters situations.

Would prefer a shotgun.

 

[Calistarius]

Would prefer a shotgun.

The downside to them being that they are usually not versatile enough to handle all kinds of combat situations.

I think that is why I tend to gravitate towards assault rifles so much in most games... epspecially in FPS/3PS types of games. Because they tend to live in this kind of grey area between longranged rifles (like sniper rifles), and shorter ranged SMG's and shotguns.

It's not like I don't use other kinds of weapons then assault rifles... I do, it's just in a pretty limited amount... and it's due to circumstances more then anything. It also depends a bit on how many weapon you can actually bring with you as well. Sniperrifles has always been my favorit kind of ranged weaponry though, I just do not use it as often as my "favorit kinds of modern weapons lists" would suggest... not like swords are on the fantasy side of things, which probably close to 90+% of all of my fantasy/medieval characters tend to use. XD

For me though... Shotguns is almost always the last weapon I tend to go to, I would rather go with a pistol ahead of a shotgun in most cases... I prefer weapons with a general longer reliable range then Shotguns. I think this partly comes from the fact that where I prefer to be a close combat "Sword & Board" melee type of a player in Fantasy games, I prefer to be a longranged sniper'ish type of a player in most modern and sci-fi types of games (if I could get away with it I would totally go with a sniperrifle as my main weapon at all times, but versatility tends to win out for me in games where I have limited ability to bring weapons with me)... and shotguns then just does not cut it for me there.

The only exceptions to this tends to be in games like Fallout 1/2/Tactics, where it is not all that uncommon that some of my characters would have a shotgun as a backup... but it would partly depend on what kind of AR's I had available to me... since my standard equipment in for example Fallout Tactics would always be a sniper type of a rifle as a main weapon, and then some kind AR as the backup weapon... and some kind of melee weapon as well of course. XD

 

[Suhiira]

That's kind of the purpose of the modern Assault Rifle (i.e. the smaller caliber military rifles), they're sort of a cross between a full rifle and a SMG, they don't do either the best but can do both. The Battle Rifle (i.e. larger caliber versions) is the modern full rifle. For the most part modern militaries (outside a few specific situations) don't use SMGs any more. SMGs are mostly police type forces that want something more then a handgun but less bulky then an assault rifle.

 

[Calistarius]

Huh... I have heard the term "Battle Rifle" befor, but have not really though much of it though since I have never really befor heard/read people talk about it being different from for example an Assault Rifle... so I googled a little.

Turns out that when I am talking about "Assault Rifle" as my normal go to type of weapon in a lot of games... well that's not entirely correct then... well it is correct, since I do use them a fair amount... but a few other types of rifles falls as well under my normal goto types of weapons... Battle Rifles being one of them, I actually use a lot of them to, depending on the game though. It's just that a lot of games, and movies and tv and what not, tend to call these weapons Assault Rifles even though they are not, so I have missed that difference partly due to that.

So I googled a bit more to se if there is a term which might fit better... and I figured out what the actual collected term for the kinds of weapons I prefer to us... that of "Automatic Rifle"... except as a main weapon I do not normally go as high up as for example the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle), and I guess the sniper/marksman rifles which can potentually be classified as Automatic Rifles as well are things I normally don't use as a main weapon. Semi-Automatic Rifles can also at times be weapons which I gravitate towards, but it compleatly depends on the weapon.

I guess what I befor ment when I said that I tend to go with weapons that are somewhat versatile, I tend to draw that line at the top somewhere around the larger types of sniper/marksman rifles... be they full auto (which I don't think is all that common), semi-auto, or the more common bolt action kinds (especially this kind I tend to stay away from in games where I have a limited amount of weapons that I can bring... since they are not versatile at all)... also as mentioned when it starts to go towards heavier types of Automatic Rifles like the BAR, is where I will draw the line just befor these kinds of weapons. So I could easily go for something like the Battle Rifles FN FAL, or the H&K G3's, etc, with no problem at all. Then at the bottom line of where I prefer my versatile weapons to be is somewhere around 5.56 calibre types of rifles, like the M16, or the Swedish AK5 (which is the AR I had when I was in the military)... it is a fairly modified version of the French "FN FNC", it was modified to be able to stand the kind of winter we can get here), and things like Carbines if the larger versions are not available. For some reason I always have had a softspot for the Steyr AUG and the FAMAS, and would pick them if available, unless they happend to be fairly seriously not as good as other weapons in the game... XD If I go down lower then this, which I only do if I do not have available to me what I prefer... then it can be pretty much anything, like the MP5's (which of course are pretty standard for SMG's), but I always liked the FN P90 though so would take that over anything else if it was available (although... the P90 is sort of a midclass between a SMG and Carbines, so that is partly why I would go for it more often then anything else of these compact weapons).

So yeah... it is actually a fairly large range of different kinds of rifles that I gravitate towards then, when it comes to "versatility".

As long as they have at the very least a decent range and accuracy (or better, of course), have at the very least semi-auto (I rarely use full-auto on the weapons which have it, I tend to prefer to aim and take one shot at a time (maybe 2 or 3 at the most if things are hectic), rather then spray the area with lead... I tend to do that even with weapons which does not have anything else then fullauto), a magazine of about 15-20+ bullets at the minimum (or what ever is the standard amount in the game, since some games will go for something like 10 bullets for the sake of balance or something)... if it falls somewhere inside these criterias (and maybe a few others which I might have forgoten), then I will probably use it over other kinds of weapons.

 

[Suhiira]

Trouble is that unlike many games you can't carry a sniper rifle, 2 assault/battle rifles, an SMG, and a couple handguns. So unless you (by some miracle) know EXACTLY the situation you're going to be in, or are part of a team, each carrying different types of weapons, you have to compromise. No weapon is "best" for all situations.

 

[Calistarius]

Indeed. If we say that you can only carry two weapons, so two weapon slots only, size not being a restriction here... then I would go around with one of the versatile automatic rifle, and a sniper rifle. If there is a size restriction though... a main weapon and a common sidearm... then I would probably go with the versatile automatic rifle and some kind of pistol, alternativly an SMG is the game would consider such as a viable "sidearm".

A lot of what weapons I run around with in games also tends to be based around which weapons you can put suppressors on or not... where I prefer weapons which can have suppressors, since my normal playstyle tends to be sneaking around and taking down each enemy as silently and unnoticed as possible. Even if that means that the weapon I bring with me is not the most powerful one available... because I do tend to like to use the weapons which does the most damage in a single hit (with in my normal restrictions of what kinds of weapons I like of course)... but if sound levels is a factor in a game, then I will go for the weaker ones with supressors.

And also... the: "No weapon is "best" for all situations."... is exactly why I like to use the more versatile, middle of the road, weapons which can do close to everything, just not as good as other weapons that are specialized for that one thing. It is one of the many reasons why Swords (straight, double edged, european style) are my favorit melee weapon ever (although, the main reason swords are my favorit is because they look and are cool, and Knights use them (which is my favorit type of warrior)... in my mind atleast... XD )... and it is partly the reason as well that I tend to almost always play human in games where you can choice your race... because they are often the thing which is considered to be the jacks-of-all-trades in most games (although, even if they where not, I would still play human... because I like to play human, and because all other races are boring to me), where as most other races tend to be very limited in what they are considered to be good at and what types of roles they should play etc. Where most people see "Oh man, that/they/it is sooo boring! And they suck at X Y an Z!!!" with these things, I see the benefits of these things, and see that as exactly the reason why you should play/use them.

 

[RLKing1969]

A modified version of F.N.F.F would work for me.

 

[exogenesis09]

Melee Combat on Cyberpunk!!!

I don’t know if this is possible on games, but is there a way/possible for game developers to make combat changes the way you progress on the game? Like the Combat Animations Changes for a certain a reasons.
(Eg.

Character: Solo
Weapon: Knife
Character Skill on Weapon: Poor
Main Stat[Player Increases]: Strength
Combat: Melee
Combat Proficiency: Slow
Conclusion:
Slow at wielding knives so the combat animation will be slow, easy to counter and weak for Enemies. Newbie.

Then after using a lot of Knives at combat you know that Knives uses Agility Stats it become like this.

Character: Solo
Weapon: Knife
Character Skill on Weapon: Proficient
Main Stat [Player Increases]: Agility
Combat: Melee
Combat Proficiency: Super Fast
Conclusion Combat Animation:
Your new combat will be so fast and different new animation that you can matrix the bullets and block it with your knife. Completely new set of combat and different when you are beginner at wielding knife.

)


As you can see on the Witcher 3. The way how Geralt Combat such as Dodge, Light Attack, Heavy Attack is so repetitive that it doesn’t change until you become lvl 100 with Overpowered Equipment so we use some this immersive combat mods to make it more interesting and realistic such as E3 Combat Mod. So like is there a way OR A game to add/change the combat animation of every each character through Progression and In-game patches through Reworks?

Wouldn’t it be amazing if this would be a thing on Cyberpunk 2077 other than shooting? I mean i only see Shooting Combat as Basics as it is all about aiming and how weapons give you firepower. I don’t even have a problem a Counter Strike: Global Offensive Shooting Combat to get implement on this game since it’s all about Lethality and that’s what players like on that game. Not a hardcore fan of shooting games on RPG’s like GTA 5. I hope CDPR can think more relation between Shooter and RPG games.

 

[Suhiira]

Melee Combat on Cyberpunk!!!

As you can see on the Witcher 3. The way how Geralt Combat such as Dodge, Light Attack, Heavy Attack is so repetitive that it doesn’t change until you become lvl 100 with Overpowered Equipment so we use some this immersive combat mods to make it more interesting and realistic such as E3 Combat Mod. So like is there a way OR A game to add/change the combat animation of every each character through Progression and In-game patches through Reworks?

It's certainly possible to do as you suggest. Realistically each and every weapon model has it's unique characteristics and idiosyncrasies and no two weapons are used exactly the same.

But since CP2077 shouldn't be centered around combat (it's FAR to lethal in CP2020) unless CDPR decides to adopt typical shooter/FPS game mechanics ... which means CP2077 won't be "classic Cyberpunk" but "yet another shooter", which will annoy the hell out of us die hard types ... I wouldn't expect enough firearms combat in CP2077 to get bored of it.

Strangely enough however I see LOTS of opportunities for less-than-leathal bar brawls, street gang fights, petty muggers, etc. in the setting.

 

[exogenesis09]

It's certainly possible to do as you suggest. Realistically each and every weapon has it's unique characteristics and idiosyncrasies and no two weapons are used exactly the same.

But since CP2077 shouldn't be centered around combat (it's FAR to lethal in CP2020) unless CDPR decides to adopt typical shooter/FPS game mechanics ... which means CP2077 won't be "classic Cyberpunk" but "yet another shooter", which will annoy the hell out of us die hard types ... I wouldn't expect much firearms combat in CP2077, not enough to get bored of it.

Strangely enough however I see LOTS of opportunities for less-than-leathal bar brawls, street gang fights, petty muggers, etc. in the setting.

Damn, I guess that first trailer with cybernetic Girl that looks specialized on melee&close range combat is all just for show. I wish not. I’m expecting to be like something both where cybernatic will be more tougher to use in the game (means more fun for us right?) than just shooting & stealthing.

I really do like to have a Cybernetic Character that specialized on melee/close range combat on this game on future that can block/reflect bullets but also I’m hoping some mechanics on the game that it will not be that overpowered for the Shooter Fans/Shooter Characters.

 

[Suhiira]

Damn, I guess that first trailer with cybernetic Girl that looks specialized on melee&close range combat is all just for show. I wish not.

She's not a "military" or "police" grade cyborg. She's a young (presumably) fashion conscious conscious member of the "elite" (or the child/wife of an elite) with enough money to indulge her every whim and a lack of knowledge, appreciation, or "gives a damn about others" of the possible consequences of her conversion. She did a wonderful job of cutting down unarmed, and unarmored civilians but wasn't up to dealing with the professionals once they arrived on scene. This is somehow surprising? As a civilian member of the elite her mantra is "Style over Substance" ... I think she did that surprisingly well. Civilians almost always think they know better then the authorities ... or do I live on a different real-life planet then the one you reside on?

I’m expecting to be like something both where cybernatic will be more tougher to use in the game (means more fun for us right?) than just shooting & stealthing.

I assure you if CP2077 turns out to be little more then a Cyberpunk themed shooter I, for one, won't bother buying it.
So here I agree wholeheartedly.

I really do like to have a Cybernetic Character that specialized on melee/close range combat on this game on future that can block/reflect bullets but also I’m hoping some mechanics on the game that it will not be that overpowered for the Shooter Fans/Shooter Characters.

Sorry ... but if you look around a bit you'll find I've discussed why (physics wise) the ability of a human size/mass person to be be bullet proof is pure fantasy, which I think has no place in CP2077. And dodging bullets is ever further into the realm of fantasy.

If this sort of thing appeals strongly to you I recommend you pick up a copy of "Shadowrun". I devoutly hope such things have no place in a CP2077 based on the pretty damn realistic, i.e. good Science Fiction, CP2020 PnP.