Will there be full Scrap refunds for changed cards in Open Beta?

[WaffleDee]

Will there be full Scrap refunds for changed cards in Open Beta?

Right now we're still in closed beta with an upcoming wipe, so it's not a problem yet. But afterwards, people are going to be quite annoyed if they spend all their scraps on a card that gets nerfed. Are there plans to implement a scrap refund system like in hearthstone?

 

[4RM3D]

That seems fair, but I am not sure if the devs will implement it.

 

[pl91]

as i always said,i predict that it will depend on the amount of changes in each patch.you bring hearthstone as an example,but blizzard 1)only nerfs cards,never buffs(on the contrary to CDPR),2)they only change maximum 10-15 cards PER YEAR.if CDPR plans on changing 30-40 cards per patch,then i doubt they will give refunds for so many cards,plus a nerfed card may get buffed in a following patch(kinda like the way riot games changes the champions stats and abilities in league of legends,this patch there is a nerf,next patch there is a buff,for the same character/card).it would suck to mill a card that got nerfed,only for it to get buffed in the next patch,wouldnt it?

anyway thats just my prediction(and i hope that it will become reality),that they will keep tweaking lots of cards to keep the game balanced,even though not giving refunds.

 

[Mombamambo]

They will probably refund nerfed cards, the outrage after each patch would be more detrimetal to the future of the game than the marginal profits they would earn. At least that is what I imagine.

 

[RickMelethron]

blizzard 1)only nerfs cards,never buffs(on the contrary to CDPR

that's because the game is in beta... you know, when things are supposed to be constantly changed for better or worse...

2)they only change maximum 10-15 cards PER YEAR.if CDPR plans on changing 30-40 cards per patch,then i doubt they will give refunds for so many cards,plus a nerfed card may get buffed in a following patc

read above.

(kinda like the way riot games changes the champions stats and abilities in league of legends,this patch there is a nerf,next patch there is a buff,for the same character/card)

completely different type of game...

it would suck to mill a card that got nerfed,only for it to get buffed in the next patch,wouldnt it?

you'd get to mill cards for their full price when they are nerfed, so if they're buffed again, you can simply craft them back.

 

[pl91]

that's because the game is in beta... you know, when things are supposed to be constantly changed for better or worse...

that doesnt cancel my point,if CDPR continues with this policy,to buff and nerf cards at the same time.

read above.

again,IF they decide to continue with the same policy(at a smaller extent of course),then there wont be a point in giving refunds for lots of cards.so far we dont have any indication,that they will suddenly stop balancing the game patch after patch,at a smaller extent.if that changes then we can discuss again.(btw if they decide to do lots of balance changes,AND give refunds,its fine by m ).

completely different type of game...

forgive me but i fail to see how its different in terms of balancing.at the end of the day its numerical values tied to characters that change.in both games,when you nerf a character you weaken his values(either decreasing positive stats,or increasing negative stats),and when you buff a character you strengthen him.how is that "completely different"?the fact that one is a moba and the other a ccg,doesnt mean that the one will always be unbalanced and the other wont.

you'd get to mill cards for their full price when they are nerfed, so if they're buffed again, you can simply craft them back.

what if you milled the nerfed card,then crafted a different card,then nerfed card is buffed again??are you gonna ask a refund for the card you crafted?

lastly,the "you's" are not referred to you in particular but all players,i mean no offense in any way .

 

[DMaster2]

1) that doesnt cancel my point,if CDPR continues with this policy,to buff and nerf cards at the same time.



2) again,IF they decide to continue with the same policy(at a smaller extent of course),then there wont be a point in giving refunds for lots of cards.so far we dont have any indication,that they will suddenly stop balancing the game patch after patch,at a smaller extent.if that changes then we can discuss again.(btw if they decide to do lots of balance changes,AND give refunds,its fine by m ).



forgive me but i fail to see how its different in terms of balancing.at the end of the day its numerical values tied to characters that change.in both games,when you nerf a character you weaken his values(either decreasing positive stats,or increasing negative stats),and when you buff a character you strengthen him.how is that "completely different"?the fact that one is a moba and the other a ccg,doesnt mean that the one will always be unbalanced and the other wont.



3) what if you milled the nerfed card,then crafted a different card,then nerfed card is buffed again??are you gonna ask a refund for the card you crafted?

lastly,the "you's" are not referred to you in particular but all players,i mean no offense in any way .

1) You don't get full refund for buffs. Why should you? So the effect of buffs is irrilevant to the discussion. As for the nerf refunds, they are pretty much a necessity because the vast majority of the players like it or not is gonna be f2p so having to waste weeks (or months) of efforts toward a deck that soon get nerfed into oblivion because of a nerf or two would not be well received

2) Why should they just stop balancing with a scrap refund policy? Only because greedy blizzard do it? Beside there are options like refund only for crafted cards to alleviate the issue and still make it fair for the players

3) Then he should just shut up and collect scraps back, nothing is due in that case.

 

[pl91]

1) You don't get full refund for buffs. Why should you? So the effect of buffs is irrilevant to the discussion. As for the nerf refunds, they are pretty much a necessity because the vast majority of the players like it or not is gonna be f2p so having to waste weeks (or months) of efforts toward a deck that soon get nerfed into oblivion because of a nerf or two would not be well received

2) Why should they just stop balancing with a scrap refund policy? Only because greedy blizzard do it? Beside there are options like refund only for crafted cards to alleviate the issue and still make it fair for the players

3) Then he should just shut up and collect scraps back, nothing is due in that case.

blizzard gives refunds exactly because they nerf cards into oblivion.if correct balancing is achieved then why would you want to mill a properly balanced card?if CDPR starts nerfing cards into oblivion,then i dont care about refunds,il just quit the game.

if they balance the game correctly,nerfing overpowered cards to make them balanced,and buffing underpowered cards to make them balanced,then there is no reason to mill the nerfed/buffed card in the first place since its balanced,and at the same power level as the rest.which makes this entire conversation obsolete.

 

[RickMelethron]

that doesnt cancel my point,if CDPR continues with this policy,to buff and nerf cards at the same time.

there is no "policy" to begin with...

what if you milled the nerfed card,then crafted a different card,then nerfed card is buffed again??are you gonna ask a refund for the card you crafted?

then you didn't lose anything, you simply exchanged one card for another. and if you want the first card, you can just farm some scraps and craft it again.

forgive me but i fail to see how its different in terms of balancing.at the end of the day its numerical values tied to characters that change.in both games,when you nerf a character you weaken his values(either decreasing positive stats,or increasing negative stats),and when you buff a character you strengthen him.how is that "completely different"?the fact that one is a moba and the other a ccg,doesnt mean that the one will always be unbalanced and the other wont.

because in a moba, the character's power is only based on that character itself.
in a card game, the power of a card depends on the whole deck. if they keep buffing and nerfing cards, they will be changing entire decks, and that would be very painful for players with smaller collections.

it's much easier to have 10 LoL heroes in case one gets nerfed than to have 10 gwent decks... also LOL has the rotation system, so they can, in theory, offset the downsides by having some of the most powerful heroes in the rotation.

 

[pl91]

there is no "policy" to begin with...



then you didn't lose anything, you simply exchanged one card for another. and if you want the first card, you can just farm some scraps and craft it again.



because in a moba, the character's power is only based on that character itself.
in a card game, the power of a card depends on the whole deck. if they keep buffing and nerfing cards, they will be changing entire decks, and that would be very painful for players with smaller collections.

it's much easier to have 10 LoL heroes in case one gets nerfed than to have 10 gwent decks... also LOL has the rotation system, so they can, in theory, offset the downsides by having some of the most powerful heroes in the rotation.

i guess we can just w8 and see ,no point iin arguing over something that may or may not happen!

 

[RickMelethron]

i guess we can just w8 and see ,no point iin arguing over something that may or may not happen!

it won't

 

[4RM3D]

Fact: If CDPR does not refund scraps for cards that have been changed, players will leave and it will have a negative impact on the game.

First, we have to take look at the two phases:
- Closed Beta
- Open Beta

Closed Beta
Currently, in the closed beta, with every patch, half of the cards are changed and new mechanisms are introduced. It's almost like a whole new game. To be honest, the devs should just have given the option to mill cards at full value in closed beta or at least up to one week after a balance patch, for the sake of testing because the card collection is reset anyhow.

Open Beta
The idea is that open beta will be a lot more stable and massive changes shouldn't happen. In that case, it's easier to refund cards that have been changed. For those F2P players that finally crafted a legendary, only to have it changed the week after without compensation, is definitely not okay. At the very least the devs should refund scraps for cards that have been changed.

Even if the devs would refund such cards, there can still be collateral damage. Like someone crafting another legendary to work with a legendary that was nerfed. And that person would rather have both cards refunded, instead of just one. There is nothing that can be done about situations like this. It's a shame, but it doesn't need to be fixed.

A few things should be noted:
- The devs could only refund cards that were crafted (instead of those that are acquired from kegs).
- The devs should refund changed cards rather than nerfed cards, because sometimes it's difficult to tell whether a change is a nerf.

 

[pl91]

just a little thought,that giving a refund implies that the developer did something wrong(at least in my mind).balancing their game is not something the devs should give refunds for(or apologise or anything like that),its something they should be applauded for.

thats all from me .

 

[DMaster2]

just a little thought,that giving a refund implies that the developer did something wrong(at least in my mind).balancing their game is not something the devs should give refunds for(or apologise or anything like that),its something they should be applauded for.

thats all from me .

Everyone wants good and periodic balance patches (main complain on hearthstone forum for example). But people have to understand that if a person grind scraps for weeks to craft a leg for their deck and said leg in a week get nerfed, they aren't going to be happy one bit. The refund works like a consolation prize to aknowledge their effort wasn't in vain.

One thing for certain, people WILL get really angry if there will be no refund system in place for OB

 

[Archpriest]

Everyone wants good and periodic balance patches (main complain on hearthstone forum for example). But people have to understand that if a person grind scraps for weeks to craft a leg for their deck and said leg in a week get nerfed, they aren't going to be happy one bit. The refund works like a consolation prize to aknowledge their effort wasn't in vain.

One thing for certain, people WILL get really angry if there will be no refund system in place for OB

Don't you think that double standards are applied here? If you going to craft Yencon because she's that good and then she gets nerfed, you should blame yourself. should've seen this coming.
And no, as long as the card hasn't been completely reworked, I don't see why people should get refunds.
Also, Shall the devs charge additional scraps if the card was buffed?

 

[DMaster2]

Don't you think that double standards are applied here? If you going to craft Yencon because she's that good and then she gets nerfed, you should blame yourself. should've seen this coming.
And no, as long as the card hasn't been completely reworked, I don't see why people should get refunds.
Also, Shall the devs charge additional scraps if the card was buffed?

Why should i be blamed if i craft a GOOD card? Am i supposed to craft bad ones so i can be safe from nerfs? It's a nonsense.

 

[4RM3D]

Don't you think that double standards are applied here?

There is no double standard because it doesn't work the other way around.

should've seen this coming.

That's a silly argument. You do not know what the devs have planned. YenCon is a good card, yes. But do you have any idea whether or not it will be nerfed? No. And even if you could predict it, does that mean you can't use the card? No, the devs are at fault for creating an OP card, not the player for crafting it.

 

[Archpriest]

I think the point is missing here: if for some reason a card is THAT good (if you know what I mean), one should fully expexlct it to be nerfed and if he decides to craft it anyway, that's on him..

 

[DMaster2]

I think the point is missing here: if for some reason a card is THAT good (if you know what I mean), one should fully expexlct it to be nerfed and if he decides to craft it anyway, that's on him..

No one can predict if a nerf will ever come. For example people waited for years to a nerf on Dr. Boom (in hearthstone). In the end it never happened and now never will.
People will craft the cards that will help them win games, and you can't really blame them for that.
If i craft Yencon because it helps my deck improve and one week later she get nerfed why should i get punished?

 

[Archpriest]

No one can predict if a nerf will ever come. For example people waited for years to a nerf on Dr. Boom (in hearthstone). In the end it never happened and now never will.
People will craft the cards that will help them win games, and you can't really blame them for that.
If i craft Yencon because it helps my deck improve and one week later she get nerfed why should i get punished?

Why punished? It was pointed out, especially now, this is closed beta. Plus, as I wrote before, if the card hasn't been reworked then no refundcis warranted.

And if someone decides to craft an OP card to ride it till it's nerfed...well.