Gameplay - depth vs complexity vs fun

[Sardukhar]

Sometimes the only way to get an intelligent and rational conversation.

Oh, you think -that's- what you're having?

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Sometimes the only way to get an intelligent and rational conversation.

Oh, you think -that's- what you're having?

You think that means "in here"?



That would be something, now wouldn't it?

 

[metalmaniac21]

What do you mean, intelligent? You mean something, anything regadring cRPGs in general? Fix your monocles, fine ladies and gentlemen, your stories are getting more amazing than the others, I'm tired of listening to them.

 

[Benzenzimmern]

I can't say anything about Cyberpunk 2077 and its RPG systems yet, but if you're looking for an isometric RPG that covers themes similar to the cyberpunk-genre, I'd really recommend checking out Shadowrun: Dragonfall.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I can't say anything about Cyberpunk 2077 and its RPG systems yet, but if you're looking for an isometric RPG that covers themes similar to the cyberpunk-genre, I'd really recommend checking out Shadowrun: Dragonfall.

Dragonfall and Hong Kong are both great little gems and on the better part of the - quite aptly named, in my mind - "RPG renaissance". Good mood, good gameplay even if a bit on the simple side in general. I thoroughly second the endorsement here.

The only thing that puts me a bit off of them is the Shadorun settings mixup with fantasy and magic, but that's about my personal dislike of fantasy in general.

Also, I'm more than eager to hear about CP2077's RPG systems and their gameplay workings when ever that becomes possibe. I tend to paint some devils to the walls on occasion and be generally critical, but the that systems and gameplay stuff is what will eventually make or break the game for me, more or less. Fingers crossed...

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

I share the concern. I'm tired of these types of games pouring over left and right. Those gazillion Dark Souls clones being close to the worst offenders.

As for the topic question... Hopefully very much so. I don't think the game'll end up turnbased, but I hope the early on implied "tactical mode" will provide something to that end (check Wizardry 8 combat for reference). I hope there are plenty of skils and I hope they will be used to heavily impact gameplay... Not merely damage increments for guns, but how the weapon handles (accuracy, recoil, firing speed, reload times, holstering/unholstering...). Weighted probabilities for out-of-combat skill uses (behind the screen dicerolls), not merely skillgates that never say maybe, but allways simply either "yes" or "no". All skills affecting dialog options. I want (and hope for) all the numbercrunching (or character management, for a better term) goodness and interactivity and high end roleplaying opportunities I get from the oldschool games like the "real" Fallout games (1&2) or Wizardry 8.

I'm not going to get my dreamgame here (though I hope CDPR will monetize with the popularity of the oldschool RPG niche somehow), but if there was a scale where I would hope I could roughly put CP2077 in, it would look something like this.

RPG-----X----I----------Shooter

RPG (Fallout 1&2, Planescape: Torment, etc)
Shooter (any generic "shooter with stats")
I (the "perfect middle ground" where everything is shit because neither the action nor the RPG have been done right, and both have sacrificed too much of the core elements of what makes their respective genres fun to play)
X (CP2077 -- leaning clearly more towards the RPG than the shooter side)




Spiders (Mars Warlogs, Technomancer...), Piranha Bytes (Risen, ELEX), Deck 13 (Lords of the Fallen...), From Software (Dark Souls), Eidos Montreal (nu-Deus Ex), Bioware, Bethesda, CDPR, Guerrilla Games (Horizon Zero Dawn), Obsidian (when working with a publisher), RealityPump (Two Worlds...). I'm probably missing few.

They only Souls-like game that was good was Nioh. In fact it has way better combat than all the Souls games excluding Bloodborne.

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

Not the point dude, the point is that everything they've revealed so far has pointed towards it NOT being like whatever isometric copycat you've created in your head.

I think it will have more RPG elements than Witcher, we'll get character customization, hopefully classes and skill checks in dialogue. I'm hopeful we'll get different gameplay methods for accomplishing objectives. But I also have paid attention to who they're hiring and newsflash: It's all AAA people. This will be an AAA game so it's going to have some AAA drawbacks. Not even W3 was free from pointless padding as we saw with the question marks.

Witcher games were action adventures with light rpg elements but not a true rpg in any sense. Cyberpunk will probably have a lot more rpg mechanics due to the nature of its source material.

 

[Sneky]

Witcher games were action adventures with light rpg elements but not a true rpg in any sense. Cyberpunk will probably have a lot more rpg mechanics due to the nature of its source material.

But what is true RPG then? Role Playing Games its not objective term, it is subjective and for every gamer means different things.

Planescape Torment is also not true RPG? Because it is focusing heavy on storytelling like CDPR games? Interesting, because generally Planescape is considered as one of the best CRPG ever made.


Not in every RPG main focus must be on systems, gameplay or exploration. There is also place for RPGs with heavy story, good writing and C&C

 

[tropit9]

I can't say anything about Cyberpunk 2077 and its RPG systems yet, but if you're looking for an isometric RPG that covers themes similar to the cyberpunk-genre, I'd really recommend checking out Shadowrun: Dragonfall.

i don't want you to get into trouble, but if you could answer this, it would be great- do YOU know what type of an rpg this game will become? a simple yes or know will suffice

 

[Suhiira]

I can't say anything about Cyberpunk 2077 and its RPG systems yet, but if you're looking for an isometric RPG that covers themes similar to the cyberpunk-genre, I'd really recommend checking out Shadowrun: Dragonfall.

Answer enough ... and suitably indirect to (hopefully) not get your boss mad at you.

My interpretation of what Benzenzimmern didn't say is any debate over CP2077 being isometric is dead ... Dead ... DEAD.
But that's just my opinion ...

 

[BadWolf3]

CDPR said CB2077 will be an RPG first. IMO first person & third person is where it's at. I'm all for complex mechanics, but I don't think the isometric view, or even complex combat mechanics for that matter, make an RPG an RPG. A Role Playing Game is a game that lets you choose your role in the game and do whatever you want as that role. So I think Skyrim does a good job at many areas, but less good of a job at others. For example, you don't get much dialog options in Skyrim, and there's a lot of essential NPCs that are immortal, and those things contradict the genre the game is trying to be. I think the more immersive an RPG is, the more it is an RPG, and maybe for you that's isometric, but I think first person perspective is very immersive, but it's sometimes fun to play from a third person perspective. If I play a game like Diablo, pure hack and slash, I definitely want the camera to be located above my character.

 

[Benzenzimmern]

i don't want you to get into trouble, but if you could answer this, it would be great- do YOU know what type of an rpg this game will become? a simple yes or know will suffice

Yes.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Yes.

Are you quite sure? No chance of it transforming into something else?

 

[Suhiira]

Are you quite sure? No chance of it transforming into something else?

Such as ... a pizza or an automobile tire?

 

[metalmaniac21]

Such as ... a pizza or an automobile tire?

Or GTA III.(What? GTA III is cyberpunk AF, barring the cyberware)

 

[tropit9]

Yes.

thank you :hatsoff: . it reaffirms the "quite advenced" development state declaration. also for this thread, it means that this part of the gameplay design is over. probably.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

They only Souls-like game that was good was Nioh. In fact it has way better combat than all the Souls games excluding Bloodborne.

Not a fan of those types of games. I find that kind of H&S rather boring.

Such as ... a pizza

I liked the unedited "an pizza" better. It had a certain ring to it.

 

[BadWolf3]

CDPR made it very clear what RPG this will be. They just can't talk about it right now, but there is already enough information to know exactly what they're shooting for. But please, correct me if you read something that contradicts it.
Cyberpunk 2077 is: Skyrim style open sandbox world. Witcher 3 quality story, quality characters and quality side quests. Some similarity to Fallout 2, maybe in dialogue options(which would be awesome). A rumour containing a presentation power point file from 2013 reveals 1st and 3rd person perspectives being in the game(hopefully this is true). Choices and consequences, hopefully to the degree Fallout 2 and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic did choices and consequences.
If all of this stuff is executed well, this will be the best game.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

CDPR made it very clear what RPG this will be.

Not exactly, no. We have bits and pieces of information from several years ago, some more vague than others, and very little of anything actually definite.

 

[BadWolf3]

Not exactly, no. We have bits and pieces of information from several years ago, some more vague than others, and very little of anything actually definite.

They already said enough definite information that describes what they're making. The only vague parts are not knowing how exactly they'll do things, like how exactly the design of the map will be, whether the distance between points of interest will be closer to Witcher 3 or Skyrim for example. But the type of game it is has already been established. RPG with story, open sandbox world, character progression, choices & consequences, character customization. I can post some sources if you want.