Questions/Concerns re: Card Packs

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Questions/Concerns re: Card Packs

I have several questions, or rather concerns, regarding the sale of card packs.

- What is the total cost of purchasing all cards available within the game?
- How many card packs must be opened to obtain all cards available?
- How many cards are there in each deck, and will more be added in the future?
- Are picks selected from cards not yet owned, or are infinite duplicates possible?
- Doubtful, but what is the probability of obtaining bronze, silver, and gold cards?
- How many cards of each type are in each deck?

Thanks.
 
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You wont get a lot of the 800 scrap cards, but you will get a good selection of epics, rares, and commons from a 60 keg pack. If you are going to buy cards, do it before you ever buy a card with scraps since there is a chance you can pull it from a keg.

The biggest advantage of buying cards is you will fill out your common and rare cards very quickly and are able to generate almost pure scraps from your daily win kegs for legendary cards you want.

I already purchased plenty of kegs because I know I would in the future anyway, and they are most effective on day 1 with an empty collection.

Bottom line is if you will ever buy kegs, then now is the best time to do it. There is nothing wrong with taking your time collecting with FTP if that is your style.

Your questions are hard to give an exact number to. The stats recorded by others are all over the internet if you run a search. (Something like "Gwent keg drop rates") For a complete collection with no time invested I'd hazard a guess at around $300 - $500. Life Coach bought a ton of cards is first week, see if you can find out how much he spent to get a very full collection.
 
PrincessMassacre;n8384360 said:
- What is the total cost of purchasing all cards available within the game?
- How many card packs must be opened to obtain all cards available?

You'll need to spent about $500. There was a thread explanation everything in detail, but I cannot find it atm.

PrincessMassacre;n8384360 said:
- How many cards are there in each deck, and will more be added in the future?
- How many cards of each type are in each deck?

Check http://www.gwentdb.com/ and yes, more cards will be added. CDPR stated they want to release new cards every 2 months.

PrincessMassacre;n8384360 said:
- Are picks selected from cards not yet owned, or are infinite duplicates possible?

Duplicates are possible. They can be milled for scraps to craft specific cards.

PrincessMassacre;n8384360 said:
- Doubtful, but what is the probability of obtaining bronze, silver, and gold cards?

Check http://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...ons-aa/6901480-stats-kegs-ratio-and-drop-rate for an indication.

 
IAxiiYourMother;n8384630 said:
The biggest advantage of buying cards is you will fill out your common and rare cards very quickly and are able to generate almost pure scraps from your daily win kegs for legendary cards you want.

4RM3D;n8386800 said:
Duplicates are possible. They can be milled for scraps to craft specific cards.

- Are picks selected from cards not yet owned, or are infinite duplicates possible?

So what you're saying is that duplicates convert to scraps? That's disturbing news indeed, it's simply gambling. ;o

I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed trading of duplicates, as these things often go, it's just another gimmick though.

4RM3D;n8386800 said:
You'll need to spent about $500. There was a thread explanation everything in detail, but I cannot find it atm.

Is there an exact figure, or does the price vary according to RNG aka probability and duplicates?

4RM3D;n8386800 said:
CDPR stated they want to release new cards every 2 months.

Thus increasing the price of the product incrementally.

You might want to get someone at CDPR to look at this issue.

In the interests of 'fair' trade (since they're so concerned about 'all fairness'), the product's price should be prominently displayed. The product's price should not vary according to some magical RNG formula only the developers know. Furthermore, more than $100/200 is beyond reasonable (minus the cards you can earn for free in less than 3-6 months). Maybe even that is too much. You should be able to remain competitive at even $50 contribution.

Allow me to paraphrase one of my forum tag lines: "Disregard skill, acquire items" - that is the P2W formula.
 
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PrincessMassacre;n8387740 said:
So what you're saying is that duplicates convert to scraps? That's disturbing news indeed, it's simply gambling. ;o

*massive snip*

Allow me to paraphrase one of my forum tag lines: "Disregard skill, acquire items" - that is the P2W formula.

Oh boy...

If you are going to take this route, then I really suggest looking at the Is Gwent P2W thread. Well, the thread is a bit long so I am going to summarize it for you.

Gwent is a Free To Play Online Collectible Card Game (F2P CCG). As with (almost) every collectible card game, online or otherwise, one of the goals is to collect cards. You do this by buying booster packs. The F2P element is that you can get these booster packs when spending time instead of money. The fact that you can buy boosters and as such buy an advantage means the game is pay to win (P2W) in the strictest sense. However it's important to note that this applies to the whole F2P CCG genre. So it's pointless to argue whether or not Gwent is P2W. Instead you should compare the game with other CCG and ask how generous Gwent is. The conclusion is that Gwent is one of the most generous F2P CCG.

Your beef is not with Gwent, but with F2P CCG in general. If that's indeed the case, you should avoid the genre altogether and look elsewhere.

As for acquiring cards, it's all based on RNG. Releasing new cards is essential for keeping players invested, otherwise the game will grow stale and players will leave.

 
PrincessMassacre;n8387740 said:
So what you're saying is that duplicates convert to scraps? That's disturbing news indeed, it's simply gambling. ;o

google a little bit about the concept of gambling...

PrincessMassacre;n8387740 said:
Thus increasing the price of the product incrementally.
can say the same about a netflix subscription... PS: why are you so concernerd about the price of having all the cards? of all the TCG's i've ever heard (MTG, YGO, HS) having a full collection is nothing but a dream. (unless you played from day 1 and spent a bunch of money on packs)

PrincessMassacre;n8387740 said:
the product's price should be prominently displayed. The product's price should not vary according to some magical RNG formula only the developers know

the product you're buying are card packs; their price is very well established.

 
PrincessMassacre;n8387740 said:
In the interests of 'fair' trade (since they're so concerned about 'all fairness'), the product's price should be prominently displayed. The product's price should not vary according to some magical RNG formula only the developers know. Furthermore, more than $100/200 is beyond reasonable (minus the cards you can earn for free in less than 3-6 months). Maybe even that is too much. You should be able to remain competitive at even $50 contribution.
You can definitely get close to all the cards without spending money in 3-6 months doing two daily levels a day. Lets say 90 days.

90 x roughly 2.25 kegs a day + 75 scraps = 202 kegs + 6750 scrap. 202 kegs would cost you around $240 U.S. dollars if you paid for it. 6750 scraps will craft you 8 legendary cards. And I'm not even counting the scrap you get as a reward for increasing levels and ranks. You might not have all the cards for all the decks, but you'll definitely have most of them and competitive decks for every faction. And getting two daily levels is maybe 1-2 hours of time investment depending on your skill and luck. I've never spent a dime and have most of the cards after 5 months of beta. And I've had a couple periods when I didn't play that much. ME:A has been sucking up all my free time lately.
 
4RM3D;n8388000 said:
Oh boy... <snip> you should avoid the genre altogether and look elsewhere.

Internet 'expert' advice threads are always informative, thanks for the effort though (although I've read that one previously). It's just another form of collectible/tradeable item/card scheme, similar to Gashapon. Why would I compare it to other games which are obviously just as flawed? Is that legit justification for operating these schemes? To shift the blame to something else; a 'precedent' scheme?

You're right, I should avoid the game and genre altogether in that case. It's obviously not as 'fair' a business model as it so claims to be. Thanks for your time.

RickMelethron;n8388170 said:
the product you're buying are card packs; their price is very well established.

Card packs are only one product. The cost of the final product, or the final cost of the product, is unknown. In fact, it's legally a service and not a 'good' or product. If it were though, then this would be defined as lottery or gambling. Imagine if all shops required you to gamble for random products, lulz. Quite the shopping experience, very much informed consumer, wow.

Rawls;n8388190 said:
You can definitely get close to all the cards without spending money in 3-6 months doing two daily levels a day. Lets say 90 days.

90 days x how many hours, is the real question. Level progression is usually not linear, but exponential, requiring more time invested as you progress throughout ranks. 'Lets say' doesn't sound too reinsuring either. By all accounts here, 180 days minimum at the quoted amounts, as $250 is half of $500 to which more cards will be added, potentially requiring 1-2 years during more casual gameplay.

Anyways, all this talk of fairness made me laugh. /rant
 
PrincessMassacre;n8388810 said:
It's just another form of collectible/tradeable item/card scheme, similar to Gashapon. Why would I compare it to other games which are obviously just as flawed? Is that legit justification for operating these schemes? To shift the blame to something else; a 'precedent' scheme? [...] It's obviously not as 'fair' a business model as it so claims to be.

The first thing I always do in the P2W discussions is comparing Gwent to other CCG. That usually ends the counter-arguments pretty fast. Of course, if you then take it to the next level and talk about the whole genre and its business scheme, then it becomes a completely different discussion.

PrincessMassacre;n8388810 said:
You're right, I should avoid the game and genre altogether in that case. [...] Thanks for your time.

Well, at least you are consistent about it, which I can appreciate.


Looking at the gaming sector, there have been some recent changes in how studios try to make money. Back in the day, there was no F2P. Now with the rise of mobile gaming, F2P has become very popular and also practically every MMORPG switched from subscription-based to F2P, except for World of Warcraft. Online CCG have a far shorter history and only recently became viable and popular. Those games have a far more limited way of making money.

F2P is a valid business model that can attract different kind of players you normally wouldn't have gotten. However, unlike paid games, F2P monetization is far more complex and requires delicate balancing. Something many studios either don't understand or understand a bit too perfectly and try to abuse it. For MMORPG it's usually easy to spot whether or not they are P2W, simply by looking at the premium shop and check whether or not there are power items for sale (opposed to cosmetics and utility items). F2P CCG have less options to make money. If you would remove booster packs, then what still remains? Card backs and animated cards. But do you think that will be enough to support the devs?

There are rotten apples in the F2P CCG world, like there are in every segment. If you don't like the business practice in general, then that's okay. Even then you can still compare F2P CCG with each other and rank them from rotten to fresh. Gwent would be pretty fresh, even though that would no longer matter to you. In the end, I think the money balance Gwent is going for, is fine and acceptable. Everyone has a different threshold at which they think a game becomes P2W.

One final note. Online CCG at least have some F2P element, their offline (physical) counterpart is all about continuously buying booster packs. So I guess that's also a no-go for you.



 
I've played a few real abusive P2W games, ones that upped the ante every few weeks, old items became totally obsolete within a few months, and they cashed out at the end and just deleted everything. There was also hardly any way to earn new items. The company (DeNA) lost all of their reputation of course but they didn't care. I don't see CD Projekt Red as a company that would like to lose their reputation.

The only way to make a game like this totally not pay to win is to do exactly what CDPR is doing - allow people to earn cards in a very generous fashion.

Some of look forward to the new card releases...if you do not, if you want a game that always stays the same, never requiring you to buy any packs, try playing Gwent in The Witcher 3 instead.
 
CDPR has struck a good balance with how it is now imo. Buying the whole collection for a set investment would be "p2w" (i put that in quotation because i'm convinced that the game is deep enough that the best cards are only of limited value to you if you don't know how to play them). As it's now buying kegs gives you a nice head start but you still have to play, learn the game and be tactical about what to craft if you want to be competitive. F2p players can be competitve relatively quickly if they focus on one deck. I would say that's as fair as it can be without alienating one group of players.
 
PrincessMassacre;n8388810 said:
Internet 'expert' advice threads are always informative, thanks for the effort though (although I've read that one previously). It's just another form of collectible/tradeable item/card scheme, similar to Gashapon. Why would I compare it to other games which are obviously just as flawed? Is that legit justification for operating these schemes? To shift the blame to something else; a 'precedent' scheme?

feeling superior yet?

pro tip: using sensationalist words doesn't make anyone think less about the game, only makes you look salty and hyperbolic

PrincessMassacre;n8388810 said:
Card packs are only one product. The cost of the final product, or the final cost of the product, is unknown.

there is no final product; you're purchasing card packs to acquire cards and use the cards you have to build a deck.

that's like buying beer and not knowing how much it will cost to get drunk... you're not buying drunkenness, you're buying bottles of beer.
 
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RickMelethron;n8391070 said:
that's like buying beer and not knowing how much it will cost to get drunk... you're not buying drunkenness, you're buying bottles of beer.

This is, literally, the best analogy possible.

The price of the final product is, literally, 0$. The final product (the game) is there for anyone (with a beta key for now) to play for free.

You cannot say that people who buy packs will always win, therefore P2W. Obviously, if at day 1 one person buys 200$ in kegs and the other buys nothing, the guy that spent money will very likely win. The thing is, if the guy that did not spent money plays for long enough, his collection will soon be as strong as the buyer's collection, and both of you will stand in equal grounds. And as soon as you have a semi-full collection, pretty much every keg becomes 100% scraps. So, in case they release more cards, you'll probably have enough scraps to craft all the relevant ones anyway. You're not forced to open them all from kegs.

If you don't want to invest money, you have to invest time. Thats the rule for basically every F2P game, and to be honest, I can't see it being more fair. They made the game, so they should earn off it.
 
I would also add that there's a difference between a piss some companies want to promote as beer and the real deal. Can it be applied when Gwent is compared to other CCG games?
 
Most flawed analogy ever, since everyone knows exactly how much it costs to get drunk, and the purpose of alcohol is to get drunk and no other.

They're essentially Aristocratic business models (money buys power), and a betrayal to the Witcher series which are in fact staunchly anti-Aristocratic.

The alternative is to farm for months or years as a peasant slave, a captive will, servant mentality, a serf. The gaming industry has created 2 classes of player: inclusive and exclusive, haves and have nots, rich and poor, etc...

But remember, when you a rich man be, blame not yourself or your game, blame the devil or someone else instead; some Faustian logic.
 
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PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
Most flawed analogy ever, since everyone knows exactly how much it costs to get drunk,

really? then go ahead and tell me how much it costs for me to get drunk. without knowing my body mass, alcohol tolerance, metabolism level, or any other factor.

PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
and the purpose of alcohol is to get drunk and no other.

not if you're smart enough to realize that many people enjoy the savoring of certain alcoholic beverages (wine being the most common example)

PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
They're essentially Aristocratic business models (money buys power), and a betrayal to the Witcher series which are in fact staunchly anti-Aristocratic

what about the fact that a person who can't afford a good gaming PC is unable to play the witcher 3? ever thought about them..? i guess every gaming company in the world are just soulless elitists who don't care about the working folk... (or they're people working to make money. you know... like [nearly] everyone else on the planet.)

PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
The alternative is to farm for months or years as a peasant slave, a captive will, servant mentality, a serf

what did i tell you about sensationalism..? only makes you look salty and silly.

PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
The gaming industry has created 2 classes of player: inclusive and exclusive, haves and have nots, rich and poor, etc...
so... everything in a capitalist society ever... you'd be better spending your time campaigning against the food and health industries.

PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
But remember, when you a rich man be, blame not yourself or your game, blame the devil or someone else instead; some Faustian logic

or... understand that game developers are workers who need to pay bills, and they make games for that purpose. you're able to play the game for free as a token of gratitude, but in the end, the goal is to incentive people to spend money. otherwise, there won't be a game in the first place.

TLDR: you hate capitalism and the best you can do is vent your frustrations on videogame forums.
 
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PrincessMassacre;n8393320 said:
and the purpose of alcohol is to get drunk and no other.
Your premise is flawed. I frequently come home and have one glass of wine with dinner. I assure you that I do not get drunk. Also the rest of your argument commits the False dilemma fallacy. There are more than two options.

As a person who is completely a free to play player, I can say with confidence that your argument is also just factually incorrect. You can spend nothing, and still build a good hand playing an hour or so a night for a couple months. I know because I did it. I don't grind. I don't have time to.
 
RickMelethron;n8393430 said:
then go ahead and tell me how much it costs for me to get drunk. without knowing my body mass, alcohol tolerance, metabolism level, or any other factor. not if you're smart enough to realize that many people enjoy the savoring of certain alcoholic beverages (wine being the most common example)

Some sort of circular discussion, since you obviously know what it takes yourself to get drunk. I don't drink alcohol, but if they want to sip wine, then let the nobles sip wine. At least they know what they're buying. The rest of these arguments are but one fanatical fallacy after another. You might want to examine your own commentary for bits of sensational brine pickles.

Rawls;n8393470 said:
Your premise is flawed. I frequently come home and have one glass of wine with dinner. I assure you that I do not get drunk.

Actually, the purpose of alcohol is to get drunk. The purpose of sipping wine is to look important. Of course, simply because you enjoy the taste does not mean you are not getting drunk. You are, just not really drunk (hence, your premise is flawed). 1 glass of wine is enough to affect your mood. You know exactly why you buy it, despite what your motives are. It's also perfectly acceptable to drink wine just to get drunk, as most people do.

It's nice that you bring up the rest of my argument without even understanding what it all means.

Didn't mean to interrupt you sipping wine, sir.

Edit: Before long, we'll be comparing opening kegs to sipping wine.
 
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