Succubus

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HenryGrosmont;n7880330 said:
That is correct. For a card like Sheldon Skaggs its net gain is 0. Its worth is 10.

Ah ok, I apologize I misunderstood what you mean by net gain. So if a succubus steal a unit that has 20 STR, what is her worth, 20, 12 or 32?

HenryGrosmont;n7880330 said:
Igni and Villentrettenmert gain is usually similar or comparable (for each) because of their ability and the way they played. Plus, they put value on your side of the board, 4 and 7 respectively. You won't play Scorch to burn your own card and the Bekker's mirror:

Putting value on your board or not has nothing to do with how situational the card is and how low their worth is compared to Succubus

HenryGrosmont;n7880330 said:
Which brings me to another: Succubus is Legendary Gold. Bekker's Mirror is epic and doesn't put any value for your opponent. Remember Phillipa? She can be devastating at times and so does Succubus. But both cards are highly situational. It's hard to recall other such instances.

Yes I agree Bekker's is good but I don't think it's better than succubus since it also has limitation of solving ties randomly. Bekker also mean that the enemy need to have a unit with the highest str, succubus does not have limitation like that. They are both equally good I guess it's just a matter of preference which one should be rarer. As for Philippa, it does not come close to succubus since she's even more situational. And Philippa does not add any value to your board it just reduce value from your opponent.
 
metalmaniac21;n7887860 said:
Is there any decks or concepts floating around based on control using Succubus which are not Wild Hunt in core?

By control you mean decks that are design to reduce the enemy STR? Control usually mean controlling the deck and your draw, but since you said Wildhunt, this is not possible :). I'm actually playing a consuming deck with succubus I use Nekker and Harpy. Here's my deck

http://www.gwentdb.com/deckbuilder/...:1:3;50088:1:3;50089:1:3;50091:2:3;50102:4:3;

Here's why I choose these card
- Geels because he's great with the harpies eggs and fire elemental
- Avalach and Kayran is self explanatory in this deck
- Succubus is to disrupt opponent and to screw deck that buff their units. She's kinda a beef up version of scorch
- Viletentremeth is great for the last stage or in any other stage where you are planning to use Kayran. You can also changed this with Bekkers Twisted Mirror
- The Crones are used to either get a quick win or a card advantages on round 2. Just use them in round 1 and then pass. your either win or get a 2 card advantages 1 card for a total of 22 str is insane
- Dimetrium bomb can work bothways here, either to keep kayran on the board or to debuff enemies
- Fire golem is of course to be combined with vran warrior for infinite consuming, it's also great to combo it with Geels
- Last wish because some times you get unlucky :). If you wan to remove, change it with either aeromancy or toad.
- I use monster nest instead of nekker warrior since they are more versatile and can be used for either the eggs, nekker or fire elemental.
- Nekker is self explanatory
- I use harpy instead of arachas because it's harder to counter. You at least need to counter 2 eggs, even then you still have 1 card with an str of 3. With Arachas the enemy need to only get rid of 1
- Ekkimara is self explanatory, they are really good to end your turn and get a massive unit on the next turn. I usually eat my vran.
 
Oh snap, that's a lot of scrap to grind for Kayran and crones. I guess I have to dial back to old foglet farm idea which also includes Goebbels. And no place for D-shackles devaules Succubus in mirror match with other fellow Kayrans. And dayum, that Villentretenmerth. You don't afraid to scorch your own pack?
 
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metalmaniac21;n7889240 said:
Oh snap, that's a lot of scrap to grind for Kayran and crones. I guess I have to dial back to old foglet farm idea which also includes Goebbels. And no place for D-shackles devaules Succubus in mirror match with other fellow Kayrans. And dayum, that Villentretenmerth. You don't afraid to scorch your own pack?

That's where kayran step in. of course you need to be careful of the enemy shackle or dimetrium. And Kayran is a must but Crones can be changed with anything else that synergies either with consume or geels. So unit like Gaunter or Toad is also good. Even commanders horn is good. Hell if you are desperate changed the crones with either nekker warrior or arachas :)
BTW this deck is pretty decent I got to the 3000 because of it.
 
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leonardo_santoso;n7889040 said:
Geels because he's great with the harpies eggs and fire elemental
while that is true, Geels is probably the worst monster leader, personally i think it should be changed to "add +4 strength to every unit on the row", basically a leader with a built in commander's horn, if +4 is too much, it could add 3, so while not beeing as good as commanders horn, it would still be useful at buffing a row full with many units without making it too vulnerable to Igni/scorch etc...
 
metalmaniac21;n7887860 said:
Is there any decks or concepts floating around based on control using Succubus which are not Wild Hunt in core?

Like Leonardo_Santoso said, if by control deck you mean reducing you opponent's strenght, I can only think of weather decks which is pretty garbage with Succubus unless you use a blizzard potion on the stolen unit.

But I think the Succubus is a must have in every monstrer deck except for weather one. You can also steal annoying units like Ocvist, Morkvarg or axeman for example.

And if you use Succubus to steal strong units from your opponent (axeman, consume units, buffed Mahakam defender, Skirmisher...) I suggest you to ALWAYS have Dudu in your deck. (200 scrap neutral silver unit) I never saw Dudu played in any opponent deck but since Succubus has a 2 turn timer you can play her then Dudu to copy the strength of the unit you want to steal so you have twice the strength, it's a great combo and work almost everytime. (only problem is Igni/Scorch)

Here's my deck. It's not perfect and I still need to craft the Caretaker to replace the Griffin and maybe Kayran (don't know if it would be usefull since I play a lot with Adrenaline Rush and I don't like the fact that I could spend a lot on Kayran to keep it on the board - D shakle, Adrenaline - to see him burn by Igni/Scorch) but it's pretty decent (70-75% winrate with it)

http://www.casimages.com/i/170222074547570176.jpg.html

Every cards in this deck is Purple (200scrap) or less except for Succubus and Caretaker if you want it

Of course you can improve it with your own playstyle but Succubus/Dudu is great in every deck IMO.
 
Esclive;n7891390 said:
Like Leonardo_Santoso said, if by control deck you mean reducing you opponent's strenght, I can only think of weather decks which is pretty garbage with Succubus unless you use a blizzard potion on the stolen unit.

But I think the Succubus is a must have in every monstrer deck except for weather one. You can also steal annoying units like Ocvist, Morkvarg or axeman for example.

And if you use Succubus to steal strong units from your opponent (axeman, consume units, buffed Mahakam defender, Skirmisher...) I suggest you to ALWAYS have Dudu in your deck. (200 scrap neutral silver unit) I never saw Dudu played in any opponent deck but since Succubus has a 2 turn timer you can play her then Dudu to copy the strength of the unit you want to steal so you have twice the strength, it's a great combo and work almost everytime. (only problem is Igni/Scorch)

Here's my deck. It's not perfect and I still need to craft the Caretaker to replace the Griffin and maybe Kayran (don't know if it would be usefull since I play a lot with Adrenaline Rush and I don't like the fact that I could spend a lot on Kayran to keep it on the board - D shakle, Adrenaline - to see him burn by Igni/Scorch) but it's pretty decent (70-75% winrate with it)

http://www.casimages.com/i/170222074547570176.jpg.html

Every cards in this deck is Purple (200scrap) or less except for Succubus and Caretaker if you want it

Of course you can improve it with your own playstyle but Succubus/Dudu is great in every deck IMO.

30 cards?!?!
Also, how do you deal with so many specials..that''s way too many for me.
 
KasumiGoto;n7891910 said:
30 cards?!?! Also, how do you deal with so many specials..that''s way too many for me.

Easy to explain even tho you'll probably disagree with me on the subject of card amount.

First of all, I think 25 cards is not enough. With only 25 cards I always feel like I miss something important. Plus IMO 25 cards min is not a healthy thing for a card game which should be based on RNG. I would be totally ok with CDPR putting the limit up to 30 cards or more.

Second The number of Special cards is pretty missleading. Let me explain.
- D Bomb is a must have in this meta.
- Double Cross can be considered as a unit.
- Alzur Thunder, Manticore Venom and Lacerate are just control since my units doesn't have control units.
- First light can also be considered are units and can still be usefull against Weather deck obviously.
- Adrenaline rush is usefull to KEEP units since I don't have many but strong ones on the battlefield. (keeping 25-30 str is always welcome)
- Blizzard potion is already removed but still don't know with what I should replace it.
- Epidemic is very usefull in a strong units deck like mine. (only problem is agaisnt priestesses, Priscilla...)
- I'm thinking about removing D shackles but still don't know with what I should replace it.
- Succubus is also a unit. even tho it's a Spy.
 
I don't think shackles should be removed. I mean, how will you deal with Kayran in mirror matches? Just trying to kill it off and miss a nice tasty piece of flesh worth of 25+ strength? And sometimes you have to destroy enemy's golden no matter how. Villen in round 3 for example.
 
Tungdilboindil;n7889880 said:
while that is true, Geels is probably the worst monster leader, personally i think it should be changed to "add +4 strength to every unit on the row", basically a leader with a built in commander's horn, if +4 is too much, it could add 3, so while not beeing as good as commanders horn, it would still be useful at buffing a row full with many units without making it too vulnerable to Igni/scorch etc...

If they changed geels to +3 to all I will be very happy :). In any fcase, vran can actually counter geels weakness pretty easily. Simply use Geels when vran countdown is one and the enemy will only be able to kill the vran. BTW, geels is not weak to scorch, if the highest unit has a power is 6, there's something wrong going on :)
 
metalmaniac21;n7892480 said:
I don't think shackles should be removed. I mean, how will you deal with Kayran in mirror matches? Just trying to kill it off and miss a nice tasty piece of flesh worth of 25+ strength?

Funny that you posted it cause I faced a Kayran just a few minutes ago and made my best move ever with Succubus/Dudu. I used D-Bomb on Caretaker/43str Kayran then Succubus and Dudu. In his first move in round one, my opponent played the Crones so I knew he had Kayran. That's why I don't really like this gold card, it's too predictable and there's a lot you can do to avoid a powerfull Kayran if you want to. (I didn't want to in this scenario but I could have)

http://www.casimages.com/i/170223080103556703.jpg.html

See how well Succubus/Dudu can work sometime? =D

And for the D-shackles I don't know. I think D-Bomb is enough but maybe not. Maybe I'll keep it.
 
leonardo_santoso;n7889040 said:
Here's my deck
Quite nice, I finally crafted Kayran (RIP sco'toel). Saying gaunter is good enough? I don't have any harpy-related stuff, so is nekkers+arachas toghether can be a good substitude? When and how to use Villentretentmerth in this kind of deck? What are good silver cards to replace? Dudu seems promising, johnny seems fitting if some goldens are not needed, Or I'm as always wrong?
 
Esclive;n7900240 said:
[...]Kayran. That's why I don't really like this gold card, it's too predictable and there's a lot you can do to avoid a powerfull Kayran if you want to. (I didn't want to in this scenario but I could have)

Kayran can only be countered by D-Bomb/Shackles or Bekker's Twisted Mirror (which no one plays). There are not that many options. Unless you are talking about eliminating strong monsters before Kayan can eat them. But in that war of attrition, you'll usually lose. Anyhow, D-Bomb is very strong in situations like this. Even more so when the opponent has Renew.

 
metalmaniac21;n7912420 said:
nekkers+arachas toghether can be a good substitude? When and how to use Villentretentmerth in this kind of deck? What are good silver cards to replace? Dudu seems promising, johnny seems fitting if some goldens are not needed, Or I'm as always wrong?

It depends on how you want to orientate your deck. If you want my opinion, try to not spread your deck too much with card who doesn't really fit well together. Since you're in a Succubus topic and you just crafted Kayran, you surely want to play around these cards. You can't really build around Succubus since it's a Spy unit but the best ways to play around Kayran is to either play with the 3 crones, a consume deck and/or Nekker/Nekker Warrion + Vran.

About Villentretentmerth, if you're building a consume deck I don't suggest you to play him since you'll have a lot of strong cards on the battlefield. Unless you're sure to have Kayran in your hand to save their strength and surprise your opponent. (even tho it should be obvious that you have Kayran if you play villent with powerfull units) If you have Kayran and Villent in you hand, wait untill the turn before he triggers to play Kayran and safe your units from the destruction so your opponent'll only have 1 turn to react.
In this scenario, Johnny can help to eliminate Villent if you can't prevent your units to be destroyed. But don't forget that you could have an opponent's gold instead and not Kayran.

And I forgot to mention it but even tho Dudu has a perfect combo with Succubus, they also work pretty well alone. Today I had both in my hand but my opponent (Skellige deck) discarded Morkvarg, Olgierd and a skirmisher with King Bran. So Mork came on the battlefield and the 2 others went to his graveyard. I then consumed his Olgierd with my Katakan so he started buffing his Morkvarg up to 10str. I used Succubus to steal it and I kept playing in round 2 while keeping 2 12+str units on the battlefield for round 3. So in round 3, I had 2 units + 6str morgvark and he resurrected his 20 str skirmisher. I just had to use Dudu on his Skirmisher to win. Dudu can also be really usefull alone.
I even think about replacing a silver card for the Operator to have 2 Dudu in my deck and use D-Shackle/D-Bomb on the one I give to my opponent.

ANYWAY if you could tell me your deck I could help to build it. OR JUST ADD Esclive ON GOG so we can talk more freely and stop spamming this thread initialy based on Succubus.

4RM3D;n7912480 said:
Kayran can only be countered by D-Bomb/Shackles or Bekker's Twisted Mirror

No, what I meant was not that there's a lot of things you can do to deal with an ALREADY PLAYED Kayran. His main ability is a keep a huge amount of strength untargetable unless you use D-Bomb/D-Shackles.
The thing is Kayran is really predictable. If your opponent uses Nekker/Vran, Crones or any Consume card, it's quite sure that he'll play Kayran unless he doesn't have it in his hand. So it's quite easy to avoid a powerfull Kayran by lowering every cards in your opponent's side. (if you have the possibility to do it) And while this topic is about Succubus, she's a great counter against him if you have a D-Bomb/D-Shackle. (as you can see in my previous comment)
 
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