Getting default Leaders from packs

[zantclick]

Getting default Leaders from packs

I'm sure somebody's written about this before, but I wanted to add my voice to the subject. It's kind of a small thing, but I find it incredibly frustrating when I'm met with this during a pack opening. Gwent automatically gives you one leader for each faction, and there's no un-unlocking it once it's there. I suppose you could mill it, but I haven't tried. Regardless, I think it's ridiculous that you can open vanilla starter leaders from packs. I've seen plenty of folks with animated versions of starter leaders and I think that's awesome and I'd be ecstatic to get one of them... but to get a default leader you literally *can't* not have is irritating. (sorry for all the double-negatives)

Obviously it's not a common case, but in the attached image I'm sure anyone can guess that I really wish that card were anything but Crach, even if another duplicate so at least I wouldn't feel cheated.

Hopefully the devs note this sorta thing, it's just beta right now so it's not hurting anybody, but it'd likely be a huge thing come live.

 

[Knightlon]

In case you milled, there must still be a chance to get it back. The keg rules are the same whatever cards you have. The benefit is that you get 2 other cards to choose from anyway. It's not that likely that those will be basic leaders as well. I guess you own most of the epic cards and therefore if it was another card, it could still be one that you already own anyway.

 

[zantclick]

Well that's the thing, I understand you can mill it, but in a case where it's not a bunch of bulk cards you may or may not use that are handed to you and rather is one set of specific cards (e.g. Leaders) I don't think it's unreasonable to state that if you choose to mill it, the only way to get it back is to craft it. There's no way to permanently get rid of any card in this game regardless of whether you get it in a pack or not. I think it's a smaller majority of players that will choose to mill their starter leaders than those who will receive them as duplicates in kegs, and as such I don't really see why it goes against anything to take them out of kegs.

And yes, to the last statement you made, like I said, I would have rather gotten a choice of another epic I already had than one that I would have been guaranteed to have, if that makes sense. One option feels like simple bad luck, the other feels like bad game design.

I dunno, it may seem like a small thing because epics have a far higher chance of showing up as your choice of three than the initial 4 you flip over, but they can show up there too, and even assuming it shows up at all, that's a chance you could have had at something else, that's all.

EDIT: I'm not sure if people have brought this up before (I'm sure they have) but I don't think it's unreasonable to adopt a similar format to Hearthstone's new player experience which is that you get basic core cards when you start (such as leaders and the original cards for your decks) that can't be milled/crafted. They're just there for everyone that plays the game, and then the rest of the collecting begins past that starting point. Could be argued that it's a tactical move to mill starter leaders that are bad in the current meta in favor of better cards, but I think it kind of flies in the face of CCGs themselves.

 

[Knightlon]

But Gwent isn't Hearthstone. Why should it adopt every other mechanic?

 

[zantclick]

Most things Hearthstone-related are pretty busted and poorly designed as a whole, but I was merely referencing the base set of cards people have access to. It is my opinion, not necessarily how it should be, that starter cards shouldn't be millable and by extension, craftable, although I don't see any problem with throwing animated versions into the mix, for rarity's sake. I just think it doesn't make much sense for the game to have a system in place that allows you to mill and craft through your starter cards until you're left with no scraps and no cards (by milling and recrafting, losing scrap). Especially if you take into account someone who might be confused with how the collection system works and winds up milling some crucial intro cards. That alone would cause someone making that mistake to not even attempt to continue playing knowing they screwed themselves.

Just me though.

 

[Knightlon]

Would have to be really dumb and arrogant to do that. Don't forget that you can't mill until level 3, so I can't really see how someone could "achieve" that. I like the way it is. If I mill-craft-mill-craft... it's only my stupidity when I end up with no cards left. It's nice that the cards don't have only the value of being played in the beginning, but also that you can use them for additional scraps if you don't really want to use them.

 

[Flintberg]

Since it's not possible to create and play a deck without a leader, it shouldn't be possible to mill basic leaders and they shouldn't appear in kegs (except for Premium versions).

 

[bt_sf]

No Title

 

[RickMelethron]

you get to choose between three epic cards; if you already have the other two epics that show up with the leader, you're not in a position to complain about getting starter leaders from packs...

 

[slow_cheeetah]

I'd say that starter decks cards (all of them) shouldn't be possible to mill them.
Of course with possibility to mill extra starter cards (when you have more then 3 of kind)
That'd cut the problem with people who mill all of their cards and then cry that they cannot play.

 

[RainChocolate]

Lols yeah it sucks, but its good scraps

 

[Kingoko]

lol that photo with 3 starter leaders

 

[DMaster2]

Ouch. I feel for you bro.

 

[UnknownEternity]

There are already suggestions out there: Remove leaders from kegs and make them available by gaining levels.
Another one would be that you get the leaders from the single player campaign and not form kegs (obviously not possible until the campaign is implemented).

In both cases you could still retain the possibility to mill and craft leaders (for people who really want that one leader early or something like that).

 

[Mivo]

I like that you can mill the starter deck cards, if you wish to do that. Always found it a bit counter-intuitive in some other cards games where you have some cards that you can't turn into crafting materials. Card games are all about decision making, and whether you mill your stuff is one of those decisions.

The chance for a default leader (it's just five cards) to show up, and you having the two other epic choices, is fairly small. Getting one as one of the four cards is also a tiny chance only.

 

[Knightlon]

That'd cut the problem with people who mill all of their cards and then cry that they cannot play.

Who? Who does that? I have never heard anyone. I can't believe anyone would be that stupid.

 

[zantclick]

Who? Who does that? I have never heard anyone. I can't believe anyone would be that stupid.

From my perspective, I can't imagine anyone doing that EVER, because agreed, you'd have to be a huge idiot. On the other hand, it's not wrong - the fact that you can be in a position at all that makes the game unplayable is just a hole in the overall game design. Again, no one with a brain would consciously be unaware of the consequences. On the other hand, I could literally snag a fresh beta key, get to level 3, mill all my cards and post it as a YouTube video as a goof. I mean sure, it's improbable, but when you're testing for bugs/issues in an unfinished game, you're going for *impossible* not *improbable*.

 

[Knightlon]

Add "reset collection" option?

 

[zantclick]

There you go, that's a solution. I'm not sure exactly how you're thinking about it logistically if you take into account cards you get from Kegs (since you can't just refund base scrap value), but it's a start.

I just mean that in a finished game you shouldn't be able to pass the edges of the metaphorical map. Kinda like if you try to swim off the Skellige Isles map in W3. It ends eventually

 

[Lexandre]

there is no reason to be frustrated about that because getting cards in gwent is really easy anyway

and if you start comparing gwent base cards to hearthstone base cards i think its important to note that literally nobody uses hearthstone base cards in proper decks while gwent base cards bear serious value at times