Can someone explain the point of Spies that draw cards?

[LorinaBobit]

Can someone explain the point of Spies that draw cards?

Hey all, I've been having trouble understanding why certain spies are considered good, and I was hoping someone could enlighten me.

Lets take Avallac'h for starters. Disloyal, 8 strength, draw 2 cards and your opponent draws 1. I get that the 8 strength against you can be mitigated by good play, so let's pretend he just has 0 strength.

If I have a card that lets me draw 1 more card than my opponent, isn't that useless? If I didn't have avallac'h in my deck, I would have drawn an additional card anyways.

I know people say it gives card advantage, but I don't see how. For example, if I have 7 cards and my opponent has 7 cards, let's say I play avallac'h. That's one card, so I'm down to 6 cards. I draw 2, and my opponent draws 1, so we both have 8 cards. That's still an equal hand size, and not card advantage.
.
He's used in like, 25% of Monster Decks, so I think it must be me missing something.

 

[4RM3D]

Card Advantage is also about having (and playing) the last card. When you put down a spy, like Avallac'h, you've played one card and then get another card, which you can play again (next turn after the opponent played a card), giving you one card advantage. Besides, if you won the first round, you can (almost) freely drop spies in the second round because the opponent cannot pass, giving you free cards, while the opponent needs to keep playing. And finally, it works as a deck thinning mechanism, wherein you try to play all your cards to get all the good cards into the game.

 

[LorinaBobit]

Alright, thank you, I think that makes sense. So it's the act of playing a card to essentially stall a turn that's important?

 

[4RM3D]

So it's the act of playing a card to essentially stall a turn that's important?

In some cases, very much so. Imagine situations like:
- Playing weather as the last card and eliminating a whole row.
- Playing D-Bomb to remove all buffs.
- Playing Cahir to get a free card.

The opponent can no longer counter it. Basically, you have forced your opponent to use all his cards and giving you the last say, which can be devastating.

 

[LorinaBobit]

Excellent, thank you. I've definitely been in some of those situations, and lost simply because I was out of cards first. I'm 5 scraps away from crafting him now, going to be happy to use him in my monsters deck.

 

[4RM3D]

Excellent, thank you. I've definitely been in some of those situations, and lost simply because I was out of cards first. I'm 5 scraps away from crafting him now, going to be happy to use him in my monsters deck.

I should warn you he isn't all rainbows and sunshine. There are situations where he could backfire. Personally, I would go for Kayran first (if you're running Monster Consume), then Caretaker.

 

[thalnor]

To some degree, you don't even know if it did backfire like Albrich at least tells you if you gave the opponent one of his golds (like, say, Ciri Dash, or Villentretenmerth).

 

[Lexandre]

Avallac'h is probably the best spy currently or at least the one with the least power so he's probably good to start learning spy usage from

just make sure you've drawn all your foglets and wild hunt riders if you have them before you play Avallac'h

 

[ImperatorSK]

It is the ablility to thin your Deck and to play the last card that makes Avallac'h so powerfull, 8 Str is about the str of a Card draw so a pretty good value for that card, since monster cant Swap them back and the Gold Stat prevent that the Str. can be easy removed.

its the same with Ciri, Ocvist and alot of other Cards, at first they dont seem so strong but they give you Movement advantage. Especially with Monster Weather or Dagon the last card can swap a board completely.

 

[Bodach]

Great thread here. Thanks for making it. I didn't follow the concept as well either, besides playing in round 2 if round 1 is won. I see the subtle advantage though in other cases.

 

[salle132]

Yaevinn is worth for what?

I think this is by for the worst possible card in Gwent.It's useless,i can't think any way of using him.I know that there are sort of combos that you can use him with traps and so...but its a silver card...we got small amount of silver cards that we can use and this card in my opinion just wasting your space.

Can anyone explain me how to use Yaevinn and help more me then my enemy?

 

[4RM3D]

salle132

thread moved & merged

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

I think this is by for the worst possible card in Gwent.It's useless,i can't think any way of using him.I know that there are sort of combos that you can use him with traps and so...but its a silver card...we got small amount of silver cards that we can use and this card in my opinion just wasting your space.

Can anyone explain me how to use Yaevinn and help more me then my enemy?

Yeavinn works well with Scorch or Schirrù, assuming you plan to win the round.
(I wouldn't waste a Geralt: Igni)

If not, like most other spies, just play him when the round is already the opponent's and you basically get one card in exchange for him. The best usage is to somehow Scorch him though, especially because once you played Yeavinn the opponents often pass to avoid wasting card.

I use him in my ST Ambush deck where most my cards have low strength, so that I can scorch with impunity.

 

[KasumiGoto]

Worst card? Yaevinn is in almost every ST deck (like every spy).

 

[panerola]

I think this is by for the worst possible card in Gwent.It's useless,i can't think any way of using him.I know that there are sort of combos that you can use him with traps and so...but its a silver card...we got small amount of silver cards that we can use and this card in my opinion just wasting your space.
Can anyone explain me how to use Yaevinn and help more me then my enemy?

You can take a look in this thread and get some ideas: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...coia-tael-aa/7948530-how-should-i-use-yaewiin

 

[zantclick]

Card draw spies will always be handy. The ability to play a card during a turn and not be down 1 card in hand is so incredibly valuable, not to mention the fact that most of these cards (I suppose with the exclusion of Yaevinn) have the added utility of granting you some control over what you draw. With Yaevinn it's different because Scoia'tael inherently have a lot of control over their toolkit during any round because of Brouver Hoog and Francesca's abilities.

These cards are some of the most powerful in the game for a few reasons:
1.) Card advantage is oftentimes the deciding factor in games. The person with it essentially gets the last word; if you play your final card after your opponent, they cannot counter what you proceed to do. If your opponent has advantage over you, they have control over how the game ends. Simplest example is - you have a few powerful units and a First Light in your hand, but your opponent has card advantage. On the last card, you have to use First Light to Rally because there's no weather on the board. Your opponent's last card is weather that wipes out your powerful units, but you couldn't use your First Light to counteract this because they had +1 card over you.

2.) You can manipulate your opponent's actions. Oftentimes your opponent will see you overextend on their side with a card draw spy and pass early (on one of the first two rounds). If they don't, you can choose to pass yourself, leaving you 2 cards ahead of your opponent, or they can pass and attempt to equalize the card difference between the two of you. In a situation where you can take back the board and win a round using a single card (like Scorch, Weather, e.t.c.), then you have an opportunity to bluff your opponent into passing while keeping your cards in-hand equal to your opponent's.

3.) Lastly, it inherently gives you more say over what cards you have in your hand each turn - you can argue that without a card like Yaevinn in your hand, you'd have another card instead, but what if that's not a card you want at that given time? You'd have to play something to less effect simply to pass a turn, whereas with spies like him you can play out a turn, replace him with another card, and not have wasted other valuable resources to stay above water.

Hopefully that makes sense, disloyal units in general can be a bit confusing to newer players, no doubt about that.