Martial Arts in 2077.

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

I'm thinking of something similar to Bloodborne/Souls approach...variety of playstyle's depending on your weapon, while being simple and easy to use, so it flows well with gun play.
Basic light and heavy attack combo, focus on quality and how each weapon plays differently with specific dis/advantage.
Whip: disarm/AoE stagger, Knife: Piercing attacks/Backstab, Power glove: Stun/Knockback, Nunchakas: speed, etc.
Unarmed? I'm not seeing it functional on anything more than unarmored opponents unless you have spec equipment , but style should feel brutal, to the point, dirty even...regular streetfighting. ( Please no spinning in combat!)
Plus special techniques for classic gunplay: (dual wielding) pistols, shotgun, sniper, etc.

 

[Yorumushi]

No Title

I'm writing this at 4:47 so sorry if this seems a bit disorganized and not useful, I'm going to sleep after posting this, I swear...

1. Which Martial Arts/Face-punching styles would you like to see in CP2077. Weapons included, of course. Try to leave room for other people to list, so don't list more than, say, your favourite five. FIVE. I know you'll disobey anyway, you bastards. Re-list to support others, of course.

..1. Knife and Baton combat. Escrima and such.
..2. Verbal Judo. I'd love to be able to defuse a situation with talking. Even if, or especially if, I'd only be able to go all "English, Motherfucker, do you speak it?" thanks to not being a rockerboy.
..3. Clinchwork. You know this from boxing and muay thai.
..4. Powerful, squared up stand up à la Bas Rutten, but with cool choreography. Hits that look like they hurt a lot, done to the "beat" of the best chinese kung-fu cinema.
..5. Throws from Judo and Aikido. It's just a beautiful thing to watch these, and you could get to look back to the room you just cleared, and see people thrown on the furniture, thrown trough windows, and laying on the remains of the broken gazebo where they landed from the second floor.

2.HOW. How would you like to see them implement melee, including hand to hand. Grappling could be a real challenge. Batman-AA style? Gothic-style swordfights? Witcher-style? 1 or 2? And why would you pick this method. Do you have any control scheme examples?

I love dark souls. I love fighting games. I really love Jedi Knight series. I love grappling. I also love movie one-liners. So these mind maps are the result of sitting on my ass this night and hammering out my dream games controls for xbox controller.

Notable things:
There are 4 different modes of combat:
Freeform "High awareness" third person combat which allows freely attacking anything around the player character.
Targeted duel combat that unlocks directional attacks to get pass enemy guard more easily, directed banter.
Ground Combat that includes grappling and fighting from ground
"Control" mode, which includes stuff like clinch, taking a meatshield and throws

Light, heavy and guard break attacks can be combo-ed with each other.
All these combos can be ended in "control", which means throwing, meatshields, clinchwork.

Movement
Movement is free, and you can freely interact with environment.

Interaction
Mid fight banter and talking is something I'd love to see in a game. Here's hoping the new Torment delivers...
"High" Interaction: Go above obstacles, prompt different interaction theme from "Low".
"Low" Interaction: Take cover behind obstacles, prompt different interaction theme from "High".


If anyone is interested, take a gander at the most colorful mindmap picture there. It's the root of all my worries right now. It's also the only one with precise controls written out, the other mindmaps are just ideas what that mindmaps particular mode should include, and not how the controls would work for it.

Edit.
Seems like the attachments don't look any good, or are not in any way readable easily, so here's an imgur link to the same: http://imgur.com/a/vK2v5

 

[s3n3r]

Hi everybody,

I stumbled on this forum after browsing for some info on witcher 3 (kudos cd projekt) and was reading this post. Now I can't wait for cyberpunk to be release!!!

I couldn't help but notice that most of you were referencing to "human" martial art of the 2015!

At the same time the more i was reading the more this post made me think of gunnm. If you haven't read it please do so. It's in the future, involves martial art and a female cyborg. To CD Project Red, even if it s probably too late, and even if the story of cyberpunk is already written, I can't help but advise you to read GUNNM, especially the chapters "killing angel" wich depict fights in the future with cyborgs. It's a work from Yukito Kushiro.

it might not be allowed but here's a link to read it online http://www.mangaeden.com/en/en-manga/battle-angel-alita/13/1/ (buy the books if you like it).

What I'm trying to say I guess is to keep in mind that it s about enhanced people that are fighting, so a basic punch might not be relevant if the adversary is 99% titanium.



Besides this weird intro (sorry about that), I think to answer the initial questions:
- fighting style : jet Kun do, aikido, and panzer kunst (reference to gunnm)
there shouldnt be on the ground fight if it's cyborg fighting, rather body part removed (snatch a cyborgs arms for exemple)

- and for games that has a fight mechanics that I like, I would say in this case choosing from fighting games should be best (street fight, tekken, soulcalibur...), since they are specifically design for it.

- and since it s a cyberpunk with cyborgs in the future, adding a slow mo system (max pain type) could work well. for instance fight between cyborg should be fast, very fast, hence something that simulates the processing power should be implement (with over locking, and over heating, etc...)

i hope this humble post provides inspiration.
Cheers all

 

[Corewolf]

The thing about Melee combat and "Martial Arts" is that "Martial Arts" even in MMA, those systems still have rules and things you can and can't do. In an actual street fight, you probably aren't going to get down to a "grappling" thing, and fights aren't going to last more than 3 or 4 seconds once melee starts simply because of the fact that when fighting for your life, things like breaking bones, gouging eyes and fighting extremely dirty come into play. If some asshole tries to tackle me or otherwise grapple, my thumbs are going into his eyes, if I can get to a knife it is going across his throat. Foot or other body part to the privates, teeth into whatever they can reach.

Melee shouldn't be some MMA drawn out affair, at least not in my opinion if we are looking at levels or realism. Even Krav Maga, which is probably the most applicable "martial art" is less a sport art like karate or boxing and more a "here is how you can disable/kill someone as fast as possible"

Dodge the punch, gouge his eyes, hit his balls, or break his arm and then stomp his face into the curb as many times as necessary till it is paste.

 

[Suhiira]

Yep, this is one of many things far to many people assume movies do "right". Real hand-to-hand combat lasts a few seconds, at most, and while knowledge of fancy martial arts is useful anything but basic moves rarely comes into play. In a real fight you're not wearing a gi, usually you're weighed down with 5-50kg of weapons, armor, equipment so even performing many martial arts moves is next to impossible.

Do we want the "realism" CP2020 generally tries to portray or "Street Fighter" 2077?

 

[Yorumushi]

A continuation on the control scheme idea above now that I have some freetime:

The basic barebone "combat loop" in this scheme of mine would be "control"->attack->"Control"->Attack->etc.

Every time player attacks they would be looking for a way to "destroy" the enemy. To destroy an enemy, you'd have to throw them on, over, or against something, shoot them, break parts of them, knock them out, disable them with a hit that disturbs organs, choke them, use contextual attacks based on your surroundings or command them to surrender.

In order to get into the destruction phase(without weapons), the player needs to take down the enemy fighting ability, be it just the hitpoints they have, or in addition their stamina and defenses. Hitpoints are taken down with attacks either out or in "control", stamina is depleted and defenses are subverted by footwork and positioning of player or enemy from "control".

The whole idea behind this control scheme is that when the hectic combat is over and you look back to the battlefield, it looks like a scene from an action movie set. People strewn across the landscape, thrown on and trough things, blood splattered all over the place, things destroyed after being used to destroy enemies of the hero. All this tells a story how the combat flowed trough the place, and destruction followed.

I love dark souls, but it's a static ball of violence, where you keep at the same place, dodging the enemy attack and whittling his hp until he just drops dead there after the 10th to 50th swing.

Skyrim and all the other bethesda games are just a weird conga line where the player runs backwards and swings his weapons until the enemies just fall down like they tripped.

Instead of those, the fight would have a constant ebb and flow of "control" and attack. The henchman guard wouldn't be defeated because the player got the 5th hit in, but because there was locked door and the entrance to the enemy lair would be quite impressive if the player used one of the henchmen as battering ram in order to destroy the henchman, the door and the morale of other henchmen.

I'll stop now.

 

[Mk3rd]

I could really care less about what specific Martial Arts technique is going to be in the game. Anything that's already suggested here would be awesome. What I'm interested in is how they're gonna implement the same control scheme for each style while keeping them distinctive from one another. I was thinking of the rapidness of MGSV's melee and grapple game while keeping the Sleeping Dogs feel to it only without the soft lock. TW3 blurred the lines between feeling like you're directing an action movie during combat and roleplaying so I hope I'll get the same feeling in CP2077 only better in giving each of my actions meaning.

Combo breaks could also be great. Where an enemy would start a string on a player and with the right timing you could reverse one of his attacks mid combo(If you're not stunned).

 

[RLKing1969]

Great suggestions, guys. I like how the CP 2020 PNP game handled it: with difficulty ratings (Based both on how much training it takes to learn and how difficult it is to find instructors.) Let's face it, You could probably quite easily find a TKD/Karate/Judo/Jiu-jutsu/Boxing/wrestling school just about anywhere... whereas learning REAL Ninjuitsu...That might be a lot more daunting. A suggestion I HAVEN'T heard yet is "S.C.A.R.S" (Though, admittedly, Krav Magha is a close cousin.). The reason I bring this up is: Think about how many combat veterans there are. S.C.A.R.S is the basic style soldiers are taught. What is it? A "Mutt style" composed of grappling moves from wrestling and judo, basic strikes and kicks from boxing and Karate with some knife and Bayonette (Spear) training thrown in for good measure.

 

[drona.667]

Cyberpunk 2020 actually have an interesting system regarding martial arts. Like in this:
http://cyberpunk.asia/artmart.php?lng=us#ma10
http://mehrkat.tripod.com/worldofdarkness/CP2020-MA.html
Although Idk the full details & haven't tried it myself, but it's just an interesting concept if it's implemented in CP2077

Will Cyberpunk 2077 have a martial arts system aside from character build RPG elements & gunplay??
- If it's not. Do you guys want it?

- If it's yes. What would be a great way to implemented this system & animation especially since CP2077 is a first person perspective game.

In my own personal vision on this. It would be like a mix of Insurgency (tactical) + FEAR (bullet time) + Titanfall 2 (martial arts & parkour). So maybe the martial arts aspect would be certain moveset to choose from different martial arts (for bare handed) & melee weapons. earlier 48 minutes gameplay seems already tactical enough which I hope there is no RNG bullet spread (mean bullet travel where you point) & RPG character build is the key elements to improve handling weapon sway & recoil instead. Add to the "bullet time" system that similar to FEAR game in which I hope its has great physics too. With this, the overall combat could be very well balance a lot more on player skills.

 

[Sild]

I'd love a proper martial arts system but it would be too much to hope for i think..

The closest thing to martial arts i'm expecting to see would be during stealth takedowns, any more would be icing on the cake.

 

[atomowyturysta]

It would be hard to implement anything more than a basic HtH in first person game (or any game that is not a beatem up for that matter), maybe different MA styles could give certain bonuses and drawbacks. Or maybe it should be realistic - if you're martial artist, stay away from proficient brawlers

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Well, I've never seen interesting FPP melee (perhaps because of the lack of maai in FPP), so my hopes aren't high.

 

[atomowyturysta]

Well, I've never seen interesting FPP melee (perhaps because of the lack of maai in FPP), so my hopes aren't high.

Actually, Kingdom Come has a pretty great melee system. Something similar, more arcadey and flashy would do the trick.

 

[ZenzouTarven]

Actually, Kingdom Come has a pretty great melee system. Something similar, more arcadey and flashy would do the trick.

The foundation and idea behind it was good, but the actual execution was terrible in my opinion. But that might as well sum up my whole experience with Kingdom Come. The biggest problem, i think, is the locking system, which makes fighting more than one or two enemies a bloody nightmare.
I agree though, that taking the ideas of KCD as an inspiriation is a good idea for a FPP-Melee-System that doesn't feel "tacked-on".

 

[Suhiira]

Cyberpunk 2020 actually have an interesting system regarding martial arts.

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Will Cyberpunk 2077 have a martial arts system aside from character build RPG elements & gunplay??
- If it's not. Do you guys want it?

I doubt CP2077 will have a Martial Arts System.

That sort of thing is what the "Street Fighter" games are for. CDPR tying to implement such a system in the essentially uncontrolled environment of an open world game would be a programmers worst nightmare, and that doesn't take into account needing to dedicate a fair number of the very limited amount of buttons/toggles available on a controller to it thus severely limiting other game control/UI access/manipulation options, or players needing to learn/memorize the various combos they'll use maybe a dozen or so times during the course of the game.

Also, while CP2020's Martial Arts system looks good on paper it's a pain-in-the-ass to play the game with, many limited use special moves that only apply on rare occasions and given the extremely limited number of skill point CP2020 uses far to expensive for what it's worth.

So put me down as "Not a fan" of the idea.

 

[Sild]

Actually, Kingdom Come has a pretty great melee system. Something similar, more arcadey and flashy would do the trick.

hmm.. now that you mention it something like that could work with hand to hand combat as well..

The foundation and idea behind it was good, but the actual execution was terrible in my opinion. But that might as well sum up my whole experience with Kingdom Come. The biggest problem, i think, is the locking system, which makes fighting more than one or two enemies a bloody nightmare.
I agree though, that taking the ideas of KCD as an inspiriation is a good idea for a FPP-Melee-System that doesn't feel "tacked-on".

To be fair the locking on part is much better now than it was on release, i actually managed to switch and block successfully a few times even.

Post automatically merged: Dec 17, 2018

CDPR tying to implement such a system in the essentially uncontrolled environment of an open world game would be a programmers worst nightmare

But there are precedents of this, Sleeping Dogs springs to mind as an excellent blend of open world and hand to hand martial arts.

 

[Snowflakez]

I don't think we need a full martial arts system, but an unarmed skill would be nice. It could be simple, straightforward brawling, with just a couple new techniques added as it levels up. I.E. you can now try to do a leg sweep, or you can tackle your foes.

 

[BarefootWarrior]

Interesting topic. I think having a martial arts system would be suitable for this environment. Already mentioned, 'Sleeping Dogs' did some excellent work with this in the game. I didn't even pick up a weapon till very late in the game. I suppose it is a matter of how well martial arts would fit in this environment (city) and how it could be used with the various platforms, that is, PC / console. I would very much like to see some form of martial arts in 2077. In any game, I have always tried to use stealth instead of going in guns blazing and even though some may think this may not work in this game, I (and I'm sure others) would like to have that option if possible.

 

[atomowyturysta]

The foundation and idea behind it was good, but the actual execution was terrible in my opinion. But that might as well sum up my whole experience with Kingdom Come. The biggest problem, i think, is the locking system, which makes fighting more than one or two enemies a bloody nightmare.
I agree though, that taking the ideas of KCD as an inspiriation is a good idea for a FPP-Melee-System that doesn't feel "tacked-on".

That's realistic Fighting with more than two opponents IS a bloody nightmare

 

[Suhiira]

That's realistic Fighting with more than two opponents IS a bloody nightmare

In reality fighting more then one is.

I hate Hollywood.