A rant about ambush cards

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A rant about ambush cards

Ambush cards, as is, is pretty bad.

1: Due to how ambush cards plays, an opponent with knowledge of cards can easily conclude what ambush card is played.
Played on a row with lots of units? Toruviel. Scorchable targets or incomming special? schirru or ida emean. Played on opponents side? Trapper. Played alone? Fire trap.

Ambush cards should be harder to discern, opponents shouldnt so easily know which ambush card is played.
If ambush cards where played on a separate row\box it would be harder for the opponent to guess which trap it is. Optionally the ambush card is not shown to the opponent at all (invisible to the opponent, visible to the player.) Either way as is, ambush cards are too easily recognized and played around.

2: Lack of ambush cards
With the few ambush cards which exists, knowing which of the few is played becomes alot easier. If we had more ambush card types it would be harder to guess which it is.
Dol Blathanna trapper is a glaring example of this, its the only ambush card played on the opponents side and thus super easy to play around rendering it as useless unless you play against a player with lack of knowledge. Again the solution would be to make the opponent not see what ambush card was played (the play and the card being invisible to the opponent). Another solution would be to introduce alot more ambush cards, making it harder to guess which card it is and thus harder to play around it.

As it is now, only a few ambush cards are played and most players can easily recognize and thus play around these cards.

3: issue 3. Ambush cards all has 1 massive counter, pass the round while in lead.
If the ST player is behind, the opponent can just pass the turn rendering possibly mulitple ambush cards in play useless.
The solution here would be to trigger the ambush cards effect when the opponent passes regardless of previous requirements. Or atleast tally their strength toward the score.
Make schirru play his scorche, reveal ida emean, trigger the trapper and so on.

If these 3 issues are solved, ambush cards should be playable. As it is now, most ambush card are outright ignored. Some may play schirru, ida, toruviel and fire trap. But in the matches i've played most people recognise these tactics and always easily play around them. If they pass while in lead and you have ambush cards out, you'll loose the round cause ambush cards dont count towards final score (exept for toruviel). If you play catch up you'll be at a severe card disadvantage. Its almost as if ambush cards are designed to make you loose the game. It needs redesigning,
 
I agree with you in some points - tried to play ST after the patch. Wit all the changes it is hard to win - far to predictable. Not only the ambush cards. If you buff the cards like Toruviel it makes only sense if you play Toruviel in the last round. But most opponents can see clearly what happens. The only interesting idea atm is to play and buff Ele'yas. But not even that did let me win more then 2 games. ST is now a rather dead faction imo.
 
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Ambush cards are all about tricking the player into thinking you played one when you actually played another, in this way you can make him play extra cards or limit himself from using others. Like faking a card by placing it as if it were toruviel when it's just ciaran etc. So many ways you can play mind games. He can think if he plays a special it will scorch him based on where you played the ambush and so he has to refrain etc. etc.
 
I played 20-30 matches at lower ranks today with my ambush deck, im no genius in deck building, but in nearly every match the opponent pretty much knew how to play around the ambush cards. The only wins i had was against newbies. Sure its not a sizeable pool of matches. But it drove home the points i made in the first post.

As for ST overall, i hope they get more diversity. From what i've seen it has a few honest decent decks. Personally im considering giving a "special buff dude" deck a try.
 
Here's my view of it

1. Well, that can easily be said for any combo in existence. Any player with some experience can deduce that much about any card played in any faction, if he has at least some knowledge about the game itself. Bar Nilfgaard, since it 's relatively new still.

2. Placed ambush cards have no direct counter at all, except for ST faction themselves (Moreen card), so other faction players can only watch how a n ambush card is placed and guess what it is. Are you familiar with Vrihedd Dragoon+ Blue Mountain Commando+Operator+ Toruviel+ Moreen combo hmm?

3. First you have to gain a massive lead to be able to pass which is not that easy as you put it here so I do not see that as a significant weakness
 
I think that when playing ambush cards you need to find other sinergies in your deck. You don't have to necessarily make a full ambush deck. FT works very well with neo decks; one of the advantage of this card is control (you can block medic cards pretty well, for example), an the other one is the neo. But if you don't profit from those neos the card is not a useful as should be.

Trappers, you don't use only for damage but for controlling enemy rows. Very usefuI againts monster, for example, who spawns multiple low strength units units on ranged and front row. Or againts NR self replicating cards. If they are needed for damage, then using another card on enemy row will do the trick (Again, Iris is a neutral card with very good sinesgy on this, you trigger the trap, killing Iris and damaging/killing other units, and your own units are buffed with +3).

Ciaran is your joker. His strength is, apart from card advantage, that you can fool the opponent with him.

Toruviel must be on a row where she can make a difference, but you shouldn't be very obvious about it. A buffed Toruviel on a row with just two or three low strenght units, like neos or BMC, can give you the victory all the same (but remember to count your FTs, if you have spent three of them by the time you've played Toruviel the opponent will know it).

Maybe I'm saying things you already know. In any case, why don't you share your deck or post on the ST strategies thread?

 
My point of view is similar to the author.
But i don't know how to solve this problem cause if the play and the card itself would be invisible... well i don't know it's just that i don't like the idea but can't say why....
Putting them on an extra row seems pretty good to me but I'm not sure if the devs really would make such a great change this "late". And i really hope that the future will bring us some new ambush cards, that would make the game more interesting and give us more ways to play the Scoia deck. (I fully agree with the point that the SCO in compare to the other factions are now a lot worser...)

About your 3. point: That's sth i see more often early in the game, when my opponent recognize my ambush cards. It would be great if there would be a card which can trigger the ability of ambush cards too or at least to trigger the ambush cards automaticaly when the other passed, like ziphius said.
 
Surla;n7715840 said:
Here's my view of it

1. Well, that can easily be said for any combo in existence. Any player with some experience can deduce that much about any card played in any faction, if he has at least some knowledge about the game itself. Bar Nilfgaard, since it 's relatively new still.

2. Placed ambush cards have no direct counter at all, except for ST faction themselves (Moreen card), so other faction players can only watch how a n ambush card is placed and guess what it is. Are you familiar with Vrihedd Dragoon+ Blue Mountain Commando+Operator+ Toruviel+ Moreen combo hmm?

3. First you have to gain a massive lead to be able to pass which is not that easy as you put it here so I do not see that as a significant weakness

The opponent gets a massive lead automatically if he plays around your traps as unrevealed traps counts for 0 points.
If your traps are not triggered, you loose a ton of points. Its one thing for the opponent to do so, but another when its relatively easy to do so.
This is why alot of people manage to get a decent point advantage and thus just pass when im playing an ambush deck.

I am also geniunly not a very good player. Im just ranting about my thoughts about ambush cards :)

I dont know the combo you're describing, i dont have the operator card. In fact i lack many of the outstanding cards (i do have a few of them) that streamers use in their decks (gold\silvers).


Thanks for the input from people obviously desiring to help :)

Noela. I'll make a post on the Tactics thread later. There aint enough ambush card to rely on it alone, so i do have another synergy. And yes i know the uses you mentioned :)
I'll also say that my current deck is everchanging as im testing various things out ^^
 
my problems with ambush cards after the patch are basically
1) a lack of variety, adding a few more namely more than can go on the enemies side would help against predicting which trap you've played. On a side note, someone did give me the idea recently to put ciarin on the enemy side after using him for card advantage so the opponent thinks its a trapper. you could then use morenn to destroy him getting 4 value instead of 1.

2) Although I see their reasoning for changing the values of traps for balance reasons I disagree with them. fireball trap is technically a 7str swing now where it use to only be 6, but I never used it before simply for the strength value. I used it to deny my opponent card triggers like medics, card draws, strength buffs etc. and at only 3 damage it is much worse at doing that now. I would much prefer a trap that does no damage, but locks the card so they don't get its effect. trapper is also objectively worse, but to a lesser extent. it can still do solid damage if it goes off on a full row, but if it only takes out one small unit like a foglet you end up giving your opponent more strength.. Again I'm less unhappy about this card, but its still disappointing from what it was.

I've been trying to play and tweak my ST control deck since the patch and it has definitely taken a big dive in viability :(
 
zhiphius;n7717210 said:
I dont know the combo you're describing, i dont have the operator card. In fact i lack many of the outstanding cards (i do have a few of them) that streamers use in their decks (gold\silvers).

I don't like that combo, but here you go:
Basically you buff Toruviel with your vri dragoons, reusing the vri dragoons with the BCM. Then duplicate Toruviel with operator. You'll have two Toruviels, with a max value of...hmm...30 points each. When opponent plays Toruviel, you kill her with Morenn.
 
Agree that another row, perhaps to the side, would be very useful for playing ambush cards. Hope developers consider this and make the change because I agree that those familiar with the cards can guess - I have - and evade them entirely.
 
i think op is in need of morenn

this card is a must have for many trap decks because it can make you easily win the round

but for 800 scraps it is only avaiable for pay2win players ofc
 
Not enough talk here about Ciaran. If you play an Ambush-focused deck, this guy is nuts. He acts like a vanilla Toruviel and doesn't get countered by your opponent passing early (his strength is added to the overall score at the end of the round) and can be buffed similarly with the popular Vrihedd Dragoon setup. Additionally, he serves as early game CA, and fakes out multiple different Ambushes. At the higher end it will usually deter any special card plays even if you don't have Schirru or Ida up. And lastly, if you really want to play Dol Blathanna Trapper, he can fake them out too (although you'd want to let them have the round for denying CA).
 
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