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Skyrim and W3

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  • Skyrim and W3

    Gonna make it short.
    we got Skyrim like 6 Years ago ...
    Till this day its one of the most played games in Steam .

    While Skyrim got like 500k players , W3 barley gets 30k

    The reason that skyrim is still most played game till this day is because they have Modding tools to make the game better , add content , fix bugs and so on.

    W3 on the other hand - got nothing . bad modding tools (with awesome modding community which i appericiate alot) .

    just saying that if W3 wont get any modding tools soon it will be dead...no 1 will play it in a year or so .. just because they got no reason to replay the game .

    So please dear Devs, dont you want your amazing creation(W3) to survive long in the gaming indjustry ? , dont need patchs , dont need more expansions , NOTHING .
    just bring us the Modding tools we so much need to make this game from Epic to Legendary !


    Cheers!

  • #2
    Originally posted by nircc View Post
    While Skyrim got like 500k players , W3 barley gets 30k
    The difference is not that large actually, according to SteamSpy, the games were played by this many people over the last two weeks:

    Skyrim (original version from 2011): 692,917 (11,445,956 owners)
    Fallout 4: 579,907 (4,102,796)
    The Witcher 3: 377,525 (2,783,148)
    Skyrim Special Edition (2016 remaster): 365,368 (5,780,609 - many people got it as a free update)

    If you consider that TW3 is also sold and played on GOG, and that it is more of a story driven game than a "sandbox" like the Bethesda titles, it is doing quite well for an almost 2 years old single player game. The player count also increases whenever it is on sale, which happens relatively frequently.

    Edit: looking at the number of active players since the release date in 2015 here, it even seems to be higher now than a year ago.
    Last edited by sv3672; 22-02-17, 22:45. Reason: Added link to SteamDB

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    • #3
      skyrim has been out for 6 years
      the witcher has been out fo 2 years


      you are right about moding tools

      w3 modding tools are nothing comapred to skyrim's, yes, bu the devs won't release any new modding tools, so modders must create them if they want/can

      it's really bad, but there is not much we can do about it


      skyrim has hundresds of thousands of bugs, the witcher 3 1.31 version has 3 or 5 bugs



      Comment


      • #4
        I can't stand it when people compare these two games. Bethesda pushed out a game that was great for what it was created for. CDPR pushed out a game that was, and is, phenomenal for what it was created for.

        The engines are two completely different monsters. Skyrim, with it's FPS-based physics model, is old and tiresome. Wild Hunt was not created to be modded to hell like Skyrim is. It was created to be a stellar, single-player, story-driven, open-world game with far more complexities than Skyrim.

        As for expansions and patches being needed: yes, those are what the game needs. I wish they'd gather a team to completely polish the game and possibly create more content, even if it's quests that had been cut from the release version.

        To end, you cannot compare these games. It makes no sense.

        Originally posted by sv3672 View Post

        The difference is not that large actually, according to SteamSpy, the games were played by this many people over the last two weeks:

        Skyrim (original version from 2011): 692,917 (11,445,956 owners)
        Fallout 4: 579,907 (4,102,796)
        The Witcher 3: 377,525 (2,783,148)
        Skyrim Special Edition (2016 remaster): 365,368 (5,780,609 - many people got it as a free update)

        If you consider that TW3 is also sold and played on GOG, and that it is more of a story driven game than a "sandbox" like the Bethesda titles, it is doing quite well for an almost 2 years old single player game. The player count also increases whenever it is on sale, which happens relatively frequently.

        Edit: looking at the number of active players since the release date in 2015 here, it even seems to be higher now than a year ago.
        There are console players as well. Who knows how many people are playing Wild Hunt on PS4 or Xbox One.

        Comment


        • #5
          I compared both games because they are top RPG
          and also to make a point that modding tools for W3 would make it last longer just like Skyrim

          Comment


          • #6
            Both games can be compared based on similar features, such as the open world. Lets do some brainstorming here:

            - The witcher has an open world as do SkYRIM .. however for some reason the map of witcher is quite bigger than the skyrim's. However the scale of all things in SKYRIM looks enormous, mountains, reivers, ponds, paths, EVERYTHING. Whil in w3 large open world ... but with some many downscale mountain peaks, rivers, ponds ... everythin in w3 world seems tobe like shrank. I dunno for example I look from a distance the biggest mountain on skillega but when actually go near it ... it is so small I dunno I have this feeling

            - In w3 you're already predetermined character and in SKYRIM you choose who or what to be. All the rest plays the same, quest giving, quest executing quest finishing. It is just that in SKYRIM it is so streamlined and weak story telling. while in witcher the side quests compared to side quests of skyrim .. sorry but bethezda have a lot to learn.

            - Actually the story of skyrim V is a cliche... sorry but I am also an elders scrolls fan and oblivion and morrowind were much better in every aspect, except graphics of course.

            I play skyrim because of the setting and that I can be anybody and just explore the world for the sake of it, but the main reason for replaying the game is not the QUEESTS or the story IT IS DUO TO THE MOD ability of the game. Where the tools give creators the freeedom to invent whole main story quests. This is where w3 is lacking in terms of modding.

            I WISHED really wish that CD RED can give to the community the tools to create more additional content, not only visuals, sound or gameplay tweaks.

            FOR EXAMPLE - I love and adore VELEN region especially with STLM and Project destiny ... it is like the game never being downgraded with the lighting ... SUCH ATMOSPHERE such immersion. However, I wished that we had the tools to create quests. So anybody may create any kind of quests for specific region ... for example I would love to pay some kind of monthly subscription just to have some kind of CD red supported fan made quests for the reagions. The fans of SKILLEGA to have constant new quests approved by CD red the fans like me to have interesting quests for VELEN region and all that from fans to fans. For sakes .. something like CONTRACT but made by the community THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME.

            All in all w3 an SKYRIM are different in only 1 way, in skyrim you choose who or what to be and in w3 you already know who and what you are. The rest is the same:

            - you decide how to approach main quests or side quests
            - you explore the world how you want
            - you craft shit (well in skyrim much more as being a gameplay mechanic and in skill tree)
            - IN both games we have great story lines, but executed in different manner.

            For example I played the main story of SKYRIM ONLY ONCE but still play it for the never finished side quests and for the mods and the world I can mod on and then again to explore IT IS freaking fun. I will play the main story line of witcher for the 4th time cuz I can play and the turn out and finish will be SOOOO ridiculously different than the other.

            It might seems contradicting, but in SKYRIM you have like WARRIOR way, mage way and of course an ARCHER way of completing the quest. and to be honest mage or warrior with one or two handed is fuking boring. STEALTH ARCHER ... damn you can never get tired of watching that arrow in slow mo from 190782301981 meters hitting the knee of the imperial soldier. ARCHER in skyrim, everything else seems so boring, mage boring because of the horrendous console UI event with SKES script that didn't help much cutting the action of the game by oppening menus so frequently.

            BUT IN w3 you have one characted but so different ways of playing the game, you can go with only swords skills, only sign skills, or with potion skills ... or you can mix all of them or just part of them and each time the game play so freaking different, especially when you play only on DEATH MARCH ...

            1st play On patch 1.08
            2nd play on pastch 1.12
            3rd replay on patch 1.22.
            4rth platy to come now with patch 1.31 I damn it will be so different I will play the quests so differently and will be a whole lot different experience where that in SKYRIM is the SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME with one play of the game. BEcasue you may choose at the end to become a a mage ... yeeeeey not that it is bad ... but it takes from the thrill.

            and each patch of w3 played so differently.

            SO CD RED if you are able please gives us the tool like we have in skyrim to create content from fans to fans that woudl be so awesome I would create so many interesting little quests just dedicated for my favorite region >..... VELEEEEEEEN .. cuz there is no other place like VELEN

            and finally the w3 mod community is not that active... cuz after patch 1.22 barely my fav mods are updated for patch 1.31... which is kind of sad CD RED don't let community loos interest in this mod ... cuz they can keep the sales of the game on a good ratio

            Comment


            • #7
              It does not seem likely now that full modding tools would be released for TW3, it has been stated more than once that there are no plans to do so, and to be honest, it does not look like the game even needs them to be successful. If you check these "Players every day" graphs (for Skyrim, the relevant period is until late 2013, when it was at a similar age to TW3) for Skyrim, Fallout 4 and The Witcher 3, W3 is not lower relative to its peak than the others, it just did not sell as well overall (it was also outsold by console Skyrim with no modding support at all), although a fair comparison should also take into account that the Bethesda titles are exclusive to Steam on PC, while about half of the initial TW3 sales were on GOG and the graphs do not include those. Thus, I do not see the evidence that the game is "dying" because of the limited modding support. It may even outlast Fallout 4 simply because of being better and much higher rated.

              It is also quite possible that the REDkit for Witcher 3 cannot be released because of licensing issues (it depends on various commercial middleware) or other problems that would be difficult to solve. More mods could also negatively affect how the quality of the vanilla game is perceived: more "E3" and "VGX" mods would bring attention to the "downgrade", quest mods that retcon or try to "fix" the content in the main game would give the impression that it is broken or badly written, console users might complain that it is unfair that they do not have access to mods, and so on. When the REDkit for the previous game was released, it was not much of a success to begin with. Whatever the reasons are behind the decision to only release a simple ModKit, it is unlikely to have been made without serious consideration whether the benefits of full modding support would be worth the trouble.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow you giys really missed my point
                i dont care about tw3 vs Skyrim
                i care about the modding tools

                damm ... you took it to a whole new direction

                skyrim is still played by many because its modding community and thats the whole point -.-

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by muh3yxap4e View Post
                  All in all w3 an SKYRIM are different in only 1 way, in skyrim you choose who or what to be and in w3 you already know who and what you are. The rest is the same:

                  - you decide how to approach main quests or side quests
                  - you explore the world how you want
                  - you craft shit (well in skyrim much more as being a gameplay mechanic and in skill tree)
                  - IN both games we have great story lines, but executed in different manner.
                  I strongly disagree. From the gameplay mechanics, to the physics engine, to rendering, and even to the storytelling/writing and character development. They have the same things in common that every basic RPG has in common with each other, no more.

                  I have played Skyrim and nearly completed the main questline, coming to about 90% completion overall. The game looked beautiful and felt good for it's time. I remember, however, not understanding what all the hype was about. Friends would tell me that it's the best game they've ever played and it looks so amazing. But, in reality, that's all they ever said. The storyline was linear and, in my opinion, bland. It was predictable and, therefore, quite boring and monotonous. The most interesting quests were a handful of side-quests, and they were usually fairly short.

                  Now that I think about it, the only reason, I believe, for the game's popularity today is solely because of the abundance of modding utilities and activity of the modding community. I see almost no one playing it on console (except for the newly released Special Edition, of course), and you can see for yourself how many people play it on PC.

                  Wild Hunt, in essence, has none of the downfalls that Skyrim had/has - apart from minor bugs. They are two completely different monsters.

                  Originally posted by nircc View Post
                  Wow you giys really missed my point
                  i dont care about tw3 vs Skyrim
                  i care about the modding tools

                  damm ... you took it to a whole new direction

                  skyrim is still played by many because its modding community and thats the whole point -.-
                  Then you should also be aware of the fact that you can't compare these two games. They are single-player RPGs, and that's about all they have in common. By using the Skyrim modding community as an example you therefore must compare the games, whether you mean to or not.

                  Wild Hunt has a large player count even today, and a significant portion of those players aren't being accounted for in the counts that we have access to. I see no reason to worry about it's future.
                  Last edited by Hart95; 01-03-17, 18:50.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hart95 View Post
                    ...They are single-player RPGs...
                    I would even argue about that. Is there any role you can play in Skyrim? I'm afraid not, unless you can count archer, assassin, vampire, werewolf and the like, but that's all superficial. Skyrim felt more like an adventure with some semblance of RPG mechanics, at least so far as I'm concerned. Skyrim is a good game though, of that there can be little doubt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by iCake View Post

                      I would even argue about that. Is there any role you can play in Skyrim? I'm afraid not, unless you can count archer, assassin, vampire, werewolf and the like, but that's all superficial. Skyrim felt more like an adventure with some semblance of RPG mechanics, at least so far as I'm concerned. Skyrim is a good game though, of that there can be little doubt.
                      Now that you mention it, there was little in the way of "role-play" in Skyrim, yes. They gave us no background information on our character, and I find it hard to role-play well without any of that information. Imagining a history for a character seems far too artificial.

                      I believe that the idea behind the game was quite good, and it has plenty of potential. However, given Bethesda's effort, or lack thereof, in upgrading and advancing their game engine, I believe the title isn't at all worthy of GOTY. They were still using a 32-bit engine, along with FPS-based physics (which is still trending with Fallout 4). If they want to make a game that truly competes with the likes of Wild Hunt, or even Dragon Age, then they have an abundance of work to do "under the hood". Even the Special Edition looks bleak and falls short on my list when compared to what is currently out on the market. In it's release year it was a decent title, but it has long since been dated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hart95 View Post
                        I have played Skyrim and nearly completed the main questline, coming to about 90% completion overall. The game looked beautiful and felt good for it's time. I remember, however, not understanding what all the hype was about. Friends would tell me that it's the best game they've ever played and it looks so amazing. But, in reality, that's all they ever said. The storyline was linear and, in my opinion, bland. It was predictable and, therefore, quite boring and monotonous. The most interesting quests were a handful of side-quests, and they were usually fairly short.
                        To be honest, the main quest line of TW3 is also quite linear, you can play the Velen/Novigrad/Skellige parts of the first act in any order, but that is about it, and it does not really make a meaningful difference. The previous game (Assassins of Kings) actually had a branching storyline where earlier choices could significantly affect how the rest of the game plays. Also, unlike both the first two Witcher games and Skyrim, Wild Hunt tends to take sides in your choices, there is often a preferred path towards which it actively guides the player. Which is not to say it is bad, it just somehow feels like it was written more as a linear, cinematic type of game, to which "open world", "choices" and "role playing" have been added as extra features, but those are not where its real values are. A game like Skyrim just scratches a different itch, it puts more emphasis on player freedom and emergent gameplay, while narrative is less important. One might even ignore the main quests completely, and focus only on the side quests and exploration.

                        Originally posted by Hart95 View Post
                        Now that you mention it, there was little in the way of "role-play" in Skyrim, yes. They gave us no background information on our character, and I find it hard to role-play well without any of that information. Imagining a history for a character seems far too artificial.
                        Not everyone prefers a pre-defined protagonist, creating your own characters and role playing as you imagine them is also a viable approach, if it is implemented well by the game. It is neither better nor worse, just different.

                        I believe that the idea behind the game was quite good, and it has plenty of potential. However, given Bethesda's effort, or lack thereof, in upgrading and advancing their game engine, I believe the title isn't at all worthy of GOTY.
                        All games become technically outdated eventually, it is only a matter of time. Ironically, with the Special Edition and announced port to the new Nintendo console, Skyrim receives more long term support than any of the Witcher games.

                        Now that I think about it, the only reason, I believe, for the game's popularity today is solely because of the abundance of modding utilities and activity of the modding community. I see almost no one playing it on console (except for the newly released Special Edition, of course), and you can see for yourself how many people play it on PC.
                        Console markets are generally different, games have much higher initial sales, but their popularity also drops off faster. Not to mention the last generation consoles on which Skyrim was released are obsolete now. If a game is good and popular, then it lasts longer on PC, it also benefits from hardware becoming better over time. Even a cheap low end machine can easily run a game like Skyrim now at high settings, while on the PS3 it is still just as bad as it always was. Many people on PC play without mods, or with only minimal mods (e.g. the unofficial patches and maybe some tweaks), I do not think mods are the only explanation.

                        They were still using a 32-bit engine, along with FPS-based physics (which is still trending with Fallout 4).
                        The game was released in 2011, and was developed for 32-bit consoles (X360 and PS3) which are nowhere near fast enough to run it at a frame rate where the physics issues would occur.

                        In any case, if Bethesda did completely replace their engine in a future TES game, chances are that its modding support might have to be cut down significantly compared to the existing titles. Not least considering that all the knowledge and tools built around the Creation Kit by the community over the years would become obsolete. So, there is some trade-off involved, and, what is relevant to the topic, in my opinion for CDPR modding is simply a lower priority compared to delivering the best quality cinematic AAA experience. Thus, I suspect they do not develop their tools with the goal of making them friendly to "hobbyist" usage in mind, and will also use any proprietary middleware and technology that allows for making the engine more competitive, even if that comes at the cost of preventing the release of a complete REDkit for free. Now that TW3 is commercially competitive with Fallout 4 and the latter is receiving a lot of criticism, Bethesda may reconsider their approach, though. I think the general trend among large console oriented AAA studios is less support for modding, Bethesda's TES/Fallout titles have been more of the exception.
                        Last edited by sv3672; 02-03-17, 21:49.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nircc View Post

                          The reason that skyrim is still most played game till this day is because they have Modding tools to make the game better , add content , fix bugs and so on.

                          Cheers!
                          They were promised but not delivered in the end. Everyone knows the reason. Don't expect them

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sv3672 View Post
                            In any case, if Bethesda did completely replace their engine in a future TES game, chances are that its modding support might have to be cut down significantly compared to the existing titles. Not least considering that all the knowledge and tools built around the Creation Kit by the community over the years would become obsolete. So, there is some trade-off involved, and, what is relevant to the topic, in my opinion for CDPR modding is simply a lower priority compared to delivering the best quality cinematic AAA experience. Thus, I suspect they do not develop their tools with the goal of making them friendly to "hobbyist" usage in mind, and will also use any proprietary middleware and technology that allows for making the engine more competitive, even if that comes at the cost of preventing the release of a complete REDkit for free. Now that TW3 is commercially competitive with Fallout 4 and the latter is receiving a lot of criticism, Bethesda may reconsider their approach, though. I think the general trend among large console oriented AAA studios is less support for modding, Bethesda's TES/Fallout titles have been more of the exception.
                            You make a good point here, in that CDPR has made use of different middleware technologies that are what, most likely, forced them to not release a modkit for Wild Hunt.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Have you seen how much the price of Skyrim goes on sales? That is pretty much the reason why they have more players. Me, for example, never finished Skyrim but bought it anyway as it was so cheap and, what the hell, why not.

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