All Cards Suggestion

[Dreatlan]

All Cards Suggestion

Hello everyone. I wanted to propose an idea as a way to not only support Gwent but, get more out of it. To understand the suggestion.. Let me first explain "theory crafting".

Some of you may know what it is but, for those who don't know.. It's when you try to come up with something brand new.. Something that tests the limits of a mechanic, or is so different most people wouldn't of thought of doing it that way. That is what is most fun for me. I prefer that over anything else when it comes to a game like this.

It is true that this game gives you more than Hearthstone but, it's still not alot. Theory Crafting requires ALOT to be able to fully explore.

With that.. I am suggesting to create an "all card package". It will be more expensive than buying individual kegs but, that would be reasonable considering what it does. It gives you all the cards in the game.

Gwent is still new so there will be alot of meta changes over the year. Who knows where Gwent will be next year. I was thinking that by that time, you could give a temporary sale of this package. Anyone who has purchased Kegs or Meteorite over the years, can have that put towards this package.

Example: If someone has put 60 dollars into Kegs, and 10 in Meteorite, the total cost of the package will be reduced by 70 dollars.

Some people have told me it's a crazy idea and you get plenty of scraps. Not true. There are some high ranked players who don't have scraps left from months of playing Gwent (from the patches/changes). Even though my idea was based on "theory crafting", it does help those players as well.

If people are worried about it taking away from playing the game.. Restrict it to Golds, Silvers and Leader cards. That way they still have to buy Bronzes.

Did I make sense? Hopefully I did. What do you all think?

 

[SkippyHole]

No. Most people would buy it instantly, which not only gives them a huge advantage over newer players, but would also mean they wouldn't stay in the game for half as long. People may think that the main fun is building decks, but if you have nothing to work towards (getting a keg, crafting a card, etc.) then most people would leave the game pretty quickly.

 

[Skryba86]

This is a collectible card game. How would it be a good idea to allow the players to simply cash in and purchase the entire collection?

That would be pay to win at its best (worst, actually xD). That type of concept should apply to non collectible card games, the ones where you get the whole package as soon as you purchase, and it should be the same for everyone involved, not just those that cash in more money, IMO.

 

[Iuliandrei]

No. Most people would buy it instantly, which not only gives them a huge advantage over newer players, but would also mean they wouldn't stay in the game for half as long. People may think that the main fun is building decks, but if you have nothing to work towards (getting a keg, crafting a card, etc.) then most people would leave the game pretty quickly.

This is a collectible card game. How would it be a good idea to allow the players to simply cash in and purchase the entire collection?

That would be pay to win at its best (worst, actually xD). That type of concept should apply to non collectible card games, the ones where you get the whole package as soon as you purchase, and it should be the same for everyone involved, not just those that cash in more money, IMO.

What are you people talking about? You do realize that if you want to buy the entire collection now you can right? You just buy kegs, mill duplicates and craft your entire collection, there is nothing stopping you from acquiring all the cards in day 1.

The OP just wants to make it more streamlined but in essence nothing would change, if you think this suggestion makes the game P2W but buying kegs doesn't then you have a problem.

Also i love this idea that having MORE CARDS aka content to build decks with leading to LESS time playing. Logic!

 

[R3V3RS3PARADOX]

Bad idea if you have all the cards then opening up kegs as rewards later would be totally pointless.

 

[Skryba86]

What are you people talking about? You do realize that if you want to buy the entire collection now you can right? You just buy kegs, mill duplicates and craft your entire collection, there is nothing stopping you from acquiring all the cards in day 1.

The OP just wants to make it more streamlined but in essence nothing would change, if you think this suggestion makes the game P2W but buying kegs doesn't then you have a problem.

Also i love this idea that having MORE CARDS aka content to build decks with leading to LESS time playing. Logic!

You do realize that's how collectible card games work, right? You open packs, you trade/sell and buy/craft the cards you want. If you want to, you can indeed spend a buttload of cash on kegs, scrap the duplicates and craft the entire collection. That's very very different from giving the player an option to simply purchase all cards, not only because of how radically different the price would have to be in order for it not to look simply outrageous, but also because of the concept behind it. Logic!

Oh, and another bit of logic for you: having the player achieve personal goals in order to get a reward, a hard-earned one, will keep him coming back a lot more than simply giving him everything right off the bat. The fact that he wants to get the scraps he needs to craft a certain card he's yet to get will be a lot more effective as an incentive than simply "play more so you can play more". That's the whole idea being daily rewards, and if you can't see that, then I'd suggest maybe logic isn't your strong suit.

 

[Iuliandrei]

You do realize that's how collectible card games work, right? You open packs, you trade/sell and buy/craft the cards you want. If you want to, you can indeed spend a buttload of cash on kegs, scrap the duplicates and craft the entire collection. That's very very different from giving the player an option to simply purchase all cards, not only because of how radically different the price would have to be in order for it not to look simply outrageous, but also because of the concept behind it. Logic!

It's mind boggling that you're still trying to defend your obvious lack of reasoning.
Do you actually thing that if you use the word "very" twice or "radically different" will actually make it so? The only difference is aesthetics here, you could either buy the whole collection for 500-600 euros, or you can buy ~400 kegs for 1.5 euro each and get the whole collection. But in your mind the first option is the worst kind of pay to win while the second is perfectly reasonable and makes for a healthy game.

 

[Skryba86]

Great, m8, just go ahead and keep believing that no one else knows what they're doing, and that there's no logic behind collectible card games. Godspeed!

 

[Treamayne]

Theorycrafting in paper CCGs rarely has anything to do with owning full collections. For example, in Magic; a theorycrafter would take some basic lands andf turn them into proxies. Build the deck on proxies, play, test, change and tweak as needed. Once they know the final deck design they plan to use, they will then acquire the cards they need.

If CDPR wants to help this activity (and I think they should) what they could do is:

1- First, allow the deck builder to utilize cards you don't own. Those cards would have a flag in your collection to show it is in a deck, but unowned (so you know you need to get one from a keg or through crafting). Decks using cards you do not own would flag as illegal and be unplayable in casual and ranked.

2- Allow incomplete or illegal decks to be played in the practice room (against Turing Machine). Preferably with a tweak to the Turing Machine to allow players to choose what leader to practice against and set its "level" (difficulty, and deck quality)

This would allow a theorycrafter to work on a deck build, test it out, make changes and continue testing until they know what deck they want to work toward making. Then they can start crafting the cards they need that haven't dropped from a keg. This would also allow any player to test cards they are thinking about crafting (or new cards as they are added bi-monthly) so they can decide what to craft.

 

[Dreatlan]

This blew up while I was gone. Let me respond from the top down.

No people still have things to work for.. MMR, a new build or something. It wouldn't give them an advantage over new players. As it stands there is high ranked players now making new accounts for each faction just to have the cards. I understand the reason for it but, smurfs always harm a game. So either you force new players to leave because of a smurf, or because someone bought an all card package. It's better to give them the cards to keep them on one account.

You have the CHANCE to buy the entire collection. Not you CAN. After about 200 Kegs if RNG is nice to you then maybe. I purchased 40 Kegs myself to support the game (and because I wanted to play). Out of the 40 I only got 3 golds. They wern't for the same faction too.

Like I said if you are that concerned then restrict to Leaders and Bronzes, or Leaders and Silver, or something. All I am suggesting is an alternative way to support the game, while making people like me happy. I enjoy theory crafting.

It wouldn't be less time played. If anything you will play alot to get MMR or find new deck combinations.

You know multiple games have done something similar. Look at say Smite. They have a package that allows you to unlock all the Gods and future Gods. People still play. Argument invalid already.

And finally to Treamayne.. I wasn't aware Magic did that.

I can sort of agree to this except for the Turing Machine part (if I understood that correctly). Am I understanding you correctly that you are saying an AI player to fight? If so.. The true test of a theory craft is by playing against other players of similar MMR. In my case.. The only way I know a deck can work is if I play against players who are in 3K-4K range.

 

[4RM3D]

Skryba86 Iuliandrei

Many roads lead to Rome, as the saying goes. The ability to buy a whole collection would be analogous to instantly teleporting to Rome, while keep buying kegs would be a kin to taking the plane. In both cases you do not care about the journey, only about the destination. However, some people do actually care about the journey and enjoying the scenery. F2P players would walk to Rome. It takes a while, but they would eventually get there. Casual buyers, have a bike to speed thing up.

Eh, I actually wanted to make a point but now I am lost in the naturescape and my mind has wandered off to Rome. Let me say one thing then: perception matters, A LOT. Even if it's the same thing underneath, the distinction is important. One simple example: the forfeit button. This is the devs way of saying: it's okay to instantly forfeit to save time, instead of pressing the pass button (or quitting the game). If you put the whole collection up for sale, then the devs say it's okay to go P2W and it will set a whole different precedence for the game. Even though just buying kegs is technically already P2W.

You know multiple games have done something similar. Look at say Smite. They have a package that allows you to unlock all the Gods and future Gods. People still play. Argument invalid already.

Because Bob jumped off the bridge and survived doesn't automatically mean Peter will survive too if he jumps off the bridge. What works for Smite doesn't automatically work for Gwent also.

 

[Dreatlan]

Skryba86 Iuliandrei

Many roads lead to Rome, as the saying goes. The ability to buy a whole collection would be analogous to instantly teleporting to Rome, while keep buying kegs would be a kin to taking the plane. In both cases you do not care about the journey, only about the destination. However, some people do actually care about the journey and enjoying the scenery. F2P players would walk to Rome. It takes a while, but they would eventually get there. Casual buyers, have a bike to speed thing up.

Eh, I actually wanted to make a point but now I am lost in the naturescape and my mind has wandered off to Rome. Let me say one thing then: perception matters, A LOT. Even if it's the same thing underneath, the distinction is important. One simple example: the forfeit button. This is the devs way of saying: it's okay to instantly forfeit to save time, instead of pressing the pass button (or quitting the game). If you put the whole collection up for sale, then the devs say it's okay to go P2W and it will set a whole different precedence for the game. Even though just buying kegs is technically already P2W.



Because Bob jumped off the bridge and survived doesn't automatically mean Peter will survive too if he jumps off the bridge. What works for Smite doesn't automatically work for Gwent also.

Yes I have been told this as well. My response will always be the same. I get that Gwent is a completely different game than all of the others who have done it. However.. It does go to show that if enough games succeeded at doing it, then there is a chance it could work for another game. Why not at least try?

Then another thing to look at is extreme examples like Path of Exile. People there were more than happy to pay alot of money. Some put as much as 5,000 dollars in that game. They were given insane rewards for it of course. I am not saying Gwent should do the same. I think anything 500 or over is silly on a game but, that is just me. I get others are different. Point is.. There is always the chance someone wants to be a mega supporter. In Path of Exile's case they were able to give something that was enticing enough to go that far.

Sure opening Kegs can be an addiction, or for fun but, it's not a guaranteed reward down the road. With this you are guaranteeing something major for being a mega supporter. Did I make sense?

 

[Treamayne]

Dreatlan

And finally to Treamayne.. I wasn't aware Magic did that. I can sort of agree to this except for the Turing Machine part (if I understood that correctly). Am I understanding you correctly that you are saying an AI player to fight? If so.. The true test of a theory craft is by playing against other players of similar MMR. In my case.. The only way I know a deck can work is if I play against players who are in 3K-4K range.

From the WOTC Policy here:

A playtest card is most commonly a basic land with the name of a different card written on it with a marker. Playtest cards aren't trying to be reproductions of real Magic cards; they don't have official art and they wouldn't pass even as the real thing under the most cursory glance. Fans use playtest cards to test out new deck ideas before building out a deck for real and bringing it to a sanctioned tournament. And that's perfectly fine with us. Wizards of the Coast has no desire to police playtest cards made for personal, non-commercial use, even if that usage takes place in a store... Our stance on counterfeits is also clear: Wizards remains committed to vigorously protecting the Magic community from counterfeiters.

Here's the thing, you can't proxy on a digital game. Allowing purchased collections, I believe, would harm the community more than it helps the few who have a legitimate reason to want such a product. Yes, the Turing Machine is an AI opponent, but it is good enough to let you test if a card interaction works the way you think it should, or if a build is consistent enough to be viable. CDPR could also possibly make "playtest" builds available in challenge matches (between friends, but still outside the casual and ranked match rooms).

This allows theorycrafters and regular players to test things before investing scrap in a card that might not be what they want without diluting the collection experience or skewing the rank/casual MMR. And, maybe if it was popular enough, they could eventually add an entire room feature that allowed matched play with playtest builds (if such a room had no effect on MMR or Rank).

 

[junkyard5dawg]

Transmute doesn't seem to do anything more than just add animation to the cards. It also duplicates cards in the collection. I do not understand this at all. I think it makes more sense to just have all cards automatically transmuted and just up the cost. If the only benefit to transmuting a card is animation, there is no impetus for me to actually do this unless it boosts a cards' ability in some way. I suggest upping the cost on crafting which would include transmute and have transmute actually boost the ability of the card. This would do 2 things:
1. Consolidate the collection, as I don't care if a card is animated or not
2. Give me a reason to perform a transmutation
That said if transmute was "cooler" (e.g. made the characters appear to physically pop up from the board isometrically in 3D) then it would also be worth doing. If I had the option though I would always opt for a boost in ability over flare especially in a card game.

 

[Dreatlan]

Treamayne.. The MMR is already skewed. As I said smurfing is common. You have 3K+ MMR players making new accounts. Why? Because that is how you get multiple faction decks quicker. All I am suggesting is give them an incentive to stay on one account, while making theory crafters happy. I would accept your idea in the game as well though.

This is a lil off topic Junkyard but, I will endulge it. Or you could do an achievement with it.. If you win under x condition you get a free premium. I have no idea if that would work but, it's the only thing I can come up with at this time. I am sure if given more time I can come up with something better.