Morkvarg Value?

[Ugralitan]

Morkvarg Value?

Morkvarg is a Skellige faction specific silver with 7 strength.

"When moved to graveyard, lose 2 base strength and resurrect."

I believe this card provides far more value then it should. Let us consider its base value without any additional base help:

- 7 strength for first round
- 6 strength for second round (+1 from Skellige)
- 5 strength for third round (+1 from Skellige)

Basically on a three round Marathon you get 18 value when simply combined with Skellige faction passive. Now let us say you buff its base for 2 strength in the first round. Things become:

- 9 strength for first round
- 8 strength for second round (+1 from Skellige)
- 7 strength for third round (+1 from Skellige)

Simply adding 2 base strength will increase total value of the card to 24. The card responds amazingly to base strength addition. Combined with Olgierd, it can present a more reliable alternative to resilience.

Of course this is a 800 scrap card and it could be harsh to resolve its total value around silver reference of 10 strenght. So let us take 12 strength for our reference.

- 5 strength for first round
- 4 strength for second round(+1 from Skellige)
- 3 strength for third round(+1 from Skellige)

Note: I specifically add faction bonus into consideration because Morkvarg is a faction-specific card.

Conclusion: Base strength of Morkvarg should be reduced to 5 in order to make him more palatable then its current iteration.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

Yehhh man seriously.. I mean

Monsters are keeping bronze buffed units like ancient foglet or ghoul etc. after every round that's ok I think.
Sco. keeping those bronze 10/11 strength 3 Mahakam Defenders for all 3 rounds that's fine too.
NG is keeping their high strength units with bronze engineer resilience ability is ok too or killing spy with rot tosser was really cool.
NR with so many passive ability bronze cards like reaver hunter or new tf soldiers was amazing to watch & Kaedweni Siege Support total 9 strength bronze was awesome too.

And on high ranks everyone is playing skellige so yes we need nerf. for skellige silver card Morkvarg :/

 

[isnadtochiev]

And on high ranks everyone is playing skellige

Well, i guess its an irony, however morkvarg+queensguard skellige is a common sight for me (Rank 13). Actually, that deck popularity is the main reason for my Letho deck to be able to stay afloat. Morkvarg is strong not because of him persisting over several rounds, but because its something you cant remove. Letho is litterally the only card in game that can get rid of it)

Conclusion: Base strength of Morkvarg should be reduced to 5 in order to make him more palatable then its current iteration.

Well, unit persisting over several rounds has a lower value than an immediate power swing. By your math, Mahakam defender is a 12 power bronze with a tag on it. Morkvarg power lies in his ability to be discarded and still bring power to the board. But i dont think its the Morkvarg who needs any changes. There are several unique cards like him an Priscilla, you know the guys. I dont think nerfing them is the right approach, them getting outstanding value is just a symptom. The illness is the lack of permanent removal a.k.a banish mechanic in game.

 

[devivre]

I agree with TH3WITCH3R on this. There's no need for a nerf.

Also keep in mind that the ST Zoltan epic card is gold, 5 strength and stays for all rounds. And Zoltan gets the Dwarf buff, so he usually is 6+ strength... every round, Plus you don't have to worry as much about weather.

If CDPR did nerf this card, anything below 6 would seem like a big mistake to me. But again, I'm very okay with 7. People now play this card more often which is great .

 

[GW3NTLORD]

Well, i guess its an irony, however morkvarg+queensguard skellige is a common sight for me (Rank 13). Actually, that deck popularity is the main reason for my Letho deck to be able to stay afloat. Morkvarg is strong not because of him persisting over several rounds, but because its something you cant remove. Letho is litterally the only card in game that can get rid of it)

1st of all it's a silver legendary card which requires 800 scraps to craft.
2nd you are now facing skellige on high rank not because of morkvarg but coz of queensguard & bran.
3rd every faction is having something like I mentioned above.

You can steal buffed morkvarg with succubus or he is not weather immune so in frost he is 1 strength card only & now if every other faction going to have easy solution for it then I think no one going to use that card so I think we should respect his legendary status

 

[Ugralitan]

Well, unit persisting over several rounds has a lower value than an immediate power swing. By your math, Mahakam defender is a 12 power bronze with a tag on it. Morkvarg power lies in his ability to be discarded and still bring power to the board. But i dont think its the Morkvarg who needs any changes. There are several unique cards like him an Priscilla, you know the guys. I dont think nerfing them is the right approach, them getting outstanding value is just a symptom. The illness is the lack of permanent removal a.k.a banish mechanic in game.

Though Mahakam defenders are not guaranteed to return back to field, they cannot survive most of the onslaughts. Furthermore for Morkvarg there are additional advantages:

- Morkvarg will persist even in-round (if destroyed) as long as he is not banished.
- Morkvarg can be played by discard due to his ability in exchange for 2 strength loss (in Bran's case 1 strength loss)

He has so many advantages wrapped in one package, hence I decided to put his value into discussion.

 

[NlelithZ44]

The problem with him right now is that you can't disrupt his ability well enough. It's SK primary target to buff base strength, and players don't carry much cards which can banish right from the board. I think he will be changed in some way, maby he'll stay in the graveyard until something triggers him to ressurect, so that players would have more options to steal him/banish from the graveyard. Maybe something along these lines: spawn 1 strength unit when sent to graveyard, who would need to be destroyed in order to resurrect Morkvarg.

 

[isnadtochiev]

1st of all it's a silver legendary card which requires 800 scraps to craft. 2nd you are now facing skellige on high rank not because of morkvarg but coz of queensguard & bran. 3rd every faction is having something like I mentioned above.
You can steal buffed morkvarg with succubus or he is not weather immune so in frost he is 1 strength card only & now if every other faction going to have easy solution for it then I think no one going to use that card so I think we should respect his legendary status

As i said, im not suggesting nerfing Morkvarg) Neither do i propose making a bronze banish or something. But if one is willing to invest a Gold slot to get rid of something for good, like with Letho - i dont see it as a trouble. Its a tech choice. Lets take a look at Assassination, for example. Does it see play? Nope. Its a trash tier card. But if it was "banish" instead of destroy - well, that might be usefull. As i allready suggested in other topics, such effect shall be exclusive to Gold cards only, to prevent it driving ressurection mechanic redundant. Give Imlerith, Iorveth, Roche, Triss "Base damage" or "Banish the unif if killed" and its all good.
Regarding his legendary status - well, other faction-specific legendary silvers are: Morenn - 200 scraps. Never seen it, if ambush stays ST only - never will. Grave hag - well, a trashy card, only works with card advatage, only works in last round, can go up to around 18 power. Has inherent power of 1, so she dies to a sneeze. Also, removal/dimeritium bait. Eleyas - a little better grave hag, same demdans for CA, similarily cant be played early, demands a deck tailored to him. Well at least his base power is 6. Seen that one go up to 28 in Isengrim deck. Also known as scorch/dimeritium bait. Nithral - if played alongside 6 WH units, he gets 18 power value. Its unreasonable to expect more, but a deck tailored to maximise him can get 26 value. Maaybe 28 if you can squeeze in Imlerith. That is - if you get a perfect hand, since you need Eredin as a leader, Nithral, Caranthir, WH riders and 3 WH warriors in hand. And remember, you have to commit all of that in 1 round, most likely round 1 since you cant really afford to draw WH riders. He laso dies to a bunch of removals, including bronze Alzurs. And cant be brought back. Thats right, a deck specificly tailored to utilize him gets an absolute maximum of him by commiting leader ability, 2 gold cards and 4 bronzes. And thats 28. Morkvarg gets 26 just if played from hand and shieldsmithed. Thats 1 silver + 1 bronze. And he cant be removed and immune to dimeritium. Plus he can be pulled by discard.
Im not entirely sure how you came up with colclusion that hes fine. The fact that im against nerfing him directly doesnt mean i think hes balanced. Actually, hes anything but.

 

[devivre]

The problem with him right now is that you can't disrupt his ability well enough. It's SK primary target to buff base strength, and players don't carry much cards which can banish right from the board.

Cards like Cleaver might be more useful if they prevented Morkvarg from automatically returning after the end of the round.

 

[RickMelethron]

1st of all it's a silver legendary card which requires 800 scraps to craft.

which is terrible reasoning IMO... we already have three tiers of power; bronze, silver and gold, saying more expensive cards should be more powerful goes against the point of having these...

the problem with morkvarg, as mentioned above, is the fact that it can't be removed. combine that with several skellige cards which buff base strength and you get huge value from him. way more than zoltan in ST (that one can be removed with certain cards)

there should be, IMO, a neutral card that can prevent these imediate graveyard effects. could simply be a lock which doesn't let abilities trigger in the graveyard, or a spy which banishes a unit but gain its strength (similar to letho, but with a higher base strength)

 

[Ugralitan]

In a CCG there was a mechanic named as "Nullify" where a nullified unit was stripped from card description and buffs. Of course, there are already buff stripping cards in Gwent. We just need lock to be total removal of card description.

 

[Ugralitan]

After some recent matches which utilized Morkvarg (especially after seeing someone using thrice-Mardroeme) I can safely consider that as the new popular cheesy method. He is actually as worse as glorious old PFI.

The card should definitely be lockable.

Or alternatively it should work like Olgierd.

 

[Dejma93]

This is getting to be quite boring actually. As soon as some strategy becomes popular, milion nerfthreads appear. Usually I tend to agree with most of them (Cow Tosser seems ridiculous to me), but this is certainly not that case.
I have been playing deck focused on buffing Morkvarg (along with Kambi/Hjalmar) since december and my peak rating with it was around 3400 (I do not play it anymore because I prefer somewhat interresting and unusual decks instead of the ones which can be seen every other match but that's another matter). Morkvarg himself is not a big deal IMHO, his strength lies in being practically unremovable, so he can be a major pain for Radovids hoping for double Villentretenmerth but other than that he can be easily mitigated (weather/damage cards) or overpowered with regular buffs as they are stronger than base str buffs. Actually I have recently played some games against Morkvarg decks and I haven't seen them having more than 100 str on the board any time, while many other decks are routinely able to get even more and not just in single round. Most Morkvarg decks (at least the ones I have faced) rely on combo with Kambi and strong gold units such as Hjalmar or Lugos but if you put them under pressure during 1st and 2nd round they will usually end up with card disadvatage which allows to easily stall until Kambi goes off.

TL;DR Morkvarg is fine.

 

[Ugralitan]

This is getting to be quite boring actually. As soon as some strategy becomes popular, milion nerfthreads appear. Usually I tend to agree with most of them (Cow Tosser seems ridiculous to me), but this is certainly not that case.
I have been playing deck focused on buffing Morkvarg (along with Kambi/Hjalmar) since december and my peak rating with it was around 3400 (I do not play it anymore because I prefer somewhat interresting and unusual decks instead of the ones which can be seen every other match but that's another matter). Morkvarg himself is not a big deal IMHO, his strength lies in being practically unremovable, so he can be a major pain for Radovids hoping for double Villentretenmerth but other than that he can be easily mitigated (weather/damage cards) or overpowered with regular buffs as they are stronger than base str buffs. Actually I have recently played some games against Morkvarg decks and I haven't seen them having more than 100 str on the board any time, while many other decks are routinely able to get even more and not just in single round. Most Morkvarg decks (at least the ones I have faced) rely on combo with Kambi and strong gold units such as Hjalmar or Lugos but if you put them under pressure during 1st and 2nd round they will usually end up with card disadvatage which allows to easily stall until Kambi goes off.

TL;DR Morkvarg is fine.

The calculations regarding Morkvarg speaks otherwise. By using him you can get far more value then a regular silver card with minimal effort. That is the pretty definition of imbalanced. And popularity occurs because such cards provide great value with minimal sweat. On top of that popularity allows more chances for a card to be tested.

Besides, the issue regarding Morkvarg-focused decks is not their ability to put 100+ strength in one round but their "unstoppable value persistence" between rounds. Other factions take risk and tactical initiative to put forward resilient units. Furthermore other factions have to keep their resilient units alive. For Morkvarg...just keep it well-fed with base strength and let it roll. You do not even have to focus your attention on Morkvarg too much. He will do his thing for the rest of three rounds.

A card which is not easily destructible, loses only 1 strength on round change and can be played by discarding is...beyond legendary.

TL;DR Morkvarg is NOT fine.

 

[isnadtochiev]

This is getting to be quite boring actually. As soon as some strategy becomes popular, milion nerfthreads appear. Usually I tend to agree with most of them (Cow Tosser seems ridiculous to me), but this is certainly not that case.

Ive done a math on Morkvarg vs any other faction-sepcific silver legendary in game. Well, thats in case you actually mean to debate the balance issue, its a few replies above. You know, so we can pretend that we operate in numbers, and not naked beliefs.

Morkvarg decks (at least the ones I have faced) rely on combo with Kambi and strong gold units such as Hjalmar or Lugos but if you put them under pressure during 1st and 2nd round they will usually end up with card disadvatage which allows to easily stall until Kambi goes off.
TL;DR Morkvarg is fine.

Well, sure, there are players who just play fun decks, nothing wrong with that. There are also players who dont know what they are doing. The fact that Hjalmar, Lugos and Kambi are all trash tier doesnt make any difference to balancing Morkvarg. Neither it matter for high rank decks employing him, simply because those cards arent in them.

 

[Dejma93]

You see this kind of "calculations" is quite misleading, as they ignore lots of important factors. You simply state that Morkvarg has value of 18 and that's it. There is quite a handful of cards, even bronze, which can provide >considerably< more value under right circumstances. I rather rely on my own experience which clearly says me that he's not that OP, I have been carefully counting games against Morkvarg decks and it is 4-0 in my favor so far, and I do remember quite well that I have been losing fair share of matches when I used to play with him a while ago...

 

[UnknownEternity]

You should be very careful when including the faction ability in your calculations (because other factions have abilities too).

Anyway, "Mahakam Defender" (bronze) / "Yarpen Zigrin" (silver) combined with "Mahakam Guard" creates far more value than "Morkvarg" combined with "Clan Tordarroch Shieldsmith". Buffs to base strength are harder to remove, but far lower than normal buffs - that's the whole point. "Morkvarg" does not die directly (if he has strength left) but he loses all non-base buffs and comes back weaker.

Edit - a short blank calculation:
"Yarpen Zigrin" gives a value of 14 (7+7) and "Morkvarg" a value of 15 (7+5+3) when played in the first round.
"Yarpen Zigrin" gives a value of 14 (7+7) and "Morkvarg" a value of 12 (7+5) when played in the second round.
"Yarpen Zigrin" gives a value of 7 (7) and "Morkvarg" a value of 7 (7) when played in the last round.
If you want to include faction abilities, you can raise the value "Morkvarg" accordingly but then set it to 1, because his owner could not play "Clear Sky" against the weather card of the Scoia'tael opponent.

 

[Guest 3973540]

Morkvarg as he is played now (in a Bran-Queensguard setting, sometimes + Olgierd) is not OP just by virtue of it being a powerful, but very predictable combo. And all the setup often costs the Bran side card advantage. Usually a dumb 3rd round Aeromancy sends all of them packing. Most of my decks have Aeromancy so I love to see Bran.

Now I don't have Morkvarg but if I had him I would try to build a deck with him but without QG.

 

[Ugralitan]

You see this kind of "calculations" is quite misleading, as they ignore lots of important factors. You simply state that Morkvarg has value of 18 and that's it. There is quite a handful of cards, even bronze, which can provide >considerably< more value under right circumstances. I rather rely on my own experience which clearly says me that he's not that OP, I have been carefully counting games against Morkvarg decks and it is 4-0 in my favor so far, and I do remember quite well that I have been losing fair share of matches when I used to play with him a while ago...

While providing such calculations, we also state the reliability of the value provided by the card. This is not about your experience or a simple number throwing nerf attempt. You should consider the whole utility package that one card has.

Morkvarg provides:

- Guaranteed Persistence
- Ability to be played by Discard
- Good base strength
- Good Scorch-protector when buffed

This is NOT a case of "cards which provide considerably more value under right circumstances". For example; you could get 18(10 of it as damage) value from Serrit IF you play it when there are 10 cards revealed. What if you pulled Serrit on the last round when there are 1 or none revealed cards are left? You will get 8-9 value out of the card. That is a conditional case. But Morkvarg left not buffed will give 7-6-5 throughout rounds totaling to 18 without any base buff. Why I specifically added faction base bonus to calculation? Because it is a faction specific card which can be played by that faction only.

Now Yarpen Zigrin is said to give "7+7" value. The difference from Morkvarg is that the second 7 value can be prevented. What Morkvarg provides here is reliability on highest form.

When we look at the "whole picture" we will easily see that Morkvarg currently surpasses the expected value from a silver card.

 

[isnadtochiev]

You see this kind of "calculations" is quite misleading, as they ignore lots of important factors. You simply state that Morkvarg has value of 18 and that's it. There is quite a handful of cards, even bronze, which can provide >considerably< more value under right circumstances. I rather rely on my own experience which clearly says me that he's not that OP, I have been carefully counting games against Morkvarg decks and it is 4-0 in my favor so far, and I do remember quite well that I have been losing fair share of matches when I used to play with him a while ago...

Ah, factors, how could i forget) Any card is only good if you can draw it. Well, you can just discard morkvarg to get him into play, so that factor is gone. Another one is that silver cards require a specific state of the board or specific hand, or both, to get their value. Well, a unbuffed, discarded (not by bran) morkvarg gives you 12 power over 3 rounds, wich is decent. So that one is out too. Factor of your opponent having removal, thus preventing you getting value of your silver? Morkvarg doesnt care. Moreover, he serves as scroch-like efffects protection and can soak up random damage instances from Warships/Mangonels and the like. I could go on, but i guess you get the idea by now? Thats precisely the trouble with Mork, hes not conditional. There is simply no way you dont get value out of him. Even the absolute worst-case scenario, where you discard him and he gets instantly banished by Letho - its 6 gold power and - 1 gold for opponent.
Yes, there are plenty of cards that can get much more value. Ive seen Draug wipe the board of over 40 power, scorches that hit like a truck, Succubus can hit an overbuffed unit and get insane value. But its all conditional, including any of those cards in your deck is a risk, playing any one of them you must first consider removals, your hand, opponnent hand. With Morkvarg - you dont. On bronze i guess you meant weather. It the whole other topic (this one http://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...s-aa/7801910-suggestion-thread-weather-rework) Its a flawed mechanic at its basis.

You should be very careful when including the faction ability in your calculations (because other factions have abilities too).
Anyway, "Mahakam Defender" (bronze) / "Yarpen Zigrin" (silver) combined with "Mahakam Guard" creates far more value than "Morkvarg" combined with "Clan Tordarroch Shieldsmith". Buffs to base strength are harder to remove, but far lower than normal buffs - that's the whole point. "Morkvarg" does not die directly (if he has strength left) but he loses all non-base buffs and comes back weaker.

Under leader ability i ment Eredin, hes also got wild hunt tag, therefore to make a maximum possible calculation i had to include him. Thought it was obvious.
Yarpen Zigrin+ Guard is 12+4+12 = 26 over 2 rounds. (yarpen only have 1 instance of resiliance). Defender + guard is 13+9+9. Morkvarg + shieldsmith is 6+9+8+7 = 30 over 3 rounds. Thought math was easy. Defender+Guard indeed give you 31 over 3 rounds. Wich looks ok, as long as you dont consider the fact that Morkvarg dont care for dimeritium, cant be removed and actually serves as removal protection. Yeah, by the way there is no "green" power buffs in high tier skellige decks.
Just to make it clear, i do firmly believe that cards shall be designed around actual, competetive decks. Moreover, since its CBT and there is still a chance of CD project actually paying attention to community feedback, id politely ask you gentlemen to actually try to carefully consider before stating something.