Being "EVIL" in this game/world

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Being "EVIL" in this game/world

Do you think its a possibility? is it something you want? I was thinking we get to pick classes/roles (hopefully) and corporate is one of them. And being corporate by definition you are evil. Do anything to get a raise. Buy prostitutes and do coke off their boobs and so on. Order hits on competitions. What do you guys think?
 
"Evil" doesn't really exist in..no, wait. That's not true. There are really fucked-up people in CPunk. So, yes, evil exists.

The things you described are kind of a range. "Do anything" could be some real, kid-murdering, torturing evil shit. The coke off boobs sounds like a fetish? Ordering hits on rivals is just good business in 2020.

So I hope we'll be able to do a wide range of not-good things, but real evil will be on the table only for the enemy. Who shall receive my just vengeance. For money. Of course.
 
"Evil"...never liked this term in rpgs. It is too broad, simple minded, usually there is no sensible context behind it... most of the time, in rpgs, player commits evil actions for the sake of roleplaying an evil character.
(Fallout III nuking entire city for no reason, New Vegas siding with raiders at beginning or with Caesar's legion, later on.)
With lifepaths CDPR can try and create a more stronger, personal, psychological base that's behind player's behavior. Someone with a background of subjected to frequent violence and developing personality with strong sadistic tendencies: this would have impact on certain dialogue options, at times.
Obsidian tried "something" with Pillars by splitting traditional binary morality into several attributes ( passionate, stoic, rational, cruel, etc...) but it didn't really work out well. Didn't really have any impact, most of the time it was same dialogue with different flavor, and you ended up collecting points for whatever personality you wanted ( preconceived) for your character.
 
For instance in Mass Effect, we often given a choice of being the good guy or being the bad guy but the end result is still saving the world. We often see this in rpgs that allow you to play as a bad guy but the bad guy still accomplishes whatever it was meant for them to do regardless of how you played the game. My suggestion is to skip that. How about instead of saving the world you make it worse for your own profit. There are not that many games or any that allow you to do that. KoTOR comes to mind but in that game you still kill off the bad guy and stop his plans. It would be an interesting new aspect in the game where you reject the the good guy path completely.
 
Far to many people associate "evil" with "sociopathic behavior", they are not the same thing.

"Evil" requires intentional action specifically intended to be detrimental to others. Getting drunk and running over a baby isn't "evil", nor is killing one "just because you can". The first is irresponsible, the second "sociopathic". Now if you commit genocide for ethnic/religious cleansing reasons that's "evil". You have a reason and a goal, typical social and ethical considerations are intentionally ignored.

I see lots of people act like a-holes in RPGs and claim they're being "evil" ... nope ... they're just being a-holes.
 
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Would be really interesting if we could play something like a corp. A different storyline then your typical punk, rebel role. A simple template, you get betrayed by other corps, lose everything, start from the gutter and you decide if you want to change your view or live among them, betray, try to setup gangs or just be greedy and egotistical to get back where you were. New Vegas also gives you a pretty simple backstory and it worked.

In general i hope CDPR doesn't shy away from more "exotic" roles (if we get roles) like Corp, Rockerboy etc. I just want different perspectives and starting points.
 
Satori88;n8408920 said:
In general i hope CDPR doesn't shy away from more "exotic" roles (if we get roles) like Corp, Rockerboy etc. I just want different perspectives and starting points.
Hi,
how do you imagine role defines or influences your gameplay ?
 
Yea, I want to have OPTIONS and not just play good guy, nor do I just want to play a sorta bad/indifferent/jerk, I want to play evil. Roles should have a good or darker path, a cop could be corrupt, pulling people over and confiscating money/property, taking bribes, have people falsely arrested, etc. Nomad could easily be a psycho, murder, cannibalism, thievery..etc. Nethackers could hack into peoples brains and control their bodies like puppets similar to ghost in the shell, or use soulkiller (please be in) to copy a persons mind and keep in stored in some cyberpace environment as your prisoner. Corporate..well, they are naturally evil so it would be redundant. However, evil paths should definitely be in. I really hate games where you are either just good or a jerk, with no "evil" options to play as you want.
 
"I'm evil, ooga booga booga". That's what we're talking about, right? A lot of my tabletop friends have a name for that. It's called "Stupid Evil". If you're doing things without cause, you're not evil, you're just stupid or insane. If you have a cause, are you really evil? Do you refer to yourself as evil? You're getting ahead, so it's survival, right? Random killing sprees into reload game loops are functionally evil, I guess, but if you're acknowledge it as such, you're not too different from the mustache-twirling villain that ties damsels to train tracks.
 
Soldowner;n8430310 said:
"I'm evil, ooga booga booga". That's what we're talking about, right? A lot of my tabletop friends have a name for that. It's called "Stupid Evil". If you're doing things without cause, you're not evil, you're just stupid or insane. If you have a cause, are you really evil? Do you refer to yourself as evil? You're getting ahead, so it's survival, right? Random killing sprees into reload game loops are functionally evil, I guess, but if you're acknowledge it as such, you're not too different from the mustache-twirling villain that ties damsels to train tracks.

by evil i mean greed. doing something that benefits you at the detriment of others.
 
animalfather;n8430580 said:
by evil i mean greed. doing something that benefits you at the detriment of others.

Well...it's evil to somebody, I guess. Greed is a Corp staple, and they've gotta be evil!
 
"Evil", like many things is a matter of perspective.

But the key is why someone is doing what they do far more then the what.
As Soldowner said, most folks act "Stupid Evil" because they confuse the act with the intent.
 
if the motto is to save yourself, then, i think there will be lot of opportunities to be evil, it's your choice
will you be ruthless and relentless and unleash hell upon others just so save yoruself?
or will you be nice and kindly ask for help and achieve your goal in a peaceful way?

"save yourself is our motto" ;)
 
This is something worthing to take in consideration...

Generally being evil for most players is like: Being a psichopath dumbass that want to destroy everything that moves and enjoy to do so...

I find this definition of Evil pretty idiotic if you accept the term...

But cyberpunk is a world where you have to do dirty tricks and many times even morally wrong things for today standard..

I don't think there are things such Good or Evil in cyberpunk... Cyberpunk is pretty dark and grey in definition and characters tends to be not Black or White but in shades of gray.
 
Context is what it comes down to.

Design of economy/loot/quests/difficulty should put the player in position of how far am I willing to go for a better chance of survival. This will be no easy task in a game of this scale...CDPR will need to improve dramatically on designing these systems and making them work well together.

Npc's should manipulate, lie, try to take advantage of you...two way street of interaction.

Otherwise, it's pointless...let me squeeze every coin out of this peasant, when I have already more money than the bloody emperor.
 
Zagor-Te-Nay;n8452110 said:
Otherwise, it's pointless...let me squeeze every coin out of this peasant, when I have already more money than the bloody emperor.

Very much this. Witcher 3 made this error, Skyrim, you name it.

Making lots of money is very cool and a Cyberpunk thing to do.

It's one of the two big rewards for being evil in fact, (the other being power), and as such, there should be things to -do- with that kind of money.

What point to being Cruel Greedy Corporate if the reward for fabulous wealth is, well, lame?
 
One of the things I liked about DA: Origins was you couldn't afford everything. Even as a rogue (by FAR the best class to make money with) you had to prioritize what you bought because it was flat out impossible to make/steal enough to afford it all.
 
TiaDeLamare;n8476020 said:
Communities and family are things of the past. Gangs and isolation are the norm.

So being 'evil' is very easy in a world like this.

It's pretty much like living in the Third World today.
I'll have to disagree with part of this.

If you can't rely on the government or other social institutions then family and community become more important not less.
Gangs are merely and extension or supplement to/of family and/or community.

I'd also think religion has made a significant comeback among the lower economic strata. Much like the medieval peasant, if your life here on Earth sux there's a real incentive to adopt a faith that promises the next one will be better.
 
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Suhiira;n8408690 said:
Far to many people associate "evil" with "sociopathic behavior", they are not the same thing.

"Evil" requires intentional action specifically intended to be detrimental to others. Getting drunk and running over a baby isn't "evil", nor is killing one "just because you can". The first is irresponsible, the second "sociopathic". Now if you commit genocide for ethnic/religious cleansing reasons that's "evil". You have a reason and a goal, typical social and ethical considerations are intentionally ignored.

I see lots of people act like a-holes in RPGs and claim they're being "evil" ... nope ... they're just being a-holes.

So much this.

It's one of the things that always drives me nuts in RPG's. Most games don't let you be "evil". They let you be an asshole. There's a MASSIVE difference.
And sadly most players these days don't seem to understand the difference (mainly because they don't really get to see proper examples in modern games).

Killing people because you can isn't evil. It's just sociopathic. It's definitely "wrong", but wrong=/=evil.
Murdering someone because he's got nice stuff is a dick move. Murdering someone and pinning it on someone else so that you can profit off that person's suffering is evil.

Being violent or crazy isn't evil... it's just... violent or crazy.
"Evil" implies intent. It means there's a deeper plan behind your actions. And even with that, in the cyberpunk world a lot more things are shades of grey. Setting up a stealthy attack against one company in order to get them to hire you for a job isn't evil, it's just good business. It's definitely shady and underhanded, but that's how the world works.

Honestly, games shouldn't try to have "good vs evil" ratings. Instead they need to focus on REPUTATION. Your actions (basically anything that can be openly attributed to you, so nothing that you do without being caught) should get added to your rep. So as you complete jobs you get a rep for being dependable. Keeping secrets (when someone knows someone tried to get info out of you that you had but you kept quiet) would get you a rep for being trustworthy. Keeping your word would show you as honest. And the reverse would apply. So spilling the beans when caught would get you a rep as a snitch.

It should never just be a matter of a black and white "good or evil" slider. There should be many reputation points, and each would rise and fall depending on the actions you take (and that others know about). So if you go about and steal a lot of stuff without anyone knowing, that wouldn't affect your rep, as nobody knows you did it. However if you get hired by a company to steal something and pull it off, you WOULD get a rep for being stealthy.

When given options on how to handle a situation it should track your response. So did you talk your way through? Bribe? Fight? Sneak past? All those would be tracked in their own way and shape who you are on how others would respond to you. Honest people wouldn't like a sneaky liar. Corps are going to look for dependable and trustworthy people to hire. A thief might confide in another thief.

So while simpler games might basically give you the option of talking or fighting in a situation and put you down as good for doing it peacefully and evil for being violent (which is stupid), I would love to see this game put some actual effort into it. Have a list of reps:

Honesty (do you keep your word or not?)
Dependability (do you finish what you start?)
Courage (do you stand up for what you believe in or run when in danger? Remember that too much courage can be seen as foolhardy)
Stealth (can you be sneaky or are you a bull in a China shop?)
Altruism (do you help those in need or focus on yourself?)
Aggression (can you find non-violent ways out of situations or do you always go in guns blazing?)

And remember that being "evil" is a matter of intent, not result. So you might put on an appearance of being honest and dependable, but secretly sell out those you are helping for your own benefit (without being caught to ruin your "good rep").
 
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