The problem with tech cards that are universally good and the new mardroeme

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The problem with tech cards that are universally good and the new mardroeme

If we go back a couple patches, we had the release of mardroeme. It gave a target +4 or -4 base strength and it was run in basically every deck because regardless of the matchup or board state (barring a last round draw with nothing on the board), it was never a bad card. SK + NR could always use the base strength for their revives, monsters could use it for their foglets (consume wasnt any good yet) or ST could play it out with bouncable mercs which made it a good tempo play regardless. Everyone could also just run roach/olgierd or just debuff their opponents units (alot of would be good cards were at 4 strength) to make it universally a great card. It was obviously problematic as everyone was running at least 2 of them, so it got nerfed by 1 strength value and as it turns out that modifying base strength is such a strong mechanic that the 1 point nerf was enough to push it to a fringe tech card. Which Im going to argue is ok, because again, modifying base strength is such a strong mechanic that when those cards are strong, they dictate the entire meta.

With the new mardroeme incoming, we have the old + or - 3 base strength, but the card now gets dshackles old effect of resetting a card to base strength before it does so. So if we compare it to old marderome, it lost 1 base strength to be able to generate huge swings against certain decks. This is again going to push mardroeme into the realm of being a tech card that is universally great, and as such its going to oppress any deck that relies on buffing big cards while still being at least an ok draw against other decks. Every faction has some form of deck that buffs big units (impera brigade\spotters, pirate captain\axemen, siege towers, hawker support/smuggler/eleyas, lots of consume targets) and those decks already have strong counters in the form of gigni, scorch, dbomb etc. Throw in a great tech card like mardroeme and these decks are going to struggle even more. New mardreome is still going to be an ok play if you are running a deck with revives/roach etc or if you are running new rag (which also looks amazing).

To be clear, I think there should absolutely be a card that resets bronze strength, and there should be cards that modify base strength, but combining too many of these effects together in one card creates a situation where the card is run regardless of your deck's strategy/win condition and that oppresses too many other cards/decks. The only other really universal tech card in the game right now is first light (option between shutting down weather or playing a unit/maintaining tempo), and that would be problematic as well if weather wasn't so oppressive itself in its current form. You could argue new dshackles is also universally good, but it at least provides you with zero strength/tempo so it has some downside. Mardroeme still provides you with either mediocre (but not awful) tempo, or it gives you a massive swing.
 
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I agree. Though it's difficult to balance a neutral card so that not everyone wants to use it, but it's still good enough to be included in a lot of decks. Mardroeme is in a tricky spot. Still, it is now similar to D-shackles, except that D-shackles (un)locks and Mardroeme (de)buffs. I guess certain decks rather want to use D-shackles than Mardroeme. That's one way to make sure not everyone is running Mardroeme; to make another similar card with slight variations.
 
Maybe I lack the imagination here, but could you give me an example on how the new maerdrome would lead to a similar situation as the old one? I always though that for the old one the culprit was Poor infantry - and than everybody had to run maerdrome as a counter - but without the PFI deck maerdrome would never have become so popular.
With revive mechanics it creates more value over time of course, but wouldn't that be properly adjusted with 3 str? Bronze vanilla is 8, so to get 9 out of it, you need to play in r1 and revive 2x, so enough conditions for that.
Some combos create more value from it, roach is "easier" to revive, or NR can still duplicate, but even MS consume would just get 6 out of it after consume from board and graveyard - but I don't expect this to lead to such insane combos like PFI?
Might shift a bit with the average powers on the board going down, but still...
 
4RM3D;n8151980 said:
I agree. Though it's difficult to balance a neutral card so that not everyone wants to use it, but it's still good enough to be included in a lot of decks. Mardroeme is in a tricky spot. Still, it is now similar to D-shackles, except that D-shackles (un)locks and Mardroeme (de)buffs. I guess certain decks rather want to use D-shackles than Mardroeme. That's one way to make sure not everyone is running Mardroeme; to make another similar card with slight variations.

They just need to reduce the cards flexibility and be careful going forwards with card design. With buffing units being such a major deck archetype in the game, you should have to make sacrifices to tech against it. Scorch for instance at least doesn't put any power on the board and can be pretty mediocre against other types of decks. Same goes for Dbomb.
 
Superpueppi;n8152110 said:
Maybe I lack the imagination here, but could you give me an example on how the new maerdrome would lead to a similar situation as the old one? I always though that for the old one the culprit was Poor infantry - and than everybody had to run maerdrome as a counter - but without the PFI deck maerdrome would never have become so popular.
With revive mechanics it creates more value over time of course, but wouldn't that be properly adjusted with 3 str? Bronze vanilla is 8, so to get 9 out of it, you need to play in r1 and revive 2x, so enough conditions for that.
Some combos create more value from it, roach is "easier" to revive, or NR can still duplicate, but even MS consume would just get 6 out of it after consume from board and graveyard - but I don't expect this to lead to such insane combos like PFI?
Might shift a bit with the average powers on the board going down, but still...

PFI wasnt the biggest issue with old mard. At higher rankings, it started to fall out of favor towards the end of the patch cycle but mard was still everywhere because it was still a fantastic card and it still shut alot of cards out of the meta (anything 4 strength or less with an ongoing effect) while providing a solid point swing regardless.

You wont get old PFI with the new mard. Current 3 strength mard is an "ok" tech card. Its not good but its not awful either. Give it a very powerful effect like resetting to base strength on top of what it already has, and you have a card that is just too easy to run in any deck while directly countering a good chunk of the card pool that many decks rely on as win conditions.
 
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I thought it would be reset to base and +-2 base str, not 3? Looks more than OK in this form.
 
idomyownstunts;n8153780 said:
Please no one Madroeme me undies. They're all at 1 base strength and that's made up of the stains and duct tape.

I can't believe I logged in just to give you a red point for that silly joke... still... made me laugh :)
 
Superpueppi It won't work exactly the same as the old Mardrome be could end up being even stronger.
It'll reset a Nekker for example then Banish it so the Nekker chain stops right there and they'll need to draw another.
Theres a lot of units that rely on buffing themselves or others so it's almost always going to do more then a basic 8 point bronze unit and can easily get into the +20's of value.
It can also be used to "heal" one of your injured or weathered units to their base strength +3 which is also extremely strong, Reviving those cards are just icing on the cake
 
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