Do you even want roles?

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I really want roles if the roles offer a different approach to solve every problem - to be fair CDPR might being the only ones who can do that satisfyingly in a game right now.
 
Yes I want roles. I agree with some of the earlier posts that different prologues based on the role you choose would be a nice touch. Having said that, I'm not sure all the roles are very conducive to a RPG video game. Specifically I think Media, Rockerboy and Fixer are limiting in regards to game play. They would all make awesome NPCs and should be in the game, but I think Solo, Cop, Nomad, Netrunner, Techie and Corporate should be the roles the PC can fill.

As others have said, this shouldn't mean that you are limited to only doing things related to that role, but that you have a natural propensity towards some things based on role and have a starting prologue story dealing with that role ... as well as some role specific quests during the main game. It should also effect how various factions view you at the start of the game.
 
Right from start you design your character, new arrival in Night City. Then you set up your basic stats and skills.
Then enter lifepaths, with a shitload of customization and bonuses/penalties, similar to traits ( in Arcanum) with extra dialogue options ( in certain situations). There will be certain events/quests in the world, based on your choices. Or choose blank slate.
From that point on you have Five basic areas to improve: combat, stealth, hacking, diplomacy and support. Open system like the one
in TES, but no redundant skills and far stronger emphasis on specialization.

Over time your "class" becomes your basic faction choice, in a way crossover between Gothic and Skyrim.
You can join ( only one) dependent on your skill level, stats, reputation, or quest requirements.
You want a crazy, wild life in Night City's clubs...go rockerboy. Or you think that preserving authority and order is more important: become a cop.
Or, if you can't sign up with anyone, join fixers or the media...they take just about anybody. :p
Each faction's storyline would be focused on characterization of that role and it's place in Cyberpunk world. As you advance ( in storyline, no become the guildmaster nonsense), you also gain access to specific implants, equipment, faction benefits ( for example, Nomad can really earn the ability to call for back up) and perks that derive and benefit that style of roleplaying.

That, in my opinion, would be best combination for a game set in sandbox ( gameplay and progression systems have to be less rigid and more open, as the world) based on Cyberpunk 2020 ( rpg classes, lifestyles) and designed by CDPR ( proven to be best at storytelling, characterization).
 
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Zagor-Te-Nay;n8129800 said:
Right from start you design your character, new arrival in Night City. Then you set up your basic stats and skills.
Then enter lifepaths, with a shitload of customization and bonuses/penalties, similar to traits ( in Arcanum) with extra dialogue options ( in certain situations). There will be certain events/quests in the world, based on your choices. Or choose blank slate.

I liked it up until blank slate. No Cpunk character is a blank slate - the Lifepath is what happened to you whether you wanted it to or not. Typically, it's random.

Zagor-Te-Nay;n8129800 said:
From that point on you have Five basic areas to improve: combat, stealth, hacking, diplomacy and support. Open system like the one
in TES, but no redundant skills and far stronger emphasis on specialization.

You can group the skills into this, or just use the stat-based skills as is. Reflexes, Int, Empathy, etc. Redundant skills are tough to avoid without losing on flavour. "All martial arts are the same effect!" etc.

Perhaps have skills that are similar ( Hide vs Stealth) but do represent different aspects (Hiding is passive when you stop and crouch, Stealth shows you vision cones or shades the best places to move to to avoid vision).

Zagor-Te-Nay;n8129800 said:
Over time your "class" becomes your basic faction choice, in a way crossover between Gothic and Skyrim. You can join ( only one) dependent on your skill level, stats, reputation, or quest requirements.
You want a crazy, wild life in Night City's clubs...go rockerboy. Or you think that preserving authority and order is more important: become a cop.

Nah, I don't like this. Your Role is important at the start, because that's Who You Were. Going forward you can pick up different skills and jobs, but your Role is what you came from and affects how you see and act from then on. If we have Roles that aren't merely cosmetic. I'd have no issue with a Role change.

Roles aren't factions, either. Not a fan of that. Corp Cops and NCPD are not the same faction, don't hang in the same bars, have very much in common other than a skillset. Lots of actual factions in game, too.

Plus, anyone can and should have a crazy wild life in Night City. At least once.

Zagor-Te-Nay;n8129800 said:
That, in my opinion, would be best combination for a game set in sandbox ( gameplay and progression systems have to be less rigid and more open, as the world) based on Cyberpunk 2020 ( rpg classes, lifestyles) and designed by CDPR ( proven to be best at storytelling, characterization).

Cpunk barely has RPG classes. One skill and some starting skills. That's it. You can totally be Forensic Accountant Rockerboy. Right out of the gate, if you want. That said, whatever Role you are or in-team role you do end up being, (fixer, hacker, killer, etc), focus on it.

We don't know if it's a sandbox or what that even means. I read this piece here: http://www.pcgamer.com/what-open-wo...-from-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/

Quite interesting and some good points. I'm hoping for a more living, breathing setting, but we'll see.

I really want CP2020 method, which is similar to yours, only without the faction bit. Stats and skills, Lifepath, starting Role. Quests based on those choices. I'd just add that you can change that later is all.

 
Keep in mind in Cyberpunk your role/class means there's one. one, thing you do better then anyone else. There are zero restrictions on what skills you can learn/use. But that one thing you will be better at. So in essence it's a classless system already.
 
Suhiira;n8131370 said:
Keep in mind in Cyberpunk your role/class means there's one. one, thing you do better then anyone else. There are zero restrictions on what skills you can learn/use. But that one thing you will be better at. So in essence it's a classless system already.

/thread
 
The system that Cyberpunk uses is in my mind how it should be.

And if I look at my favorit pnp rpg's that I play, this is more or less the kind of system that they have. Where your choicen role basicly gives you the general idea of where your character tended to work in befor "now" (the point where you start to play the character), but where you are compleatly free to give your character what ever skill you want to, even if they happend to be outside of the general lines that said role usually work inside.

Cyberpunks system would work perfect for me too, since in all pnp rpg's I have played, no matter what type of character I have made, I have always made sure that they where atleast good at combat as well... so that they could defend them selves if needed. Granted, I don't often make many characters outside or warriors, or outside of other types which are close to warriors (hunters, thives/thugs, etc)... but when I do, then they will always be a hybrid between their choicen role/class/profession and some kind of a warrior.
 
Sardukhar;n8130390 said:
I liked it up until blank slate. No Cpunk character is a blank slate - the Lifepath is what happened to you whether you wanted it to or not. Typically, it's random.



You can group the skills into this, or just use the stat-based skills as is. Reflexes, Int, Empathy, etc. Redundant skills are tough to avoid without losing on flavour. "All martial arts are the same effect!" etc.

Perhaps have skills that are similar ( Hide vs Stealth) but do represent different aspects (Hiding is passive when you stop and crouch, Stealth shows you vision cones or shades the best places to move to to avoid vision).



Nah, I don't like this. Your Role is important at the start, because that's Who You Were. Going forward you can pick up different skills and jobs, but your Role is what you came from and affects how you see and act from then on. If we have Roles that aren't merely cosmetic. I'd have no issue with a Role change.

Roles aren't factions, either. Not a fan of that. Corp Cops and NCPD are not the same faction, don't hang in the same bars, have very much in common other than a skillset. Lots of actual factions in game, too.

Plus, anyone can and should have a crazy wild life in Night City. At least once.



Cpunk barely has RPG classes. One skill and some starting skills. That's it. You can totally be Forensic Accountant Rockerboy. Right out of the gate, if you want. That said, whatever Role you are or in-team role you do end up being, (fixer, hacker, killer, etc), focus on it.

We don't know if it's a sandbox or what that even means. I read this piece here: http://www.pcgamer.com/what-open-wo...-from-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/

Quite interesting and some good points. I'm hoping for a more living, breathing setting, but we'll see.

I really want CP2020 method, which is similar to yours, only without the faction bit. Stats and skills, Lifepath, starting Role. Quests based on those choices. I'd just add that you can change that later is all.

We're speculating here on loose information, at best...but so far they've indicated sandbox is very much possibility( enter the story to extent you want, job positions, Night City as central place, etc).
One of biggest appeal of sandbox game is more freedom and full control to shape your character in direction you choose...picking your role at the start, not sure how they'll be able to deliver this over the course of entire game, of this size. Usually this ends with very "thin" reactivity, even with far more smaller and linear games with <far> less variables.
Whatever they decide, they need to learn from mistakes of Witcher( linear loot/leveling/upgrade systems in an open world)...gameplay/progression systems have to be based on same principles as the type of game it takes place in.
 
Yeah, the old classic "leveled loot" just doesn't fit into Cyberpunk at all.
It's a matter of finding someone selling what you want and being able to afford it not if you're X-Level.

The other thing is the whole concept doesn't really fit. What are they going to do ... limit you to light handguns and shotguns at the beginning of the game? And please Please PLEASE none of that nonsense from The Division where weapons and gear improve incrementally. Gear is what it is by design, you want a better set of sights buy (or steal) some and have them mounted.
 
Yes I do want roles. Damn stupid question being asked-answered for 8 pages...
They should work in the same vein as character "class" in The Age of Decadence or partly Dragon Age: Origins, i.e. every beginning for each role is different but revolves around one story event + role-specific perk. I see no better option for a video game format.
 
metalmaniac21;n8153590 said:
Yes I do want roles. Damn stupid question being asked-answered for 8 pages...

Damn stupid thing to say, unless you're trying to get in trouble. Just because you want or don't want something, or see stupid questions everywhere, doesn't mean they are.

On a more CP2020 note, this question has long been debated amongst Refs. Wisdom, who created Interlock Unlimited, the best Cyberpunk 2020 set of fixed-rules, pretty much diluted the effect of Roles completely. A not-uncommon solution to the question, "but, WHY can't my cop be an ex-soldier with Combat Sense? I get in as many or more firefights as the military!"
 
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If the function of the roles is sripped, there's no point in having them at all. I also disagree with the notion that the roles were but "a single skill", they stood for much more - roleplayingwise - and mechanically they can too... on a computer game. I always viewed them as "little cousins" of the DnD classes with far less restrictions, but still as a defining elements of the character you wanted to play. There was leeway, but a Rockerboy, Media, or a Corp would have hard time turning into a solo or cop and vice versa. There were IP multipliers for that (to my recollection).

So yeah. There should be roles, as per CP2020. Most definitely. And they should carry weight significant enough to warrant their exisitence in the gameplay; i.e. not left as mere cosmetics or footnotes on a characterscreen.
 
kofeiiniturpa;n8163520 said:
There was leeway, but a Rockerboy, Media, or a Corp would have hard time turning into a solo or cop and vice versa. There were IP multipliers for that (to my recollection).
Nope. In Core it flat-out couldn't be done. Solo or Cop forever. Doesn't matter if you get a job as a Managing Director for Arasaka or as a CSWAT detective, if you start as a Solo, you stay that way.

Again, other than the Special Ability, a Media could have more combat skills than a Solo. Thompson, the Media in the Core Book is ex-military and carries the heaviest firepower in the story.

Game-wise, it was nothing more than a single skill and a starting package. That was it. Later books added more Roles that further diluted this, as the Roles had more crossover packages and Special Abilities that were more hybrid in nature.

Flavour-wise, the idea that you were one Role was always kind of dumb and a holdover from DnD. The main characters like Johnny, Thompson, Alt themselves show multiple Roles in design and action.

"I'm a netrunner...but I'm a Corporate netrunner..so do I have Resources or Interface? Or both? I mean, I can do both..."

Most Refs allow a secondary and tertiary Role, just because the basic rule made little sense. Roleplaying or game wise.
 
I always viewed roles in CP2020 more as guidelines more then anything.

OK, you're a Solo who's working for a Corp. Chances are you're more results oriented then the average Corp as a result of your Solo mindset ... Accomplish the Mission. And probably somewhat less concerned with CYA and office politics.
 
Don't see, on a scale of this game, how roles like rockerboy, fixer, etc could be implemented...we're talking well over a hundred quests in a ( likely) massive sandbox game. They'll likely go for Deus Ex approach ( if we're lucky, they might just pull it off).
Only in quest lines, in specific designed for it, they could play out like in PnP games. And this is where CDPR's storytelling would bring something new to the table, when it comes to characterization of that role( not unlike they did with Witcher "class")...in a sense, this would be a further "specialization" when it comes to rpg progression.
Otherwise, it would likely end up with something so "thin", to be virtually pointless ( eh, did I just agree with kofeii? :grumbles)

Plus this is where "seamless" Multiplayer would kick in: questlines of different roles interconnected at specific points and each leading to events only visible from another role's perspective. Butterfly effect. For full picture of this tapestry of events in Night City, you'd have to play ALL roles...somewhat simiIar to Witcher II ( going on a much larger, complex scale).
(GTA IV had something similar, if I remember)
Would make a case for incredibly strong worldbuilding and moral ambiguity...different roles, different lifestyles, different perspectives: no cut out good/bad actions and effects down the line.
Imagine going back to guilds in Elder Scrolls after this. :p
 
Zagor-Te-Nay;n8165490 said:
( eh, did I just agree with kofeii? :grumbles)

Just let it sink in. Little by little you'll see the light. It's like antibiotics, it might make you nauseaus at first, but you know it's good for you at the end of the day. ;)

Sardukhar;n8164500 said:
Nope. In Core it flat-out couldn't be done. Solo or Cop forever. Doesn't matter if you get a job as a Managing Director for Arasaka or as a CSWAT detective, if you start as a Solo, you stay that way.

I think that's the way it should be. Unless the campaign takes years during which time the character "re-educates" himself the same way his past made him a solo/corp/cop/media/whoever the player decided him to be (with that special ability and ease of learning on relevant skills).
 
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Roles are fun to make new chars and try all possible builds for each class. Path of Exile has the same skill tree for all classes, with the only difference being where characters start on said skill tree. Depends on what CDPR has in mind when it comes to skills and skill trees. I do like skill trees very much and specializing in 1 or 2 is fun. Like a Geralt who goes for swords and alchemy or signs and swords. They did really well in witcher 3 even tho the limit was quite low. I expect a lot more skills in a bigger game with customizable chars compared to one that has a preset char with defined characteristics.
 
SarahAustin;n8194080 said:
Depends on what CDPR has in mind when it comes to skills and skill trees.
At this point we have no reason to think CP2077 will have skill trees.
It's based on 1980's Pen-n-paper RPG, there's a sizable list of skills you can choose from, each of which has 10 levels.

While certain skills may have prerequisites (i.e. you need a certain amount of math to take physics) for the most part it's take what you want when you want.
 
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Suhiira;n8196180 said:
At this point we have no reason to think CP2077 will have skill trees.
It's based on 1980's Pen-n-paper RPG, there's a sizable list of skills you can choose from, each of which has 10 levels.

While certain skills may have prerequisites (i.e. you need a certain amount of math to take physics) for the most part it's take what you want when you want.

We are in 2017. I dont think 1980s styles will matter that much. After all, the times have changed on how people want to play games.
 
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