The Last Wish vs Thaler

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The Last Wish vs Thaler

"Draw 2 cards- Keep 1 and shuffle the other back". That's the description of both cards. Yet The Last Wish doesn't give your opponent 11 points while Thaler does.
Yes Thaler card does say that you draw 2 cards INCLUDING GOLDS but the Last Wish doesn't specify the quality of card.
Basically Thaler is the most useless card for now.
 
With The Last Wish you have to play the card instantly. With Thaler you keep it in hand, gaining card advantage... which is pretty much standard spy mechanic.
 
Still 11 points seem too much if other card can do it for free. Thaler prupose is basically allowing you to "skip" a turn costing you 11 points, which seems too much.
 
Rakyand;n8660920 said:
Still 11 points seem too much if other card can do it for free.
These are completeley different cards. The Last Wish doesn't give you CA, and Thaler can give you a gold card. Spies like these are high risk-high reward cards, and players usually use them in decks build around huge point swings / aimed to win first round and stall the second one.
 
Yes, completely different concepts. If you play Thaler right, he can be a lot more effective, but it comes with a risk :).
I think every deck should have at least one card that is good for card advantage - Thaler is one way to gain that.
 
Rakyand;n8660920 said:
Still 11 points seem too much if other card can do it for free. Thaler prupose is basically allowing you to "skip" a turn costing you 11 points, which seems too much.

The 11 points are a result of repeated nerfs to card drawing spy cards in the closed beta. Turns out that in Gwent, card advantage, and thus the ability to play the final card of the match, is worth a hell of a lot of points. Maybe less so these days as many of the extreme swing cards were nerfed as well, like Commanders horn now giving a flat boost instead of doubling and having a limited number of uinits it can affect, but still, do not underestimate just how valuable card advantage is.
 
There are cards like Dudu or Begger which have some synergy with Thaler.
Or Ciri it and just gave up round to win the war.
 
Last Wish makes you play a card, whereas spies replace themselves. Thaler could have an interesting synergy in a Machine deck, but you can't reliably get rid of it, sadly.
 
I still think Thaler is too high a risk card, especially if you compare it to, say a Nilfgaard spy such as Joachim de Wett. I'm not sure the option to keep the card and the 'chance' of picking a Gold mitigates the cost of 11 damage. Especially if you load your deck with 35-40 cards.
 
Gadzooky;n8953950 said:
I still think Thaler is too high a risk card, especially if you compare it to, say a Nilfgaard spy such as Joachim de Wett. I'm not sure the option to keep the card and the 'chance' of picking a Gold mitigates the cost of 11 damage. Especially if you load your deck with 35-40 cards.

You can't compare it to J. de Wett, because the idea behind it is very very different.
Thaler is good for card advantage and stalling tactics.

With de Wett you can bring a lot of points on the board.
 
Oh I get that - I guess I was just trying to say that I can't see the risk/reward balance on Thaler attractive enough to make me want to pick that card!
 
What the hell am I reading here? Thaler "not a good card"? Seriously, people - spies are VERY powerful.

Just like Ciri if you can fit her in your deck - the proper use for Thaler is when you don't care about the points your opponent is getting - for example because you won round 1, and your opponent HAS TO keep playing cards in round 2 until you pass - in that way Thaler, who amounts to "do nothing, do not spend a card, keep your opponent playing cards" gives you pure card advantage - that is a HUGE deal in Gwent.
 
Gadzooky;n8954170 said:
Oh I get that - I guess I was just trying to say that I can't see the risk/reward balance on Thaler attractive enough to make me want to pick that card!

Well, if you really got that, you would not have compared apples to oranges :).

A better comparison would have been Frightener, Udalryk, Yaevinn or Cantarella. Those spies share the same core idea.
And sure, not every deck needs a card like that, but that doesn't change how powerful those cards can be.
 
When you play a Thaler you should have a point advantage in mind. For example, if I am trying to get a Reaver Hunter to complete a Trio, giving the opponent 11 points and giving myself a 9 point Hunter + Trio Ability is well worth it.
 
Spies card are powerful when use right but some other times it ends up being a bad card.

Very simple use is that if you win round one, you use it in round two to gain card advantage since opponent can't really pass.
Another use is if you are trying to bait into activating light cavalry. (-20 to activate)
Sometimes even in third round, you don't have the final play. It might be worth the risk so you can play your finisher last. eg: Witcher finish, you want to play last in case opponent has Igni, Succubus, Kambi.

It's standard spy mechanic, I think every faction has one. NG has Carantella(-10) , SC has Yaevinn(-12) etc.
 
KingPegasus;n9048390 said:
Until you draw into them and have 5 other cards you want to mull

This

But, hey, spies are high risk/high reward. Thaler is a good card in certain decks, bad in others, same with all spies. CA is too good to dismiss spies as bad cards. LW makes you play the card you draw, thus no CA, and yet this can be useful in certain situations. This is the challenge to deck building, a challenge many can't or won't accept and simply use net decks.
 
Birkewedd;n8650780 said:
"Draw 2 cards- Keep 1 and shuffle the other back". That's the description of both cards. Yet The Last Wish doesn't give your opponent 11 points while Thaler does.
Yes Thaler card does say that you draw 2 cards INCLUDING GOLDS but the Last Wish doesn't specify the quality of card.
Basically Thaler is the most useless card for now.

You use Thaler if you plan to lose the round so you have a card advantage. When I play as NR i would want to 100% win the first round since the deciding factor of my win rate as NR is whether i win round 1 or not. So yeah win round 1 then play Thaler and play any card that you can throw away at the enemy at no risk.

Or you know just use it to activate the -20 power condition of cavalrymen. In the best case scenario you can get up to 33 power boost from the cavalry when you are losing or 22 power boost considering Thaler which is pretty disgusting. well they can scorch it but technically they would only scorch 0 card since you draw an additional card as Thaler and the cavalrymen cost nothing to activate.
 
Thaler is better because it can pull gold cards and last wish cannot, thaler can be used to trigger light cavalry, set up an igni, and thaler is a "unit" so you can pull him out with cards like reinforcements.
 
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