ammo pickups, or the deep pockets issue

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ammo pickups, or the deep pockets issue

this game is probably gonna have several shotous events for most if not all classe. given this game is more grounded in reality. i'd personally would not like to be able to carry in one pocket 20 clips for my handgun, in in the other pocket a bazuka. nor would i like to have convient "ammo crates" of sort in a shotout that occour in a place which such crate replacment does not make sense (hospital, dmv ofiice, a movie theater)

places such as high secured banks armory like human revoulution or gang owned buisness like resutrants' or shops is more fittin for such crates.

also, you are not a truck, you are not supposed to be able to carry a full arsenal AND tons of ammor for it all.

a nice solution is to carry extra rounds/weapons in your private vehicle/flying car/tank/mecha and of course, an owend apartment.

the witcher 3 had a nice idea that all your gear is supposedly placed in the bags that roach carried. but sveral full plate armor part and more sword than an armory alwys felt kinda "off"

i feel that ammo usage in this type of game should be more calculated, each shot should have more weight, and spray and prey, like in reality, should be a really bad idea.








i'd like to here more opinions on this issue :)
 
I agree with you. Force them to actually have meaningful melee combat and situational awareness, where it's not just an obligatory knife or something
 
a more realistic inventory system is preferable. i hate games where you carry 10 different types of weapons and a bunch of items. i would like a character with a realistic backpack which gets bigger the more stuff you put in it and u see it on screen. this has never been done in games ever. and yes ofc it would take a lot of processing power to do it but cdpr is very talented and they got 500 people working on it and can make it happen.
 
It's a difficult balance to get just right. You want your game to be fun, but you don't want it too unrealistic (unless you are Just Cause) Managing a massive inventory is not fun (for most people) and making super frequent trips to whatever form of storage you've got is not fun (again, for most people)

Whatever they do, it needs to force you to carefully choose what you bring, without hindering too much on what you can bring back. If that makes sense
 
BjornTheBandit;n8561340 said:
It's a difficult balance to get just right. You want your game to be fun, but you don't want it too unrealistic (unless you are Just Cause) Managing a massive inventory is not fun (for most people) and making super frequent trips to whatever form of storage you've got is not fun (again, for most people)

Whatever they do, it needs to force you to carefully choose what you bring, without hindering too much on what you can bring back. If that makes sense

Is actually fairly good to balance if you have the right ideas... most devs are just lazy and don't care about realism they don't even think on a solution to make the setting more beliable so they just pump inventory weight and that's it...

Solution: make people able to drop things on the van of their vehicles

So if you need to carry around heavy machinegun and heavy weapons you could just move them around with your vehicle and take them when you need them..
 
Thats a tough one cuz you have those people who of course want the game to be as realistic as possible, then on the other hand you have those who want the game to just be as fun as possible. I think most devs try to find the space in between those 2 things. But done right i think it would add to the immersion of a game. Especially a game like this one. But cdpr did say that they want this game to rely more on actual player skill then on character statistics so maybe theyll come up with something original in this regard. I think since it sounds like character customization is going to be a big part of the game maybe they could base it on what your wearing. Like for ex if your just wearing a tanktop n pants then obv u only have limited pockets to stire ammo. But then you could go to a store where you can buy clothing with custom pockets built in or like soemone else said a backpack. Or body armor with ammo pockets built in to it. Make it so the amount of stuff you can carry is based off of real aspects of your characrer is what im trying to get at lol.
 
Mebrilia;n8561760 said:
Is actually fairly good to balance if you have the right ideas... most devs are just lazy and don't care about realism they don't even think on a solution to make the setting more beliable so they just pump inventory weight and that's it...

Solution: make people able to drop things on the van of their vehicles

So if you need to carry around heavy machinegun and heavy weapons you could just move them around with your vehicle and take them when you need them..

This could work. And it would force some tactical thinking; having to take into account the proximity of all your stuff and how to protect it. I think I'm with you on this one
 
that's the sort of ideas i would love too. reality is somtimes tedious, but that how it is. also consider fo late level game the ability to summoun a drone drop of supplies, like extra ammo, or a shotgum or fancy field healing item. a really smart drone who could manuver in tight spaces in case you are in building or sewer for example, and has to some degree missles/laser to blow up walls so it can reach you in extream cases. super exapnsive and require a device for it home on you, or better yet, an impalnt.
 


nu-Deus Ex developers nailed the inventory and itemization. Simple and mouse friendly interface and doesn't let you carry 10+ rifles. What not to love here?

Something CD Project RED failing on a constant basis since their first game and should have a closer look and more research into.
 
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1) it does not show on charecter. with and without his coat.
2) can you carry a tranquilazer rifle. a shotgun, several batteries, inside your "pokests"? jensen does not evan strap them to his back. unless he has some sort of shrinking augment the like deadpool magic bag...

i enjoyd human revolutin and mankind divded very much. but the inventory is unrealistic.
 
tropit9;n8580870 said:
can you carry a tranquilazer rifle. a shotgun, several batteries, inside your "pokests"?
Simple, make guns "bigger" on the inventory screen.
Also people invented backpacks, so several whatever you wanna carry is not an issue.
tropit9;n8580870 said:
it does not show on charecter. with and without his coat.
Alone in the Dark (2008) did it and failed to be an enjoyable game. And it wasn't even RPG.

It's not about being realistic, it's about balance between realism and fun.
 
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Realism is not a good metric by which to judge a game. It's merely a stylistic choice, and the application of that choice matters.

Remember the complaints about Geralt's controls near the launch of The Witcher 3? He controlled like ass because his movements were "realistic." The way he walked was incredibly convincing and un-gamelike, but while the movement animations were realistic, the way you controlled Geralt was not. See, Geralt's "realistic" movement animations were paired with an unrealistic joystick control scheme where you point the stick in the direction you intend to go. We the players don't have direct control over Geralt's limbs, we can only ever suggest which way to go. How humans actually move through densely packed rooms filled with obstacles like coffee tables and chairs and toys on the ground is not how Geralt moved, who moved like someone that was always in a wide-open space, unaware that he would be smacking his shins into everything.

The same applies to inventory management in a lot of games. Crafting game are the worst about this. You "realistically" have to store your stuff, and you "realistically" need to organize your stuff to be be able to find it later. But that is paired with an unrealistic system where it's a royal pain in the ass to actually sift through everything, where you are fighting an interface to put your junk in the right crates and barrels after carrying hundreds of times more junk than is humanly possible. And, since they can't describe inventory limitations in terms of weight without completely throwing you for a loop, they instead describe inventory in the abstracted sense of "slots" meaning that the tiny bit of pocket lint is what's preventing you from picking up 100 iron ore.

An unrealistic solution that ultimately gets players to behave more realistically is to allow players to automatically deposit all their junk into the right containers, as though they've got a computerized sorting machine. Instead of spending thirty minutes to an hour fucking hating trying to find the right barrel to put everything in because all their stuff is visually hidden inside an opaque barrel, they just click a button and go back to playing the damn game.

To bring this back to Cyberpunk 2077, you don't want realistic inventory management, not as you imagine it. You don't want to be juggling candy bars and assault rifles, you don't want to be using fast travel to zip back and forth between your apartment and the action because you want to use something different. You maybe don't want to have access to everything you've collected all at once, sure, you should need to make a choice between bringing a full dakka loadout or lots of spy gear, but you don't want to constantly be picking up something, stopping what you're doing, fast travelling back to storage, and then coming back. It's a "realistic" constraint that encourages unrealistic (and more importantly unfun) behavior.

Just abstract it away. Have a line about it being loaded into your car or whatever. It worked just fine with Geralt and Roach, that Roach maybe was carrying a bit much doesn't really matter compared to not having to constantly manage your inventory. No one gives Dark Souls shit for being unrealistic in having unlimited inventory space, it's beautiful to just pick something up and be excited about it without the game telling you you have to stop having fun for ten minutes while you try to figure out what you should be dropping in its place. Who the fuck drops guns everywhere, anyways?
 
I think it would be proper if the player had to choose a loadout everytime he goes out on a job or what ever. I mean, you don't run around waving an AR when ever you feel like killing some civilians or shooting cars (that's GTA, not Cyberpunk).

This could mean a lot of things among which that if you wish to go out packing a bit heavier (shotgun, AR, etc), you need to wear clothes that can conceal the weapons (a trenchcoat), looking like trouble this would obviously prevent access to certain places -- if, on the other other hand, you feel like wearing something lighter and perhaps more stylistic in order to meet that informant in the highroller corner joint, you would need to arm yourself accordingly, meaning no guns above a certain size. The Wardrobe&Style skill would help here as well as possibly Hide/Evade (help in picking the right rags for the right loadout and further conceal the weapon; otherwise you might not even need to be stripsearched at the club entrance before the bouncer notices how your weapon is bulging from under your garment... and then you're in trouble). This would also mean that the player doesn't run around carrying hundreds of rounds of ammunition with them and all packed neatly in possibly hundreds of clips.

Inventory should be limited both is size and weight. The player of course should have space to pick up some junk he might happen by, but I don't think the game should encourage picking up all the junk one can find. That only leads to incentivizing the obsessive compulsive trashcan rummaging and from thereon excessive and boring inventory management when the player has a ton of garbage in his pockets.

I'd rather there was only a moderate amount of stuff to pick up (much, much less than in Witcer 3), but every item would also have a bigger role in the gameplay (bigger than being just a singular crafting item -- even if that was an option too).

This might all sound like striving for "realism", but I'm not. I'm not interested in "realism", just interesting gameplay. And the restrction here make it more interestng since you need to put a bit of your head into what it is you wish to achieve when yuo next go to the streets, what is it that you need to keep in mind when you go for the next job what ever it may be...
 
metalmaniac21;n8580880 said:
Simple, make guns "bigger" on the inventory screen.
Also people invented backpacks, so several whatever you wanna carry is not an issue.

Alone in the Dark (2008) did it and failed to be an enjoyable game. And it wasn't even RPG.

It's not about being realistic, it's about balance between realism and fun.

The term fun is higly subjective... For me call of duty is not "fun" many people think is fun...Instead to me arma is Fun many people think is tedious and too much hard...This game is based in a P&P in a futuristic world grounded in reality... You won't see reapers here... you won't see giant mechs and godzilla...Is a game that based his success in a view on the world and in his mechanics presenting a dystopian future grounded with reality....

Have you ever attempted to get in a local bar,disco,pub,store wearing a backpack? i assure you most of the time won't work...and for security reason...

When people consider "Fun" as a factor are already doing a huge mistake... Fun is not a reliable source of success it is indeed a very subjective term that depends on every single individual... There are people that want mindless shooting and instant gratification because they think is fun...

Other people are looking for complexity because they think is fun...

For sure i don't want cyberpunk to be degrated to a mindless action shoter with rpg elements... in order to bring the Cyberpunk feel they "need" to stay loyal to the setting and to the P&P system because if not it will be just a themepark....

ANd we have a lot of themepark cyberpunkish action games around we don't need another one.
 
kofeiiniturpa;n8582410 said:
I think it would be proper if the player had to choose a loadout everytime he goes out on a job or what ever.

Something like Resident Evil 5 did? Where you had a little 8 or 9 square cube, and EVERYTHING you brought with you took up a square. Ammo, health, and guns
 
BjornTheBandit;n8585920 said:
Something like Resident Evil 5 did? Where you had a little 8 or 9 square cube, and EVERYTHING you brought with you took up a square. Ammo, health, and guns

I haven't played RE5, but what you describe is not quite what I had in mind. Something more akin to a mixup between Hitman, Stalker and Shadowrun.
 
This inventory system seen below comes from a Russian game called "7,62 High Calibre"... aka "E6" (the previous game was known as "Brigade E5: New Jagged Union", hence the E6 on 7.62... there are atleast 2 more games in the series as well as far as I remember... but outside of E5 and E6 only one other from the game series is on Steam, I think it is E8 and is on steam known as "Marauder").

E5 and E6 is more or less classified as an "Tactical Stratagy Simulator RPG game" (although Marauder is also a "Post-apocalyptic Survival" game, where you build up your base (a huge apartment block) over time), and in my mind this game series is one of the most realistic games I have ever played when it comes to combat and a lot of other aspects around it. The RPG part of the game tends to revolve around that it is stats driven and that your characters get better at what they do (and their stats) by doing relevent stuff in the game. I keep coming back to this game series over and over again because I highly enjoy everything about them. XD

Anyway...


The first image below shows Spectre (my) character which has no equipment equipped currently. The bright yellow text in the image is the one I added for clarification of what each inventory element is.

The second image below shows my character "Spectre" equipped with multiple things. This is really the "befor picture", since I removed all his equipment to take the previous image.

From the start your character only have a very limited set of slots where you can place items. Some of those areas are locked to one particular thing... like the Helmet, Nightvision, Vest, Backpack, Body armor, Belt and the Faction clothing/Camoflauge slot... only such items are allowed to be place in those locations. The remaining slots you have available from the start for items are the Hands slot, the two Shoulder slots, the Neck slot, and the two Pocket slots... some of these remaining slots have no restriction on what can be in them (other then potentually size in some cases), where as others are more or less restricted (especially the shoulder slots). The Hand slot is the only slot where you can place anything that can be carried in (the hand slots are also the location where you have to have the weapon you want to use in combat), where as most other slots have some kind of restriction. To increase the numbers of inventory space you need to loot/buy equipment which does that. Backpack being one (and the largest one of course), the Vest is another, and the Belt is the third one. There is a fourth one, Pouches, but you need a belt to be able to equipt them (since you equipt them onto the belt).

The light grey'ish colored lines in the gridsystems indicate sort of the soft limits of what can be places... as in that if there are grey lines items can cross them when it comes to size. Where as the black lines in the grid system indicate hard lines that an item can not cross due to size. For example, a single square with black lines around it can only have items the size of a single square in them (like a small grenade or a pistol magazine)... where as 1x2 "pocket" with black linea around it and a grey line in the middle, can take either two 1 square items, or a single 1x2 square item (like a knife). A 2x2 slot, with black lines around it and grey lines in the middle (like one of the pocket boxes), would be able to take anywhere from 1 to 4 items in it, most Pistols will be able to fit into a 2x2 for example.

Carrying to much in this game is not good though, since it will reduce your movement speed, and increase the energy needed to perform actions (moving faster then walking takes energy). Both of which can cause problems... If your to slow in movement you might fail to reach cover befor your shot or get out of the range of a grenade or something... and if your energy get's to low your character might need to stop for a short while to recover some energy to continue, to move and/or use the specific action you would want them to use... to low energy will also mean that the different types of available speeds you can move at is unavailable to you (so running or jogging, or using the fast crouch walk, for example). Under very specific circumstances it is even possible to have a character faint on you because they used to much energy, then they are out for a short while untill their energy start coming back (think it is a matter of seconds or something... I rarely encounter this though, especially in combat, so I don't know)... and I think everyone here can imaging just how bad it is to suddenly faint right in the middle of a fire fight. XD

Putting the rest in spoilers since it's more indepth about the game and it's inventory system, some of it is probably compleatly irrelivant as well. XD
There are a few different kinds of backpacks, vests, and belts... where the division of squares and black lines is different in them. The belt my character has on right now for example is more of an ammunition/magazine/small items type of a belt, and as such is better to store smaller items in it. Where as there is another Belt which includes a larger 2x2 slot which allowes you to place for example a pistol/revolver or one of the smaller SMG's. Belt's are also unique in that they are the only item available that you can put other "bags" on/in them (you can not place a backpack or belt inside a backpack for example, or any kind of bag inside another kind of bag), because some belts have slots to place pouches on them (which can be seen on the right in the second image with the 2x3 grid area where there is a pink donuts looking thing in one of the slots... that's tape... you can tape certain types of magazines together in pairs in the game for quicker reload times, hence the pink tape... strangely enough some magazine that are taped together show black tape, which does not exist in the game... XD ).

One tendency about backpacks in the game is that it will limit your characters available movement maneuvers that they can do... because a character with a backpack on can not lay roll to the left and right when they are laying down prone, but will instead need to turn and crawl to the new location. Those precious several extra seconds that takes can be very vital for your characters survival in some cases, which is why I almost always have my characters throw their backpacks to the ground befor, or just as, combat starts. It i also why I make sure my characters have what they need to keep going through the entire fight in other locations then the backpack.

The Shoulder and Neck slots are also a bit unique. In that the only items that you can place there (as far as I remember) are larger kinds of weapons which would conceivably come with a carrying harness/straps... so most (if not all) rifles, and some or most of the SMG's to I think, but no pistols or melee weapons etc. The Neck slot though does allow you to carry one other thing, a belt (so you can carry two belts if you wish in total)... you can just not easily access the things you have inside that belt around you neck on the fly though... since you would have to replace that belt around your waist with the belt from your neck... which takes time, and in combat you don't always have that time to do things like that.

The maximum numbers of available squares that your character could possibly have in the game would be by having a Vest, 2 Backpacks (on on the back and one in their hands), 2 Belts with 2 Pouches each. But carrying to much is not a good thing in the game, as mentioned previously. Not to mention that if your carrying two backpack, one on your back, and one in your hands, then your not able to fight back, because you have no weapon equiped (I guess you could probably throw the backpack in your hands at the enemy to slow them down for a bit... but your probably still screwed at this point... unless you get lucky... XD ).

You would have to spend X seconds on throwing the backpack, then spend another several seconds to pull out the weapon (certain locations take longer, like pulling it out of a backpack, where as if it's in your belt or pocket it's much quicker to get out), and then spend another several seconds readying and aiming the weapon and finally firing on who ever it is you need to fire on. By that time though you might already have been shot a few times, which obviously is not a good thing... not only because it injures your character, but also because when your hit by something, no matter if it actually did damage or not, your stunned for a slight bit so your action takes longer to perform.

This is why something like a pistol can in the right circumstances (close quarters, like 10 meters or less, rounding a corner, or something) totally win against an opponent sporting an assault rifle and thick body armor... because the pistol takes less time to ready, and less time to fire, then an AR, and as long as you keep hitting your target your essentually stunlocking them. But increase that range to 15-20+ meters, or have some other thing happen which effects the situation (like the AR guy having already fixed his aim at the corner you just happened to round), then your pistol guy will most likely be blown to smitherines by the AR guy due to better accuracy at longer range, higher damage per hit, and potentually full auto as well. XD

Real life tactics actually work in this game, and the logical real life consequences of doing certain things tend to for the most part be inline with what would actually happen in real life... unlike most other games on the market atleast. Like rushing into a room like a bull will most likely get you killed in these game, and fast to. But if you change that up a little, and you thrown in a grenade or flash bang or something first, and then rush in after it has gone of, then your probably going to catch the people in there off guard and stunned and/or already bleeding out and/or dying, at which point your chance of mowing down the remaining people is much better.

Of course... you have to take into account what kind of walls the room has... because if it is wood, and you throw in a regular grenade there, then you might hit your self as the grenade shards punch through the wall your hiding by. In that case, if you do not have a flashbang, then maybe take a few steps away from the wall instead, and then set your assault rifle up on full auto and set the left to right targeting area wide enough to cover the entire room, and spray down the wooden wall, and anyone else behind it with bullets. But again... you got to be causious because ricochet are a thing in this game. I have at one point during all the years I have played these games had one character who, via their own missed shot which hit a rock and ricocheted, managed to kill them selves with a headshot. XD



 
kofeiiniturpa;n8586390 said:
I haven't played RE5, but what you describe is not quite what I had in mind. Something more akin to a mixup between Hitman, Stalker and Shadowrun.

Meh, its "Mercenaries" mini-game was more fun than the actual game itself, but that was because they got the mix wrong between action/survival-horror.

The inventory was very clean and dead simple, no muss no fuss to use. And the limited space really did force some thought into what you wanted "Yes, this magnum is the coolest gun ever! BUUUUUUT, the ammo is scarce and it's awful for crowd control, so do I really want to put it in place of the multitasking smg?"
 
tropit9;n8580870 said:
1) it does not show on charecter. with and without his coat.
2) can you carry a tranquilazer rifle. a shotgun, several batteries, inside your "pokests"? jensen does not evan strap them to his back. unless he has some sort of shrinking augment the like deadpool magic bag...

i enjoyd human revolutin and mankind divded very much. but the inventory is unrealistic.

I prefer my games to not be IRL sims. So a inventory with decent space is fine.
 
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