Is Open Beta too Different from Closed Beta?

[Anen]

Is Open Beta too Different from Closed Beta?

Hello guys, this is some of question and something need to be discussed.
We have playing close beta for long enough, debating, discussing about card ability hard enough, arguing, and attacking sometimes.
at least OBT nearly coming.
but
have you seen youtuber that playing open beta feature? have you seen its card? or maybe card effect?
do you know any of it ability? do you know there is a big update like disabling faction passive? or giving a leader card place on battle field?

that big update is going to release in open beta. what close beta tester to you CPDR? (I'm not attacking) Our debating, arguing, getting warned from moderator mean nothing?
of course our build in our deck are useless in open beta we need to mix and match again from beginning.
I mean if you want that kind of feature in your game when open beta, why do you make this kind of feature (card effect, ability, soon) in close beta?
I just don't know about all of them, its like we will playing different card game in open beta and that is disappointed? and its 180 degree different with TW3 card game, or we can say, this card game is only use TW character on it.

 

[Rawls]

Anen title edited to reflect the topic you wish to discuss.

 

[kaalev]

Yea, it feels a completely different game to me. Nearly every card changed for open beta... I hope that's the first and the last time they do that. I prefer gradual changes.

 

[IAxiiYourMother]

This overhaul was necessary, and it is a great time to do it before heading to open beta.

They hit a home run on almost every game design concern I had:

• The game was so difficult to balance due to some archetypes synergising with faction abilities while others didn't. Now it is possible to tweak leader strength literally by adjusting their strength on top of adjusting their effects. Additionally, archetypes can keep some of the original faction ability while opening room for other archetype synergy. An example would be Consume Monster retaining its ability to save resilient strength from turn to turn while not forcing that ability onto a Wildhunt deck where it would be less optimal (hence not making consume the most competitive option regardless of other archetypes in the faction).
• We have an answer to ambush cards and ST card advantage shenanigans. Which while it was not game breaking it was not enjoyable to play against.
• For the first time every faction has a solid identity (looking at you NR).
• Everyone receiving additional mulligans between rounds makes the game more consistent and less reliant on RNG top decks.
• Symmetry in access to spies and locking units while maintaining a unique faction specific feel for each.
• Mages are capable of casting actual spells from the stories.
• Fringilla Vigo specifically, but another few vanilla cards got new abilities that reflect their importance in the stories and their art.
• The new keyword system looks great.
• Holly premiums batman.
• Currency reserved for unlocking premiums.
• Deck cost is reduced due to a limit of 4 gold 800 scrap cards per deck.
• Starting decks got beefed up so people can actually feel like they are playing the game in the first 2 weeks.

Yes these changes are drastic, but it is a huge credit to how committed CDPR is to making Gwent a successful and sustainable game. This was a huge cost expenditure from them to make all of these adjustments. What better time to overhaul than when they have finished experimenting with the closed beta? I would expect a similar smaller scale overhaul at the end of open beta.

Complaints I still have for anyone who cares to read them:

• Going first is even worse than it was before due to the new Brave and Craven tags.
• A reconnect feature should take 1 day for their programmers to add to the game; this should have been here months ago.
• Interface looks like it should be on a tablet and there are a lot of unnecessary loading screens.
• Crafting cards from deck builder would be handy.
• Memory leaks on less main stream hardware.

 

[zhiphius]

From what i heard\read\know a lot of the changes they made for public beta was actually suggested by players. Which is a good thing no?

Personally i look forward to public beta, once they balance blue stripes NR, QG skellige and monsters

 

[DMaster2]

I don't see why this is a negative? They took our feedback and made a better game. Many cards were useless, not unplayed just plain terrible while in OB there isn't a single terrible one. Sure many won't see much play (if any) but now there are no cards that are so bad they aren't good even for meme decks (look at you skjall).

 

[Iuliandrei]

Makes the game feel fresh, i love it these kind of changes.

 

[Nimraphel]

I am echoing iAxii on both the positives and negatives. I would particularly emphasize his relevant point about going first, and how it is potentially even worse now due to Brave/Craven tags. They really need to be careful here. The coinflip is already dangerously close to being a huge problem given how much it impacts winrates.

However, overall I am excited and optimistic, not so much by the actual changes as much as CDPR's obvious ambitions by making such drastic changes. No doubt they have "killed their darlings" in some cases, which is always hard even if it is for the better, and I am impressed by how bold and ambitious they are with the game.

If I were to list some negatives, it would be this:

1) The direction they took Reveal. They added a lot of utility to Reveal, seemingly adopting the stance saying "knowing your opponent's hand is not valuable enough on its own - you need interaction options too." Enter Sweers, Serrit, Leo Bonhart etc... In my opinion this is not the right way to go. Knowing your opponent's hand is invaluable. You can dictate tempo, know when to favourably pass, know when to apply pressure, when to back off... In itself reveal is already invaluable. Adding some really, really powerful utility like Serrit and Sweers to it is going too far, in my opinion.

2) Certain cards remain extreme hard-counters to entire archetypes. For Ladder this might not be an issue, but for tournament, cards like Letho of Gulet and Vicovaro Medic can single-handedly shut down a Queensguard Skellige player completely, and pretty much any Skellige deck in general. Griffin, Ghoul, Caretaker, Katakan has similar potential. For tournaments with sideboards (which is the ideal tournament, no sideboard is... meh), this makes Skellige a very risky gamble to bring, as your primary resource (the graveyard) is a liability.

3) Discard Skellige is too vulnerable, especially in a tournament setting. First off, your ships cannot die. They're your only real r1 tempo swing. If they die, you either lose out on tempo, or you cripple either partially or wholly your ress chain for later rounds, without which you cannot win. Second, your primary resource - the graveyard - is hugely susceptible to the above-stated cards, of which all except Ghouls are hardcounters.

Skellige could really use a "Valhalla" type of graveyard; creatures that die either in a round or at the end of a round earn their place in Valhalla, meaning they cannot be interacted with by the opposing player. Creatures that are discarded have not (yet) earned their place in Valhalla, therefore they are fair game.

 

[SickBrain80]

The changes all look interesting especially the weather.

My only complaint: Why cant i try it yet! I hate the wait ...

 

[IAxiiYourMother]

Nimraphel good points on SK, Queensguard is one of my favorite casual decks to play and their is always a huge sigh of relief when ST pops up as the opponent. There should be an SK card to mark cards as off limit (or maybe that would make the queen team too hard to interact with). NG shouldn't have the ability to dig into the opponent's grave yard since they can now reactivate spy abilities with other cards; it just confuses faction identity. (or only rez Nilfgaard units)

//sorry for hijack, back to discussing the impact of the big patch

 

[Jhinjie96]

Was suprised at the changes to NR rezzing but they didnt really have an identity so it makes sense, hope a radovid control variant comes about... With all these changes tho its like a new game, I dont reckon theyd make massive changes like this again or at least hope they dont.

 

[Trantyn]

I like most of the new changes except it looks like there are way too many agile cards, now.

 

[ibilibertas]

this overhaul was necessary, and it is a great time to do it before heading to open beta.

Spoiler

they hit a home run on almost every game design concern i had:

Spoiler

• the game was so difficult to balance due to some archetypes synergising with faction abilities while others didn't. Now it is possible to tweak leader strength literally by adjusting their strength on top of adjusting their effects. Additionally, archetypes can keep some of the original faction ability while opening room for other archetype synergy. An example would be consume monster retaining its ability to save resilient strength from turn to turn while not forcing that ability onto a wildhunt deck where it would be less optimal (hence not making consume the most competitive option regardless of other archetypes in the faction).
• we have an answer to ambush cards and st card advantage shenanigans. Which while it was not game breaking it was not enjoyable to play against.
• for the first time every faction has a solid identity (looking at you nr).
• everyone receiving additional mulligans between rounds makes the game more consistent and less reliant on rng top decks.
• symmetry in access to spies and locking units while maintaining a unique faction specific feel for each.
• mages are capable of casting actual spells from the stories.
• fringilla vigo specifically, but another few vanilla cards got new abilities that reflect their importance in the stories and their art.
• the new keyword system looks great.
• holly premiums batman.
• currency reserved for unlocking premiums.
• deck cost is reduced due to a limit of 4 gold 800 scrap cards per deck.
• starting decks got beefed up so people can actually feel like they are playing the game in the first 2 weeks.

yes these changes are drastic, but it is a huge credit to how committed cdpr is to making gwent a successful and sustainable game. This was a huge cost expenditure from them to make all of these adjustments. What better time to overhaul than when they have finished experimenting with the closed beta? I would expect a similar smaller scale overhaul at the end of open beta.

complaints i still have for anyone who cares to read them:

• going first is even worse than it was before due to the new brave and craven tags.
• a reconnect feature should take 1 day for their programmers to add to the game; this should have been here months ago.
• interface looks like it should be on a tablet and there are a lot of unnecessary loading screens.
• crafting cards from deck builder would be handy.
• memory leaks on less main stream hardware.

+1

 

[Anen]

Yea, it feels a completely different game to me. Nearly every card changed for open beta... I hope that's the first and the last time they do that. I prefer gradual changes.

no way that's the first time and the last time they do that, after changing, there must be another change to nerf, or improve card/s.

This overhaul was necessary, and it is a great time to do it before heading to open beta.
They hit a home run on almost every game design concern I had:The game was so difficult to balance due to some archetypes synergising with faction abilities while others didn't. Now it is possible to tweak leader strength literally by adjusting their strength on top of adjusting their effects. Additionally, archetypes can keep some of the original faction ability while opening room for other archetype synergy. An example would be Consume Monster retaining its ability to save resilient strength from turn to turn while not forcing that ability onto a Wildhunt deck where it would be less optimal (hence not making consume the most competitive option regardless of other archetypes in the faction). We have an answer to ambush cards and ST card advantage shenanigans. Which while it was not game breaking it was not enjoyable to play against. For the first time every faction has a solid identity (looking at you NR). Everyone receiving additional mulligans between rounds makes the game more consistent and less reliant on RNG top decks. Symmetry in access to spies and locking units while maintaining a unique faction specific feel for each. Mages are capable of casting actual spells from the stories. Fringilla Vigo specifically, but another few vanilla cards got new abilities that reflect their importance in the stories and their art. The new keyword system looks great. Holly premiums batman. Currency reserved for unlocking premiums. Deck cost is reduced due to a limit of 4 gold 800 scrap cards per deck. Starting decks got beefed up so people can actually feel like they are playing the game in the first 2 weeks. Yes these changes are drastic, but it is a huge credit to how committed CDPR is to making Gwent a successful and sustainable game. This was a huge cost expenditure from them to make all of these adjustments. What better time to overhaul than when they have finished experimenting with the closed beta? I would expect a similar smaller scale overhaul at the end of open beta.

are they giving up to make synergy to previous gwent?
with this version of gwent, people will use nilfgaard all nilfgaard. because their golem (Cynthia previous golem)
Previous gwent was fine, some faction hard to play, some easy or too easy. they just need to make easy faction become harder to play and its done.
with this change we need entire year again to discuss.
Making it public with fresh ability for entire faction? maybe some would say it wise.

From what i heard\read\know a lot of the changes they made for public beta was actually suggested by players. Which is a good thing no?
Personally i look forward to public beta, once they balance blue stripes NR, QG skellige and monsters

they just need to work for that 3 faction.
we have discussing about those faction, if they read.
not players but some player.
all new, and start to build your deck from the beginning.

I don't see why this is a negative? They took our feedback and made a better game. Many cards were useless, not unplayed just plain terrible while in OB there isn't a single terrible one

Who can promise that? a lot of cards made only some will have a place in your deck, and people usually will copy to another deck. just like before and another game, not all have place in gane.
you can look from consume monster deck.

The changes all look interesting especially the weather.
My only complaint: Why cant i try it yet! I hate the wait ...

I don't know about the changing yet. only some people can playing that feature. this close already 7 months, that long close beta only for making card balance.
and in the last minute they change all of them. maybe another change will come for 7 months.

so why they not make it open beta from the beginning?

 

[DMaster2]

Who can promise that? a lot of cards made only some will have a place in your deck, and people usually will copy to another deck. just like before and another game, not all have place in gane.
you can look from consume monster deck.

I don't need any promise i'm playing ccgs since a long time ago (mtg and yugioh) and i'm fairly decent at (at least) filtering out terribad cards when i see them. Well i don't see any of them in OB (unlike CB), many of them are good enough to see fringe or meme play. Just look at the new cow or skjall to grasp the concept.
That doesn't mean that most will see competitive play. We all know only the most powerful ones will. But the concept is that there isn't any outright terrible card and all can see play if you just want to have fun and try stuff out.

 

[Anen]

I don't need any promise i'm playing ccgs since a long time ago (mtg and yugioh) and i'm fairly decent at (at least) filtering out terribad cards when i see them. Well i don't see any of them in OB (unlike CB), many of them are good enough to see fringe or meme play. Just look at the new cow or skjall to grasp the concept.
That doesn't mean that most will see competitive play. We all know only the most powerful ones will. But the concept is that there isn't any outright terrible card and all can see play if you just want to have fun and try stuff out.

yup, me too. I like to play less played faction even it make me difficult to play.

in OB there isn't a single terrible one

. I just disagree with OBT when there is no terrible card, terrible card or less played card will always there. but there is a way to make it more playable