True but like I said sort of speak Yen's motivations for finding Ciri are her own but Emhyr gives her the extra I want results speech so full speed ahead . I think this just gives her no way out her love for Ciri and a person with holding a gun to your head saying do this , find Ciri for me . I feel Yen has no option to try more ethical means .
True but like I said sort of speak Yen's motivations for finding Ciri are her own but Emhyr gives her the extra I want results speech so full speed ahead . I think this just gives her no way out her love for Ciri and a person with holding a gun to your head saying do this , find Ciri for me . I feel Yen has no option to try more ethical means .
I disagree. Her main objective is finding Ciri. Emhyr is simply the person with the resources and means to best help achieve that objective.
In her own words: https://youtu.be/k6uAQIqzOSw?t=133
Yennefer don't believe in Gods. She is more like scientist who knows to much to believe in mystical powers. Almost everything in the world she know has logical explanation. And you are wrong about similar scene in the books. She haven't participated in ceremony she just agreed to stay there during their ceremony and was thinking about other things. Her dream about godness has nothing to do with her attitude toward religions and Gods. Same with Gerald who don't believe in Gods.
And she says to Krah why she don't want to search for Geralt. If you don't remember please re-read this moment because it's very important to understand Yennefer.
Yennefer and Geralt relationship are very funny. Neither of them welcome help from other side. Yennefer hate when Geralt is trying to help her and Geralt hate when Yennefer is trying to help him. THough that doesn't stop them from helping each other but very careful and secretly. Both are very independent and too proud to ask help and hate when help comes when they are not asking for it.
As for effects from using Mask I'm sure Yennefer was aware that this item can't destroy world or even Skelige. It's just religion bulshit a very old legend with perverted meaning. For a woman who knows that Earth is round and what Sun really is and archimagister of magic you can't expect to believe that some old mask could destroy world. Leave this to druids and Skelige folks.
:yawn:"...just thinking about consequences. How about you? Given them any thought?"
:angry2: "No."
That's all :lol:
:angry2: "No."
That's all :lol:
Mages do have a more logical understanding of the world. Dandelion's response here reflects the general populace's ignorance
As a player (trying to roleplay book Geralt), I have two main concerns against Yennefer's behaviour during the Mask quest. First one is the lack of respect with Skellige customs, in this case, the Mask is not only a magic object, but a Relic with a religious meaning for the islanders. In this regard, the tw3-Yenn behaves remarkly different from Yenn-from-the-books in a similar situation, when she "humillates" herself with a ritual/ceremony in which she doesnt belive in order to get a similar object (something very useful for her to find Ciri but with religiuos meaning for the skelligers). The second one it's the risk that Yenn assumes when she uses the mask, not only for her but for the habitants of the archipelago. The fact that she isn't sure of the side-effects of the activation is noteworthy here,but in this case I can find a similar behaviour in the books; I'm talking about her reckless assault of Vilgefortz hideout: when reading the books I always cry aloud in this momment "For Melitele's tits, could you find Geralt and do this together!". Which incidentaly is exactly what she does in TW3,But in that situation, it's true the risks are personal, while in the Mask affaire are not.
Said that, I am not arguing that Yenn behaviour in TW3 is OOC, just trying to establish some parallelisms with books. When playing TW3 for first time, I got from Yenn a strong vibre of "strong-willed, determinated mother, ready to take risks and assume the consecuences" which I understand is something completely in character
The points you make regarding the mask are very much the issues i have with her actions.
As you say they reflect her desperation regarding Ciri & i don't view them as out of character but neither do i wholeheartedly agree with them, nor necessarily see Geralt 100% agreeing with her methods even if he agrees with her motivation.
As a player (trying to roleplay book Geralt), I have two main concerns against Yennefer's behaviour during the Mask quest. First one is the lack of respect with Skellige customs, in this case, the Mask is not only a magic object, but a Relic with a religious meaning for the islanders. In this regard, the tw3-Yenn behaves remarkly different from Yenn-from-the-books in a similar situation, when she "humillates" herself with a ritual/ceremony in which she doesnt belive in order to get a similar object (something very useful for her to find Ciri but with religiuos meaning for the skelligers). The second one it's the risk that Yenn assumes when she uses the mask, not only for her but for the habitants of the archipelago. The fact that she isn't sure of the side-effects of the activation is noteworthy here,but in this case I can find a similar behaviour in the books; I'm talking about her reckless assault of Vilgefortz hideout: when reading the books I always cry aloud in this momment "For Melitele's tits, could you find Geralt and do this together!". Which incidentaly is exactly what she does in TW3,
Said that, I am not arguing that Yenn behaviour in TW3 is OOC, just trying to establish some parallelisms with books. When playing TW3 for first time, I got from Yenn a strong vibre of "strong-willed, determinated mother, ready to take risks and assume the consecuences" which I understand is something completely in character
So Geralt and Filippa steal the Sunstone, the elves could be angry and kill them for that, because for the Elves that Stone is a Relic. And Nobody except Avallac'h knows what it means.
Same Idea, but it's ok because they want to kill Eredin.
So much Ingenuity, this is so cute.
---------- Updated at 01:13 PM ----------
I don't say it's a religion Bulshit, but it's an old religion, Heathen Religion who Sacrifices Flesh and Bones, sometimes humans, sometimes Beasts for Calm Down their Gods.
Yennefer is more Rational. She has both feets on the ground, that's for sure.
Short answer: no. And I'm too tired for a long answer. It is how it is. Time to let it go.
If i say, i am not agree with you Because Geralt failed to find her first, fucked up as usual, and Trampled in the mud.
Sometimes you need a kick in the ass to Revive, So Yennefer said something like: " Weak up, Geralt, you're Head is in the Clouds."
She speaks about Geralt not the Gamer, but players have made an amalgam and they took that in Primary level. end of story.
Echoes of the Past
"Good reason" again
The whole fuss about using the mask is almost ridiculous and you know why? Because all it did was causing a stormy rain.
Do you know what Geralt can do later on? Exactly, helping a druid to change the weather to let it rain heavily:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTIH7bkN1WI
Do you also know what negative effects it had? Exactly, foglets, which you have to kill.
"If manipulating the weather carried no risks, they'd not give me peace. Make it rain, make the sun shine. some would want storms, others a sea calm as a pond frozen over..."
So here in this dialogue not the effect of the mask is the crime, but the theft. Changing the weather is not as wondrous as it seems, on the contrary the druids (or even just one) can change the weather at a whim, as long someone covers his ass like Geralt did in that alchemy quest.
It is as Ermion says, "It's the thief!" and not the myths are on trial here. Dealing with the effects of the mask wasn't even such a huge deal, just as we can see later.
In the end the explosion Ciri caused was much more dangerous that what the mask ever caused. The explosion basically destroyed this part of the island including any animals and even present humans, but the mask made just everything wet...
Here we shouldn't forget for what Geralt is here actually, to find Ciri, because all other leads are dead. So Yen isn't just doing it for Ciri, but because every other lead is dead, making this one the only remaining lead they have, the only remaining chance they have.
As Geralt can say, "valid reason". The worst the mask can cause is a storm, the best it can cause is leading them directly to Ciri.
Not just for Yen, but it should be also a valid reason for Geralt, too. Just think about what you did before this to find any leads to Ciri, so Geralt is already in it a while ago.
Did you realize how angry Geralt actually is and that he actually shows that to Yennefer?
Just seconds ago you were defending her/your cause to find Ciri, but now he is angry with her? Why? Because he can.
Imagine anyone else doing and saying this to Yennefer, do you really think she would tolerate that by anyone? No, but because it's Geralt, he can do it, telling her his opinion. The next quest will show it even clearer.
The next thing is the wicked humor she shows, again quite similar to how Geralt reacts to things.
And now the reading the mind thing, sigh. I don't really understand why it is here anyway, as it doesn't matter in this moment, as she says she wants to see what he sees. It's clear that the game wants you to "play the game", so of course you get the mask, so you can use it. She could have easily used it on her own, but since it's a game, the player has to do it.
But the really annoying thing here is the suggested behaviour that only Yennefer would read his mind and that he clearly hates it. Both assumptions are bluntly wrong, but you already know that, if you have read the books.
First of all Yennefer isn't the only one, who can read minds, actually every good sorcerer can do that, EVERY SINGLE ONE, and they do it ALL THE TIME WITH EVERYONE. They learn this at school!
It doesn't matter who you are, a commoner, a witcher or even a king, if they want to read your mind, they will. So no, Yennefer is not the only one reading Geralt's mind, but while he really dislikes it, she is the only one allowed to do it, at least when Geralt is prepared for it
The thing is while he obviously doesn't like it, it became a way to show her what he thinks and feels towards her. While he was unable to say it, he could just think of it and tell it her this way. Just think about what happened when you meet Yennefer at Kaer Trolde:
It became a way to communicate between each other, onesided sure, but Geralt even started to think for her:
She is sorry for having read what she shouldn't have, she isn't doing it on purpose, she even tells you in the game that there are some things (now...) that she doesn't even want to know (surprisingly...) and now to finish the quote above to show how important those mind reading talks and the actually talks are:
Yennefer is the only one, he lets voluntarily read his mind, the only one. So telling her to stop doing it, is the most unlikeliest event that could ever happen in this regard as this was/is the only way he can tell her what he feels deep inside of him.
"I'm willing to do anything for some people" Geralt doesn't just say this, he means it and you can probably guess for whom he will do anything:
Geralt isn't a hero nor a good Samaritan, he can do bad things, if he wants to, if it is necessary, especially if it is for those two.
I decided to go directly with her, as it became more and more difficult to find Ciri and time was running, it also underlines what Geralt said just seconds ago that he would do anything for her.
All in all I think this quest is misplaced. It seems like this quest was designed for a much more earlier state of the game, before you already know what she did in Velen. This quest and their results are basically worthless, especially if you consider what you "risked" for it. You already knew that she was in Velen, that she has a powerful ally and that she is gone again.
It seems like you were suppose to do this quest much earlier and not so late in the game.
It is also quite ironical that Ermion could have prevent all of this, if he had mentioned that the Wild Hunt was at Hindarsfjall....also a bit surprising that nobody else mentioned this at all nor that Yennefer could find that out before stealing the mask in the first place, but then we wouldn't have those funny and sexy scenes from that quest either
So, it wasn't so smart of me to ask what you think about the theft, before actually dealing with this quest, so what do you think about the mind-reading-thing? Especially those who haven't read the books before that.
I think it's a bit unfair that "reading the mind" is only associated with Yennefer, because every good sorcerer can read minds and all of them do it non-stop, and it could be interpretated quite in a negative way, though if you take a step back (and read the books
) you will realize that there is more behind that and I think they also tried to show that Geralt and Yen "play" with this, as we have seen at the appointment at Kaer Trolde, however if you don't pay attention to such details, you might miss such things easily.Next part will be about Lafoten and a certain Garden.
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Rather than re quote the wall of text I will give straight answer . The reading mind thing didn't bother me it is nice to know it is common . Now one question is Geralt's mind easy to read or just easy for Yen or if his emotional level make him easier to read ? The impression I got is Yen and Geralt's bond make it easier because Geralt does seem to be able to resist some magic to a point . This would have been a nice way to show more of a bond if Yen said out of the blue don't worry we will find her to answer his thoughts . I this case you are right though Triss should have been able to . Phillipa hints at reading Geralt .
The play through I am doing now I was able to go to Skellige right after Bloody Baron so low and behold the timing was right because I don't remember which conversation it was but there is a line about having to go back to Novigrad . Now I got the Garden and last wish done this seemed like the correct pattern the more fluid conversation wise . I think it you are right about it not fitting right if you go completely Velen , Novigrad , then Skellige .
The play through I am doing now I was able to go to Skellige right after Bloody Baron so low and behold the timing was right because I don't remember which conversation it was but there is a line about having to go back to Novigrad . Now I got the Garden and last wish done this seemed like the correct pattern the more fluid conversation wise . I think it you are right about it not fitting right if you go completely Velen , Novigrad , then Skellige .
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She's also combing her hair during this sequence which may be an indirect reference to Sword of Destiny:
"She always combed her hair before going to bed. Geralt thought it strange, but he loved to watch her do it. He suspected that Yennefer knew this."
Before I begin I want to say that this quest design is just great. Different options lead to different outcomes, another quest influences directly the dialogues, depending on whether you have done that quest before or not, not choosing a certain dialogue option leads to a new dialogue and even the order in which you choose the dialogue options changes the dialogue. In my first playthrough I realized none of this, only when I started my 2nd and done some videos to check other dialogue options.
This quest might be not as popular as others, but in terms of choice and influence? Topnotch.
Of course I played all variants, but decided to pick the one, where I didn't do the quest with Morkvag. First of all I went immediately with Yennefer and the second reason is in a canon way, Geralt wouldn't really concern himself with that, because Ciri is more important. Yennefer even remarks on this, if you join her later and not go immediately with her. Of course I will include the different dialogues here as well.
It feels like the game wanted to put Geralt into the position of the little angel, while Yennefer becomes a little devil.
Even though Geralt as the player should know that, if this trip isn't successful, it is game over, but only Yennefer seems to understand the gravity of the situation and is resolute enough to pull that off. However this quest also shows something that doesn't really match with how Yennefer acted in the books in the same regard for the same goal.
Just listen to her tone of voice and you know that her motives are led by emotions,
but despite of the situation, how desperate she is and the necessity to hurry up, she still listen to reason and doesn't insist on it, because as she says he is right.
First she is right, both don't really care about gods or religions. Neither of them is religious nor really believe in such things.
But the problem is, they do respect it. The people who are involved in those cults as their customs and their belief.
Neither of them share their belief, but they never disrespect them, especially Yennefer does everything except disrespecting it, especially the Freya cult.
However the later parts of this quest seem to show another picture and I think a lot of people misjudge it, because they don't know better or misinterpret what the game wanted to show.
"Worried this trail might've gone cold..." Yes Geralt, this might've gone cold and even though you are worried, your dedication to find any clue is seriously lacking, not even mentioning the lack of support for this case.
"Even if Craven's dead... We'll manage - How, exactly? - You'll see when the time comes."
Of course this might be an allusion to the necromancy, but I wouldn't just pin point it at this, but for the whole situation. Whenever there is a problem, you can figure out a solution. It's not a question about whether it is possible, but if you are resolute enough to find a solution and pull it off. She is, she always is.
"You could stand to be nicer sometimes. - I suppose... but then I wouldn't be the woman you fell in love with, would I?!"
And she is right, she is exactly the woman he fell in love with and I am really glad CDPR didn't change her to make her more appealing to the mass, too. Not everybody has to like her, but hating her because of fabricated reasons or just envy is stupid.
You never see a Yennefer like this ever anywhere, except when Geralt is around. Yes, she smiles from time to time, but there is a trick in real-life how to tell, whether someone laughs from heart or just forced. Whenever someone laughs from heart, unforced, s/he has wrinkles at the corner of his/her eyes.
What does this have to do with Yennefer? She does smile from time to time, but she never smile like this:
except she is with Geralt. Whenever she laughs from heart, she always shows her teeth and that's only with Geralt.
Why? Because she feels comfortable and safe with him, she is able to drop her outer shell and show her inner character, but only with him.
Whenever she is alone with him, the whole atmosphere change, as the world around them doesn't matter for a moment and when this happens, you see dialogues like this with funny remarks, playful teasing, just a good chemistry as they behave naturally.
But to come back why I didn't include it here, it's why would Geralt lecture her that black magic is no joke? Of course she knows that and Geralt too, why? Because he did something similar in Witcher 2. The whole "black magic/necromancy is bad"-thing is more than exaggerated, especially coming from Geralt, who had no problems doing that for lesser motives in Witcher 2. Their daughter is in danger and now he is doubting this is the right way?
For me personally it feels like this is just an easy way-out for the player, so the player can say "Hell, I didn't do anything in this evil necromancy, it was all Yennefer's doing" Yeah, right, that also explains why he asked what ingredients she needs, because he isn't involved in this and doesn't want answers about the whereabouts of Ciri, too...
Just blame everything on Yennefer, she can take it as usual.
I can understand what the writer(s) intended to show here that she is willing to do everything to find Ciri, but the same also happens in the books and even if she is willing to do anything for her daughter in both cases, she still has respect for such things like the Freya cult. So much respect that she doesn't do anything to disturb it and rather resign than defiling their customs.
As I said it feels like they intentionally tried to pass the buck to Yennefer, so Geralt stays "innocent". I tried to be as supportive as I could in this quest and it still feels like I wasn't even remotely useful to find any clue to Ciri, at least not until the very end of the quest.
"I don’t need everyone to like me. I most value the opinions of those I care about. You, for example." is the perfect description of her. She doesn't care what others think of her, the only one who she cares for her is standing right in front of her and we have seen in this quest before that she will listen to him, if it is reasonable.
Do you also know who doesn't care about what others think about him? Yeah, Geralt. Two of the same kind.
What if the corpse is howling in pain, because it has several flesh wounds, broken bones and is literally eaten partially and now the body is feeling this pain again? It's not the magic that is causing the pain, the magic/electricity is causing the body to move and act.
As I said at the beginning of this thread, there is no reason to distrust her at all, especially concerning her motives and goals regarding Ciri. She might not have said the whole truth here, but only because she knew that Geralt's decency is sometimes hampering him, however decency and Geralt, not exactly two things I would say often in one sentence.
But even though it should be clear, it seems it needs to be said: She is clearly feeling remorseful, bad, ill and absolutely not happy about it either. I can't help but show you something:
She didn't like it either for a second, yet it had to be done. It was the only way to get the information, the necessary information they needed, without it, it would have been Game Over and Snow Ciri would sleep forever on an island with 7 dwarves. That's why the game doesn't give you the option to choose differently, you are forced to do it, because it is necessary. The only thing you have control of is how you percieve this, either you are entitled to be "innocent" in all of this and only Yennefer is doing the "evil" things or you see the necessity in it and you can understand why it had to be done, even though both of you didn't like it.
to be continued...
This quest might be not as popular as others, but in terms of choice and influence? Topnotch.
Of course I played all variants, but decided to pick the one, where I didn't do the quest with Morkvag. First of all I went immediately with Yennefer and the second reason is in a canon way, Geralt wouldn't really concern himself with that, because Ciri is more important. Yennefer even remarks on this, if you join her later and not go immediately with her. Of course I will include the different dialogues here as well.
A trip to Hindarsfjall and Freya's Garden
Yes, in the books there is quite a part about this, showing a lot of Yennefer's personality, dark past and resolution, and it is quite similar to this quest here, however I will come to that later.
The dead are dead, but the living still live, probably. Especially in this quest I wondered about Geralt's resolution about all of this. Shouldn't he know that time is running low? Shouldn't he know that this is the only remaining clue about the whereabouts of Ciri? The last straw? The last remaing trail, because everyone else gone cold? This is the last opportunity to get to know where Ciri is, yet he shows barely any motivation, determination, ambition nor initiative in this quest. This is just the start of the quest, yet this feeling stays until the end of the quest.
It feels like the game wanted to put Geralt into the position of the little angel, while Yennefer becomes a little devil.
Even though Geralt as the player should know that, if this trip isn't successful, it is game over, but only Yennefer seems to understand the gravity of the situation and is resolute enough to pull that off. However this quest also shows something that doesn't really match with how Yennefer acted in the books in the same regard for the same goal.
Wait, what? Geralt tells Yennefer to stop and she does it? Contrary to what many people think or believe Geralt is not just subordinate to her, when he says something that is reasonable, she will listen to him, because that's how she is, a reasonable woman.
Just listen to her tone of voice and you know that her motives are led by emotions,
but despite of the situation, how desperate she is and the necessity to hurry up, she still listen to reason and doesn't insist on it, because as she says he is right.
Again her tone.
Well, still sarcastic though
So you still remember that dialogue from the feast? When she said that "People make laws, and people can change them." and that their customs are sometimes barbarous. We already saw and heard that she respects life and thinks that it should be treated right and not reckless or ruthless, even though she would do it with her own life for Ciri.
I decided to go with this version, as it would seem to be more proper that Geralt doesn't have time for this, yet if he encounter him, he will deal with him then and only then. When Geralt was looking for Ciri in the books, he also didn't bother to do contracts, but he also didn't ignored people in need, if he encountered them. The reasoning behind Yennefer also seem proper, a monster doesn't care, whether you want or not want to do something and in the end you are what you are Geralt, a monster hunter.
This is a bit misleading.
First she is right, both don't really care about gods or religions. Neither of them is religious nor really believe in such things.
But the problem is, they do respect it. The people who are involved in those cults as their customs and their belief.
Neither of them share their belief, but they never disrespect them, especially Yennefer does everything except disrespecting it, especially the Freya cult.
However the later parts of this quest seem to show another picture and I think a lot of people misjudge it, because they don't know better or misinterpret what the game wanted to show.
Such an important small talk almost casually mentioned.
"Worried this trail might've gone cold..." Yes Geralt, this might've gone cold and even though you are worried, your dedication to find any clue is seriously lacking, not even mentioning the lack of support for this case.
"Even if Craven's dead... We'll manage - How, exactly? - You'll see when the time comes."
Of course this might be an allusion to the necromancy, but I wouldn't just pin point it at this, but for the whole situation. Whenever there is a problem, you can figure out a solution. It's not a question about whether it is possible, but if you are resolute enough to find a solution and pull it off. She is, she always is.
"You could stand to be nicer sometimes. - I suppose... but then I wouldn't be the woman you fell in love with, would I?!"
And she is right, she is exactly the woman he fell in love with and I am really glad CDPR didn't change her to make her more appealing to the mass, too. Not everybody has to like her, but hating her because of fabricated reasons or just envy is stupid.
And now comes another part, maybe the best, showing the chemistry between those two, their natural behaviour towards each other, they mutual understanding, the same kind of humor (light, dark and sarcastic) and just the same thinking. Almost forgetting why they are here...
This dialogue... you need to see that in action:
You never see a Yennefer like this ever anywhere, except when Geralt is around. Yes, she smiles from time to time, but there is a trick in real-life how to tell, whether someone laughs from heart or just forced. Whenever someone laughs from heart, unforced, s/he has wrinkles at the corner of his/her eyes.
What does this have to do with Yennefer? She does smile from time to time, but she never smile like this:
except she is with Geralt. Whenever she laughs from heart, she always shows her teeth and that's only with Geralt.
Why? Because she feels comfortable and safe with him, she is able to drop her outer shell and show her inner character, but only with him.
Whenever she is alone with him, the whole atmosphere change, as the world around them doesn't matter for a moment and when this happens, you see dialogues like this with funny remarks, playful teasing, just a good chemistry as they behave naturally.
Now it becomes interesting. I didn't even suspect it, I just wanted know what happens in another scene, so I skipped this option without thinking about it, but it resulted surprisingly in a changed dialogue.
But to come back why I didn't include it here, it's why would Geralt lecture her that black magic is no joke? Of course she knows that and Geralt too, why? Because he did something similar in Witcher 2. The whole "black magic/necromancy is bad"-thing is more than exaggerated, especially coming from Geralt, who had no problems doing that for lesser motives in Witcher 2. Their daughter is in danger and now he is doubting this is the right way?
For me personally it feels like this is just an easy way-out for the player, so the player can say "Hell, I didn't do anything in this evil necromancy, it was all Yennefer's doing" Yeah, right, that also explains why he asked what ingredients she needs, because he isn't involved in this and doesn't want answers about the whereabouts of Ciri, too...
Just blame everything on Yennefer, she can take it as usual.
So what happens, if you do choose this option?
So what exactly is wrong here? Pretty much everything.
You decide to lecture a 90-ish years old sorceress about magic and what's even worse, you already participated in black magic, in necromancy in the previous game and you had no problem with that.
Instead of helping, you are almost trying to prevent it. You are basically preventing the only way to get information about the whereabouts of Ciri, I don't know if that is really your intention.
"your please is never a request" is not correct. There was not once a moment, when she forced him to do anything. He always had a choice, but the thing is her pleas are almost never incomprehensible, just one example:
Yes, there was/is no point in arguing with her, but was she wrong? No, and that is pretty much always the case, except if you do/say something that makes (more) sense, like at the beginning of this quest, when you tell Yennefer to stop it. She listens to him, because he was for once reasonable, something he lacks quite often.
It's just a piss poor excuse, even Nenneke is pissed off by his behaviour:
"Fine, you busy yourself pouting. I’ll handle the rest." and that's the best, while Geralt is busy nagging, Yennefer gets shit done.
and now back to the normal run.
Yeah and this is the part where it is unfair, unnatural and not consisting with what Yennefer from the books would do.
I can understand what the writer(s) intended to show here that she is willing to do everything to find Ciri, but the same also happens in the books and even if she is willing to do anything for her daughter in both cases, she still has respect for such things like the Freya cult. So much respect that she doesn't do anything to disturb it and rather resign than defiling their customs.
This is ONLY an option, if you tried to lecture her about the black magic. He is basically trying to find excuses to not do it, but this would result in losing the last trail to find Ciri, so seriously, who the fuck is that guy? Is he even interested in finding Ciri anymore?
As I said it feels like they intentionally tried to pass the buck to Yennefer, so Geralt stays "innocent". I tried to be as supportive as I could in this quest and it still feels like I wasn't even remotely useful to find any clue to Ciri, at least not until the very end of the quest.
Pretty much the first option that really showed any support for this cause and any agreement of what she is doing or will do. It's not Yennefer, who is making enemies, it's them. They are both together in this, because it's their daughter.
"I don’t need everyone to like me. I most value the opinions of those I care about. You, for example." is the perfect description of her. She doesn't care what others think of her, the only one who she cares for her is standing right in front of her and we have seen in this quest before that she will listen to him, if it is reasonable.
Do you also know who doesn't care about what others think about him? Yeah, Geralt. Two of the same kind.
And now something really interesting, you can be either be a douchebag or show sympathy to her. Depending in which order you choose the options, the dialogue changes, however even though there are 3 options to choose first, there are only 2 variations, still very nice.Celain, celain, deffraen!
Celain, celain, davedar!
Aaaaaaach!
Are you Craven of Lofoten?!
Nnn… Nnooooo... Iiiiiii… Haaaaavvvvve…. A naaaaaaammmmmme… Sssssssssskjalll! Skjalllll! Iiiiiii aaaaaammmmmm Skjaaaaallll!
We’re looking for Ciri.
We’re looking for Ciri. Ashen hair, green eyes… Have you seen her?
She… she’s why they cursed me…
I don’t care about that! What happened to her? What was she doing here? Speak!
No…
Speak!
Ach!
Speak!
The sea… she fell… almost drowned…
What became of that creature? Where is he?!
Stop…. Hurts….
What?!
Saw him… at… Donars…But….he…sold…him…
To whom?!
Don’t…know….
Begone.
Tell…theemmm…clean…my…nae….
Begone I say!
Aach!
Get your shit together, Geralt. Shows how much Yennefer is dedicated to Ciri, even more as Geralt, if you decide to cheer up a corpse instead of finding clues about your daughter. Makes the lack of Yennefer & Ciri moments even more heartbreaking...
In the end it is a matter of trust. Do you trust Yennefer telling the truth? That this boy was no longer a human anymore, just flesh and bones, a rotting thing? It spoke through her magic and only through it, maybe comparable to using electricity on a dead frog to force it to move.
What if the corpse is howling in pain, because it has several flesh wounds, broken bones and is literally eaten partially and now the body is feeling this pain again? It's not the magic that is causing the pain, the magic/electricity is causing the body to move and act.
As I said at the beginning of this thread, there is no reason to distrust her at all, especially concerning her motives and goals regarding Ciri. She might not have said the whole truth here, but only because she knew that Geralt's decency is sometimes hampering him, however decency and Geralt, not exactly two things I would say often in one sentence.
But even though it should be clear, it seems it needs to be said: She is clearly feeling remorseful, bad, ill and absolutely not happy about it either. I can't help but show you something:
This seems to be perfectly fine with many, vengeance:
However this is outrageous:
I don't want to pass the buck now to Triss, I think her reaction is understandable and I like that CDPR finally decided to show a bit more of her "bad girl side" (even though I would have like to see a dispute about the amnesia with her, but that's another topic...), but it's just annoying and really exhausting that people want to glorify one and crucify the other without even reflecting on what and why it actually happened.
Nobody will argue that it wasn't understandable, but it is indeed questionable, whether it was right to kill them, whether it was necessary to kill them.
But using the power of the Garden was necessary to get information about Ciri, an information they wouldn't have get otherwise. There was no way around it. If there was, they (and especially Yennefer) would have done it, at least the one I know from the books would have done it concerning Freya.
Pardon me for pulling here some comparisons, but geez it's so exhausting that one gets a free pass, while the other has to justify every little move she does, to explain it over and over and over again, well, I hope this thread (and others) can help to understand more of her and get rid of those prejudicies, because this is exactly what the common folk in the books and games always did with people like Geralt and Yennefer, judging them without even trying to get to know them. Anyway, I am getting lost in this...
However this is outrageous:
I don't want to pass the buck now to Triss, I think her reaction is understandable and I like that CDPR finally decided to show a bit more of her "bad girl side" (even though I would have like to see a dispute about the amnesia with her, but that's another topic...), but it's just annoying and really exhausting that people want to glorify one and crucify the other without even reflecting on what and why it actually happened.
Nobody will argue that it wasn't understandable, but it is indeed questionable, whether it was right to kill them, whether it was necessary to kill them.
But using the power of the Garden was necessary to get information about Ciri, an information they wouldn't have get otherwise. There was no way around it. If there was, they (and especially Yennefer) would have done it, at least the one I know from the books would have done it concerning Freya.
Pardon me for pulling here some comparisons, but geez it's so exhausting that one gets a free pass, while the other has to justify every little move she does, to explain it over and over and over again, well, I hope this thread (and others) can help to understand more of her and get rid of those prejudicies, because this is exactly what the common folk in the books and games always did with people like Geralt and Yennefer, judging them without even trying to get to know them. Anyway, I am getting lost in this...
She didn't like it either for a second, yet it had to be done. It was the only way to get the information, the necessary information they needed, without it, it would have been Game Over and Snow Ciri would sleep forever on an island with 7 dwarves. That's why the game doesn't give you the option to choose differently, you are forced to do it, because it is necessary. The only thing you have control of is how you percieve this, either you are entitled to be "innocent" in all of this and only Yennefer is doing the "evil" things or you see the necessity in it and you can understand why it had to be done, even though both of you didn't like it.
to be continued...
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So great to see others who see the whole Yen / Geralt relationship as I read in the books and the mixed way in parts it has been handled and come across in the game. I cannot criticise CDPR for how they did it mainly because if they hadn't made the 3 games I would not have had the opportunity to read 7 great books involving a gripping saga.
Every play through I have done (now on the 4th) I have never been able to bring myself to pair up with Triss. I did in the first 2 games mainly because it was how they were written and at the time it was very difficult to find English versions of the books to find out the full background story.
But since reading the books there is no way I can even contemplate being with Triss; as Geralt says he only ever thinks of Yen and she is the only woman in whom he loves unconditionally even though he is unsure at times of how to express his emotions.
Thanks Kallelinski your insights and interpretations are a great justice to two very strong characters who are meant to be a partnership. In the Lady of the Lake this is so apparent with how the series ends; I am hoping Andrzej will write another couple of stories about them after their time on Avalon - only because I love the saga.
Every play through I have done (now on the 4th) I have never been able to bring myself to pair up with Triss. I did in the first 2 games mainly because it was how they were written and at the time it was very difficult to find English versions of the books to find out the full background story.
But since reading the books there is no way I can even contemplate being with Triss; as Geralt says he only ever thinks of Yen and she is the only woman in whom he loves unconditionally even though he is unsure at times of how to express his emotions.
Thanks Kallelinski your insights and interpretations are a great justice to two very strong characters who are meant to be a partnership. In the Lady of the Lake this is so apparent with how the series ends; I am hoping Andrzej will write another couple of stories about them after their time on Avalon - only because I love the saga.
Thank you for doing this, it's an excellent read.
I'm currently on my second playthrough and as I have with the other Witcher games, am doing the opposite of my first run. As a result, it's a Triss game and I've just completed The Last Wish quest - ouch doesn't feel right at all...
I'm currently on my second playthrough and as I have with the other Witcher games, am doing the opposite of my first run. As a result, it's a Triss game and I've just completed The Last Wish quest - ouch
doesn't feel right at all...A trip to Hindarsfjall and Freya's Garden - Part 2
"we had no choice"
"...what happened to our---"
It's nice to see that Geralt can at least in the end show that what Yennefer did was necessary and they had no choice otherwise, to show some kind of support, show understanding and not judgement.
However Yennefer doesn't want that Geralt gets the blame for what she did and even tries to defend him.
She doesn't want that Geralt is being blamed for what she did, even though you can share the blame.
But even though her reputation, which was really good before that on Skellige, it isn't important, it's only important what Skjall told them.
"We will pull her out of it" no matter what, no ifs, no doubts.
Without this necromancy they would have never know that there is a correlation between Uma and Ciri.
What is a curse to a sorceress and a witcher? Nothing. As I said, there are no problems, just solutions.
She even goes so far to consider that Ciri is that cursed thing, already preparing for the worst case scenario.
Yes, ladies and gentleman, that's a "Thank you" by Yennefer. Nothing to see here, oh wait.
Look at that smirk, getting a "thank you" by Yennefer must be something
This following dialogue only appears here already, when you have other "more important business" to do, you will have this talk immediately, because the next quest is optional. Of course Geralt, I went with the first option, because why wouldn't Geralt decline request of help from his love of life
She shows understanding towards him, too. If he has other important stuff to do and he says so, so be it, she won't force him to do it against his will. It's just a plea by her, however Geralt can decline it (despite what he can say in an earlier alternate dialogue!).
She reminds him that he and she agreed to Emhyr, she has a lot more of experience in politics and we all know what happens when Geralt is involved in politics, usually nothings good. She is again reasonable.
Yup, Geralt listened to Emhyr and even though he didn't really agree to anything, he is still involved in it, whether he wants it or not.
!!!! She can't force Geralt to do anything, so stop that bullshit with being a dog or subordinate to her. If he does something for her, then it is voluntary and in particular not because of a wish...but this will be a much longer post I am afraid.
Did I say reasonable? I think I did. Again, politics, you don't have to like it, but you need someone who knows how to play it. Pissing off the biggest military leader in the known world is probably not the greatest idea ever.
I didn't like it either, I didn't like the whole idea of Emhyr getting his precious daughter back after what happened in the books, but as I said, pissing him off doesn't seem to be the smartest thing ever, however I did it anyway
Hopeful and determined, if there is a problem, they will find a solution.
Yeah, those days, when Geralt was running away, because he couldn't live for a longer time at one place. Unable to face problems and rather runs away instead of dealing with it.
"You're right" just let that sink in, she is agreeing that Geralt is right. So much for "Geralt always have to agree with what she says."-bullshit.
But now you will tell me, "Kallelinski, I thought you have an issue with this quest and how Yennefer is represented in it, however all you do is complaining about Geralt, so what's the issue?"
I will tell you, but it's even better, when I show you the difference.
First off Geralt isn't religious, just the way Yennefer is, but both respect religions and cults and they don't mock those, who worship them.
When Yennefer was teaching Ciri magic in Blood of Elves at the temple of the Melitele, this dialogue occurs:
She doesn't use those powers how much and whenever she wants it, she wished more people would see how destructive this can be for nature. This is quite contrary to what happened in the game, where she draws every little force out of the garden to use necromancy, but in the game it was needed. She wouldn't haven done it, if it wasn't avoidable. The game tries to show that she is remorseful about that, that she is not happy with this either, but what had to be done, had to be done.
It is for the sake of Ciri, however a really similar situation will occur later in the books, in the Tower of the Swallow and that's where the problem lies.
For some context, Ciri is missing, Geralt is on a trip through the world to find Ciri, unsuccessfully, and Yennefer was held captive by the Lodge until she could escape with the help of Fringilla. When she got through the portal, she landed in the sea, close to Skellige, where she is picked up by a boat.
Yennefer earned a good reputation in that short time she was there:
When she was waiting for Crach an Craite, this happened:
She doesn't care right now what happens with her, everything has to wait, because her daughter is in danger. This is her top priority and nothing else matters.
This is exactly how the game describes her, she acts and only cares for Ciri, even her own well-being is secondary right now.
But now the problem comes. She needs a working Megascope, but for that she needs a really big jewel, but there is no jewel big enough, except for one.
She doesn't mock priestesses, there is just no mutual friendship between sorcerers and priests, too different in their ideologies.
She did something selfless without any ulterior motive, but only to help and the priestess realized that.
Yennefer asks for it and not just take it.
She brings up the necessary respect and doesn't act against them. She respects her decision and accepts it, she doesn't work around.
And now comes the part, where Yennefer comes into contact with the superstition and she has to come in terms with herself before she is granted anything.
Oh, and she will suffer, for a long time, later, but she is willing to take this risk, this suffering for her, for Ciri.
But before she is granted anything, she has to accept herself.
This is how she got what she needed. Not by just taking it, not by stealing, not by cheating, but by respect, self-awareness and self-acceptance and with that she was given the jewel, because Freya saw just a mother caring for her daughter and she realized that Yennefer would do anything for her.
So what exactly is the difference?
In the game she does what is necessary, but without the consent of the local cult. The very same cult she still asked for permission in the books, so why didn't she do it this time? Why did she disregard the priestesses this time and did just what was necessary?
In both scenarios Ciri's life was in danger, in both scenarios she had no other trail anymore, in both scenarios something very precious was needed. In one a giant jewel and the other one a huge amount of force, but for one she asked, but not for permission of using the garden.
I personally don't hold too much of a grudge of her for using the garden's force, if at all, the garden will regenerate with time and it had to be done, otherwise we would have never learned about Uma and his connection to Ciri, and I also believe her- I know that she felt shitty after it, that she truly wasn't happy about it either, but there is still this strange feeling that it could have been "better" handled.
It's clear that she felt lousy, miserable and wretched about it, but I would have liked to see that she tries to make up for it, at least a little bit. She doesn't regret that she did it, no, it had to be done, but she regret that it had to be done this way and there was no way around.
So what should she have done to "pay back" something? Why not let her go with CIri and Geralt to look after Skjall? Why not let her participate in his proper burial?
Imagine you tell Ciri that there is no time for that and then Yennefer says that we can of course make time for that.
It would give her another opportunity to show that while it had to be done, she didn't like it one bit either, but at the same time it would show that she cares more about what happens with him, a nobody to her, than his own clansmen. It would be a nice end to it for all three in the end.
And maybe the problem is just that we see everything from Geralt's perspective, in the books it was seen from Yennefer's perspective. We can even see her thoughts and her struggle with herself.
So in the end it's not a question of whether you should use the garden or not, but whether you trust and believe her that she also felt as bad as you did after it, to show understanding and not just judgement.
