Cover based system

[Sardukhar]

HA! As an old Counterstrike player, GoW is clumsy and static, yeah. As for difficulty, that depends on either a) number of enemies or b) skill of the other players at this clumsy and static play. Controllers are so inaccurate anyway, hyper speed and precision are nearly impossible to accomplish.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

I think we need a crouch button.

But the world should be designed realistically, so no chest-high walls all around.

Pretty much this.

Sticky cover ( Gears, Mass Effect II...) are more reliable( for shooting) and easier to use , but feel too "gimmicky" for this setting and can be problematic when switching to other actions( stealth, remote hack, melee, etc).
Soft lock ( Quantum Break, latest Mass Effect, Tomb Raider) are more "organic", but even the best have occasional issues in not working properly. And require 100% precision in design of controls and targeting system( and CDPR still has issues there).
But they make gameplay a bit less engaging( already half the work is done without player input)...you really don't want that in a 100 hours+ game and with high emphasis on replayability.
Both types have drawbacks on level design and "stiffling" down gameplay ( cover equals safe zone), narrowing down your options.
Think Cyberpunk should have a bit more "grounded" combat than regular TPS( lightning fast, pop-a-mole, mowing down hordes on enemies in rapid turns), focus on doing exactly the opposite ( and contextual actions of Witcher): Give fullest control to the player.
As many movement options and ability to attack/shoot from as many positions ( also promoting more playstyle versatility: lighter/smaller weapons not packing as much punch, but can be used in greater variety of situations)...let player adapt on his own to a given situation, but give us options.

And outside of combat, this would also translate into stronger player connection to his own character...one of main goals for a sandbox.

 

[Suhiira]

I'd rather see an automatic cover option. If your during combat your character is close enough to an object they automatically take cover UNLESS you hold down (or tap) some key/button telling them not to, so you can run past objects during combat and not be automatically ducking behind them.

Note your character automatically takes cover unless you disable the option.

No one, even non-solos, survives more then a couple street fights without learning to take and use cover.

That said, I do not want to see artificial cover on the maps as with so many games, what's there is there, your character will us it. I also don't want to see plastic boxes bouncing bullets like they were tank armor.

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

This is a tough one. I thing I don't like about consoles is that controllers somewhat limit game design with the limited number of buttons. This is sort of why developers thought of soft lock cover mechanics because they wanted the player to be able to be more mobile and have cover. The problem is soft lock cover mechanics usually are pretty terrible. When game has a dedicated cover button the game lacks mobility or has different actions on the same button causing some occasional weird clunkiness(cough Mass Effect trilogy). Really tough I don't I think I have the answer for this one.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I'd rather see an automatic cover option. If your during combat your character is close enough to an object they automatically take cover UNLESS you hold down (or tap) some key/button telling them not to, so you can run past objects during combat and not be automatically ducking behind them.

Isn't that a bit counterintuitive, having to keep eye of the controls to prevent an action from happening rather than making it happen when desired? Kind of like using the WASD keys to stop the characer and preventin the him from running down a cliff on his own initiative.

 

[Suhiira]

Isn't that a bit counterintuitive, having to keep eye of the controls to prevent an action from happening rather than making it happen when desired? Kind of like using the WASD keys to stop the characer and preventin the him from running down a cliff on his own initiative.

It's certainly counter to the norm. But this way you don't have to worry if you're close enough to the cover or be constantly having to hit or hold down a key/button maintain cover.

 

[SarahGabriella]

It's certainly counter to the norm. But this way you don't have to worry if you're close enough to the cover or be constantly having to hit or hold down a key/button maintain cover.

Sounds stupid. I rather that crouch on button pressed or held than automate this kind of stuff.

 

[Sardukhar]

Sounds stupid. I rather that crouch on button pressed or held than automate this kind of stuff.

God yes. I'm using auto-cover in Mass Effect Andromeda. Sucks so hard.

 

[Suhiira]

God yes. I'm using auto-cover in Mass Effect Andromeda. Sucks so hard.

OK, what sux about it?
Seems to me that logically it makes sense, obviously there's something I'm missing, what?
Is it just a matter of it being different from what's seen in most games? That in-and-of-itself isn't really a problem, different game, different controls, just because something is more-or-less standardized doesn't make it good.

 

[Sardukhar]

OK, what sux about it?
Seems to me that logically it makes sense, obviously there's something I'm missing, what?
Is it just a matter of it being different from what's seen in most games? That in-and-of-itself isn't really a problem, different game, different controls, just because something is more-or-less standardized doesn't make it good.

It's a couple things. One, I don't always want to go to cover - sometimes I'd rather move up and keep shooting. Two, it may put you in standing cover when you'd like to crouch, ( if you're beside two cover points, it'll force you to the nearest) because there is a guy near you firing on your flank. Three, it interrupts your movement patterns and screws your timing up something fierce.

Crouching is one button press. Autocover tries to think for you and sucks.

 

[Suhiira]

It's a couple things.

OK I can see your points ... as long as it's a single button press to take cover ... no need to continuously hold it ... I'm fine.

Trouble is a lot of (most?) times control schemes are made with controllers in mind and mouse & keyboard interface requires some creative gymnastics, not so much with CDPRs games but still a far to common problem.

 

[Sardukhar]

Trouble is a lot of (most?) times control schemes are made with controllers in mind and mouse & keyboard interface requires some creative gymnastics, not so much with CDPRs games but still a far to common problem.

Yeah, the controller issue is a HUGE reason why many control schemes since, what, 2005 or so? Are total crap. And why things like auto cover, auto-jump, auto-pickyournose are common. Only so many buttons on that controller after all.

 

[tropit9]

i love controller in games. cdpr nade a really good seamless transition between keybored and gamepad, so i can fight with controller but switch and use potions with keybored. then thers the mass effect 3 which had not controller support on pc, and inqusition which had a lock between gamepad and keybored (like win witcher 2)

as for auto cover, yeah i prefer a button for taking cover, a reasponsive well functioning over auto one any day.

 

[Bondaebu]

I think the cover system is unnecessary at all. this game is a open world game isn't it? I mean, the 'Cover-able object' in all around will be a big obstacle to make realistic environment on open world. of course this game will include first-person view.

And second, The game balance will depend on combat system. You should be able to fight everywhere, every environment including wasteland. because It is a open world game. Wasteland don't have any object you can cover. So, how you will fight against enemies balanced basing on cover system? They will have unbelievably accurate shooting, deadly strong damage as compared general open world enemies.

As a result, I think 'The cover system' is not fit for the open world based game. But maybe, you could just put the system in the game not heavily. like GTA V.

 

[Suhiira]

Ummmm ... this is Cyberpunk not Mad Max.

Night City is located in the Pacific Northwest ... hills ... trees ... LOTS of rain ... so the "wasteland" you're thinking of doesn't exist in the immediate area.

 

[Bondaebu]

Ummmm ... this is Cyberpunk not Mad Max.
Night City is located in the Pacific Northwest ... hills ... trees ... LOTS of rain ... so the "wasteland" you're thinking of doesn't exist in the immediate area.

Okay, Wasteland is just an example. but I'm still not sure 'everywhere' of the map will have object to cover.

Plus, I just recognized it, The cover based combat system isn't force player to play just one way? 1. You seek cover 2. Waiting for enemy's shooting stop 3. Fire, like that. I don't know If It's funny and fit for the open world game. ;/

 

[Suhiira]

Plus, I just recognized it, The cover based combat system isn't force player to play just one way? 1. You seek cover 2. Waiting for enemy's shooting stop 3. Fire, like that. I don't know If It's funny and fit for the open world game. ;/

Pretty much like real life.
ONLY in movies do people charge into gunfire (well ... maybe a few people that are insane or oblivious do).
If you're getting shot at, hunker down and wait for an opportunity.

 

[Meccanical]

Okay, Wasteland is just an example. but I'm still not sure 'everywhere' of the map will have object to cover.

Plus, I just recognized it, The cover based combat system isn't force player to play just one way? 1. You seek cover 2. Waiting for enemy's shooting stop 3. Fire, like that. I don't know If It's funny and fit for the open world game. ;/

The main issue with cover shooters is the fact that they design the entire game around shooting from cover as waves upon waves of enemies shoot at you, also from cover.

Don't get me wrong, cover and concealment is extremely important for surviving a firefight and should exist in some form in the game, but I don't want this game to feel like Gear of War, or worse, Mass Effect 2.

 

[Sardukhar]

The main issue with cover shooters is the fact that they design the entire game around shooting from cover as waves upon waves of enemies shoot at you, also from cover.

Don't get me wrong, cover and concealment is extremely important for surviving a firefight and should exist in some form in the game, but I don't want this game to feel like Gear of War, or worse, Mass Effect 2.

God no. I never finished ME2 in no small part because of that. Blah. Cover should -not- be conveniently placed and it should be destroyable, depending on the cover. Also it doesn't stop bullets a lot of the time, just slows and redirects them in both real life and Cyberpunk 2020. Let's see that effect.

Hide behind flimsy car door...pretty much zero protection. Hide behind SP40 Dataterm, they need an autocannon to get through those things.

 

[Meccanical]

Yes, I think it's super important that cover should be something you have to SCRAMBLE to get too, and that it isn't immune to every munition known to man.

Although I would also like to bring up that I hope the game isn't just constantly funneling you into forced combat encounters for the whole game.

One thing I would like to see from this game is for enemy combatants to be able to lose you if you manage to outflank them and break line of sight for a length of time.