I'm a horrible person, and I didn't even realize it [SPOILERS]

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I'm a horrible person, and I didn't even realize it [SPOILERS]

(Game: Skellige / Book: Blood of Elves Spoilers)

I'm in my NG+ playthrough currently. I've finally gotten around to working toward the main quest, and I've also been reading the books. I finished Blood of Elves two days ago, and today I did Yennefer's romance quest.

In my original playthrough, I decided to choose Yennefer because that was "canon" to the original series, although I hadn't read the books, I was aware that she was "the one" in the books. For NG+ I decided to switch it up and romance Triss, and to be incredibly honest I think it was one of the work decisions I've ever made in a game. Yennefer's response to my rejection, to the fact that I was throwing our history down the drain hurt me in my soul. When I started reading the books, I thought she was a total bitch. She was callous, unsavory, and I didn't see what Geralt saw in her. Reading through Blood of Elves changed that for me. The love and care that she shows to Ciri, the bonding that goes on throughout the end of the book is just pristine.

I regret making the decision to romance Triss in NG+ based solely on Last Wish/Sword of Destiny Yennefer. I didn't give her time to open up, I didn't give the world enough time to wear down her hard shell. Needless to say, I'll be running through NG++ (if that's a thing...) again to romance Yennefer.

Just sharing my experience, but let me know if you agree/disagree.
 
I didn't mind cannons or anything when I romanced those ladies. I just wanted to explore every option in the game. However, when I had to broke up with Yen, I felt myself like a biggest asshole in the whole world. It literaly hurt. Not because of the books, not because of any other reason like that... That quest and it's atmosphere was just perfectly made.
 
Never liked Yen and all her attitude during 3... And reading shit like "A Shard of Ice"... well the ONLY reason a guy would put up with that crap (Or do the running off Geralt did in the first place) would be if the love was magically induced by a Djinn to be hot and cold... which isn't something I'd like.

So being able to go "Nope, was totally just the Djinn" was actually very satisfying to me

#TeamTriss.
 
Corewolf;n8045610 said:
Never liked Yen and all her attitude during 3... And reading shit like "A Shard of Ice"... well the ONLY reason a guy would put up with that crap (Or do the running off Geralt did in the first place) would be if the love was magically induced by a Djinn to be hot and cold... which isn't something I'd like.

So being able to go "Nope, was totally just the Djinn" was actually very satisfying to me

#TeamTriss.

I mean... Yeah she's rather caustic for the first two books, but that means that we don't fully understand Geralt's reasons for loving her. I think Sapkowski does a great job keeping the reader in the dark regarding their relationship. Their relationship is kind of like that relationship you've seen with your friends or other loved one where you think "What the hell can he/she/they see in him/her/them?" before getting your answer some time later and you go "oooooh, now I understand. I'm happy for them." Love isn't the absence of anger, hatred, or fighting. Love is an overarching feeling that you have for someone. The desire to remain with someone despite their faults, despite the anger, hatred, or disdain you feel for them sometimes. I'm a #Fannefer because their relationship is real, it's unapologetically authentic, and much more mature than the relationship with Triss. Their relationship is fairy tale. It's not realistic, and frankly rather boring. But to each their own.

Is #Fannefer a thing? I think it should be a thing.
 
iokhta;n8049200 said:
. Love is an overarching feeling that you have for someone. The desire to remain with someone despite their faults, despite the anger, hatred, or disdain you feel for them sometimes.

Oh yeah no I can totally understand this viewpoint. It's just that in the Book "The Last Wish" (Not the quest) Yen literally goes from saying "Meh, you aren't anything special, I don't care about you, I just want the Djinn" Then putting a spell on Geralt and saying You'll lick my boot and maybe something else for my amusement before going out and taking revenge on these spiteful people that said things I don't like" to "OMG Geralt I love you I heard your wish" *Cue sex in a wrecked house* Just because of a wish.

That isn't love, that is magical infatuation.

She was desperate to get out of Rinde but couldn't because in typical Yen fashion, she'd gotten every major power player in the city furious at her. She used Geralt to go after these people that she couldn't directly herself without getting arrested or further making a problem for herself.

Hence, Yen didn't care for Geralt initially,

Geralt though wanted to save her from the Djinn, but had to make a wish that wouldn't end with the Djinn killing one or both of them... Because his last wish was something that the Djinn could and did pervert and make them miserable with that still allowed for the two of them to live. So they were magically induced to be bound together forever. It's why no matter how many times they've broken up, no matter how much they fight, they always find their way back to one another. So they can be miserable.


It isn't a GOOD thing. It was a wish granted by a DJINN. If you don't word things JUST right, they bite you in the ass. Why do you think the thing flew off laughing after Geralt made his wish? Because he KNEW they would be miserable.

But because they keep breaking up and coming back to each other, breaking up and coming back to each other, their destinies bound and then Ciri comes in and Yen goes "I'll be the girl's mother. Which makes so many people are fixate on the idea that they're soul mates, meant forever to be lovers and be with each other.

But that's just not true. It's a spell, a spiteful one made by a pissed off Djin that binds them and once removed, their true feelings can finally be revealed.


Tie that with how just downright abusive she is to him during the Witcher 3, not to mention she strung him and that sorcerer in Shard of Ice along for YEARS and refused to even consider choosing just one of them... Yeah no, I think anyone would leave an abusive relationship if their emotions weren't magically tied up by a Djinn to be blind to said abuse.

Now YEN could probably come out of this and realize "Oh god, I've been around this guy so long, I've been horrible to him and he still loves me" and realize in that instant that she actually has feelings for him... and maybe Geralt could too...

But then again he just as easily could go "Holy shit I put up with that? What the HELL was I thinking?"

Because Magic!
 
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Corewolf;n8049550 said:
Oh yeah no I can totally understand this viewpoint. It's just that in the Book "The Last Wish" (Not the quest) Yen literally goes from saying "Meh, you aren't anything special, I don't care about you, I just want the Djinn" Then putting a spell on Geralt and saying You'll lick my boot and maybe something else for my amusement before going out and taking revenge on these spiteful people that said things I don't like" to "OMG Geralt I love you I heard your wish" *Cue sex in a wrecked house* Just because of a wish.

That isn't love, that is magical infatuation.

She was desperate to get out of Rinde but couldn't because in typical Yen fashion, she'd gotten every major power player in the city furious at her. She used Geralt to go after these people that she couldn't directly herself without getting arrested or further making a problem for herself.

Hence, Yen didn't care for Geralt initially,

But you've read Blood of Elves, have you not? Her callous nature towards Geralt in the first book is clearly a defense mechanism for her. She's dealt with a ton of adversity: she was a hunchback, she's barren though she wants children, and she was probably forced into being a sorceress because of her appearance. I was taken aback by her quick switch in feelings towards Geralt in the first book UNTIL I finished Blood of Elves. Everything started to make more sense then. She's a self-conscious, damaged, and deeply hurt woman attempting to compensate for it.

She's not a heartless person, she's just defending herself and her feelings. What's more, when sorceresses are treated as they are, you can't blame her for acting like society expects her to act. It's much easier to publicly act like a stern, heartless person than to attempt to change the public's mind about you. If you show weakness to the public when they expect to be strong, they'll take advantage of that.

I also don't really think you're accounting for how damaged Geralt is. He up and left her between TLW and SoD. He's got a hole in his heart where he was hurt by another sorceress before he had even matured. His mother gave him away, presumably to his death, given how few children survive the Trial of the Grasses. The power that that knowledge has over a person is immense, and I don't know that he could ever get over that. He'll be tortured by those trust issues for the rest of his life, and those issues are just as damaging to Yen as it is to Geralt.
 
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iokhta;n8040140 said:
(Game: Skellige / Book: Blood of Elves Spoilers)

I'm in my NG+ playthrough currently. I've finally gotten around to working toward the main quest, and I've also been reading the books. I finished Blood of Elves two days ago, and today I did Yennefer's romance quest.

In my original playthrough, I decided to choose Yennefer because that was "canon" to the original series, although I hadn't read the books, I was aware that she was "the one" in the books. For NG+ I decided to switch it up and romance Triss, and to be incredibly honest I think it was one of the work decisions I've ever made in a game. Yennefer's response to my rejection, to the fact that I was throwing our history down the drain hurt me in my soul. When I started reading the books, I thought she was a total bitch. She was callous, unsavory, and I didn't see what Geralt saw in her. Reading through Blood of Elves changed that for me. The love and care that she shows to Ciri, the bonding that goes on throughout the end of the book is just pristine.

I regret making the decision to romance Triss in NG+ based solely on Last Wish/Sword of Destiny Yennefer. I didn't give her time to open up, I didn't give the world enough time to wear down her hard shell. Needless to say, I'll be running through NG++ (if that's a thing...) again to romance Yennefer.

Just sharing my experience, but let me know if you agree/disagree.
I could make my own argument for Yen, but I feel like I've done so far too many times and have become tired of it. Besides, you've done a great job explaining her personality and nuances. She's a lovely character, and I'd probably fall in love with her myself were she real.

I'm in the midst of my third playthrough of Wild Hunt, and, after having read all of the books - except "Lady of the Lake" -, I can't imagine breaking Yen's heart like that. Even when I told Triss goodbye and let her sail for Kovir in my first two playthroughs I felt like an ass. This is all a testament to the superb skills of the entire CDPR team.
 
Hart95;n8050370 said:
I could make my own argument for Yen, but I feel like I've done so far too many times and have become tired of it. Besides, you've done a great job explaining her personality and nuances. She's a lovely character, and I'd probably fall in love with her myself were she real.

I'm in the midst of my third playthrough of Wild Hunt, and, after having read all of the books - except "Lady of the Lake" -, I can't imagine breaking Yen's heart like that. Even when I told Triss goodbye and let her sail for Kovir in my first two playthroughs I felt like an ass. This is all a testament to the superb skills of the entire CDPR team.

Thanks :)

To tell you the truth, I think the reason I was so hurt by rejecting her this playthrough was because I feel like the relationship Yen and Geralt have is very similar to the relationship my fiancee and I have. We're both damaged people (who isn't?), and we hurt each other. The love that we have, however, is worth the pain. I couldn't imagine myself with another person.

I hope you find a Yen of your own.

EDIT: Our relationship isn't nearly as turbulent or painful as the one that Yen and Geralt have, but the parallels are there.
 
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iokhta;n8050010 said:
But you've read Blood of Elves, have you not? Her callous nature towards Geralt in the first book is clearly a defense mechanism for her. She's dealt with a ton of adversity: she was a hunchback, she's barren though she wants children, and she was probably forced into being a sorceress because of her appearance. I was taken aback by her quick switch in feelings towards Geralt in the first book UNTIL I finished Blood of Elves.

Yes, but she was still under the influence of the Djinn's spell, even then. We don't see every bit of their early relationship, so the stuff in Blood of the elves could have been one of the "come closer" phases before something else caused them a huge emotional upset

Like Amnesia!

I postulate that their entire existence and the events of games 1-3 up until they are free of the spell is all the Djinn fucking with them to cause issue with their emotions!


In all actuality, there is a short bit in the "World of the Witcher" book that talks about how she became a Sorceress

"Adepts name: Yennefer
Former name: Jenny

After initial testing confirmed her magical talent, the adept was admitted to Aretuza's first class. The girl comes from a pathological family – her father abused her psychically and physically. and her mother failed to support her. This rejection and abuse were likely precipitated by the deformation of the girl's spinal column and scapula (she was a hunchback), or possibly by her mixed human-elven bloodline (she is quarter elvish, her mother a half blood). It was undoubtedly the lingering effects of these traumatic childhood experiences that drove her to attempt suicide soon after admission to our academy. The girl tried to cut open her forearm veins and ended up inflicting serious tendon damage (healer documentation attached for reference). Despite the above, the adept was personally recommended and very highly graded by the Chancellor of our Academy, Archmistress Tissaia de Vries. Her deformities and tendon trauma were corrected with use of higher magic during her first year, and her further education has fully vindicated the Chancellor's high opinion. Adept Yennefer is highly talented and determined student. Her results on subsequent exams have remained excellent."

So yeah, she had a hard early life and has reason to be self conscious, but I still want to point out that thing with Istredd... She was stringing him along for YEARS before Geralt. Then Cheated on Geralt with him.

And yes, I can blame her for acting, in private, the way she does when she has little reason to do so in one on one situations with Geralt. She's pissed and in a fairly private place so she hurls a bed out of a tower in Khaer Moren just because Triss slept with Geralt in it? That isn't "putting on a front" that is acting childish, on impulse, and in a very... unfair way instead of talking about it first.
 
Corewolf;n8049550 said:
But that's just not true. It's a spell, a spiteful one made by a pissed off Djin that binds them and once removed, their true feelings can finally be revealed.

I have a hard time to understand how anyone can say that Yen/Geralt love was fake or because of Djinn after reading all eight books of Witcher saga way before any games were released - this clearly was a RPG game tool how to break it with Yennefer invented by CDPR - before games I really didn't see any discussion regarding this. Before games there also was no TeamTriss - more like TeamFringilla. :)

 
Corewolf;n8050480 said:
So yeah, she had a hard early life and has reason to be self conscious, but I still want to point out that thing with Istredd... She was stringing him along for YEARS before Geralt. Then Cheated on Geralt with him.

And yes, I can blame her for acting, in private, the way she does when she has little reason to do so in one on one situations with Geralt. She's pissed and in a fairly private place so she hurls a bed out of a tower in Khaer Moren just because Triss slept with Geralt in it? That isn't "putting on a front" that is acting childish, on impulse, and in a very... unfair way instead of talking about it first.

Geralt is just as childish if not more so. He denies his emotions, and believes that true neutrality is a thing. He despises "the lesser evil" and refuses to compromise much of the time. He's recalcitrant, and he's as much of a philanderer as Yen is, if not more so. It's a two way street.

Yen's relationship with Istredd is just as complex as her's with Geralt, and I don't think you can call it "stringing him along" without more info. That whole story is incredibly complex, and I don't feel we were given enough information to judge anyone's fault.

Gilthoniel;n8050510 said:
I have a hard time to understand how anyone can say that Yen/Geralt love was fake or because of Djinn after reading all eight books of Witcher saga way before any games were released - this clearly was a RPG game tool how to break it with Yennefer invented by CDPR - before games I really didn't see any discussion regarding this. Before games there also was no TeamTriss - more like TeamFringilla. :)


Where did you get that quote for the picture? I wanna read the interview.
 
Love his writing, but Sapkowski has also stated

"The game - with all due respect to it, but let's finally say it openly - is not an 'alternative version', nor a sequel. The game is a free adaptation containing elements of my work; an adaptation created by different authors," "Adaptations - although they can in a way relate to the story told in the books - can never aspire to the role of a follow-up. They can never add prologues nor prequels, let alone epilogues and sequels"

So by that logic, Geralt and Yen are dead. Done. Game wasn't written by Sapkowski, therefore isn't canon.

"I will definitely skip any 'alternative ideas'," Sapkowski promised. "It'll come easily to me anyway, as I don't know any of them. And even if I knew, it would be funny and silly were I to write based on the game's suggestions. I suppose I have made myself clear when I said that I will never accept any ideas and concepts of 'complementarity plots' and 'building coherent stories'. A story can only be contained in a book."

Game isn't even a story.

As to the above picture. It's easy to make an impassioned statement in the heat of the moment. Love can be one sided, can be unrequited and can even be a spur of the moment "At first sight" thing.

The fact that a Djinn's spell influenced it means that, yes it could be seen as fake or unnatural as much as slipping someone who is indifferent to you a love potion would be. Just because he didn't bring it up in the other books doesn't mean that it didn't happen (according to his own logic)
 
Corewolf;n8050590 said:
Love his writing, but Sapkowski has also stated

The fact that a Djinn's spell influenced it means that, yes it could be seen as fake or unnatural as much as slipping someone who is indifferent to you a love potion would be. Just because he didn't bring it up in the other books doesn't mean that it didn't happen (according to his own logic)


So we can also say that Geralt/Ciri bond also isn't natural because it was all because of Law of Surprise and Destiny. And what about the ending of the Lady of The Lake, isn't that as you said that they"died" so why Geralt and Yennefer saying to each other the words...remember the very last conversation they have in the saga, right?...is that still influenced by magic even after they are "dead"? I'm wondering how exactly it works during the ingame Triss romance then, if the Djinn was the reason for the Yen/Geralt thing then the player shouldn't have been able to choose Triss BEFORE breaking the Djinn curse, right? Or is Amnesia stronger than magic? hmm

also older comment by CatchTheBreeze:

Love in The Witcher’s Universe

If look carefully we can find that in the books and the games Love is something parallel and uncontrollable for Magic. Love even can break it, break the powerful magical curses. Remember Nivellen from the books, remember Graham and Annabelle from the last game. True Love literally can everything in The Witcher. And when love is so strong and uncontrollable you think that someone can fake it?



 
Gilthoniel;n8050660 said:
So we can also say that Geralt/Ciri bond also isn't natural because it was all because of Law of Surprise and Destiny. And what about the ending of the Lady of The Lake, isn't that as you said that they"died" so why Geralt and Yennefer saying to each other the words...remember the very last conversation they have in the saga, right?...is that still influenced by magic even after they are "dead"? I'm wondering how exactly it works during the ingame Triss romance then, if the Djinn was the reason for the Yen/Geralt thing then the player shouldn't have been able to choose Triss BEFORE breaking the Djinn curse, right? Or is Amnesia stronger than magic? hmm

also older comment by CatchTheBreeze:

Love in The Witcher’s Universe

If look carefully we can find that in the books and the games Love is something parallel and uncontrollable for Magic. Love even can break it, break the powerful magical curses. Remember Nivellen from the books, remember Graham and Annabelle from the last game. True Love literally can everything in The Witcher. And when love is so strong and uncontrollable you think that someone can fake it?

Technically? Yes it is unnatural.

Does that mean you can't value it, no, but is it natural? Well no more "natural" if you factor in the law of surprise and Magic (and destiny) than Geralt is Ciri's natural daughter.

But from the love breaking magic aspect, why wouldn't Pavetta's love for Ciri (or Calanthe's love for Ciri) break the law of surprise and prevent Destiny having it's way and forcing Ciri into Geralt's care?

Or why didn't True love keep a Werewolf from killing his family or wife?

It isn't always a sure thing. Or maybe the magic that Love has isn't as strong as others depending on the love. In some people's games, They choose Yen, it was. In others, turns out that it wasn't "True Love" (A DWEAM WIVIN A DREAM!) And it was just other magic screwing with them
 
iokhta;n8050470 said:
Thanks :)

To tell you the truth, I think the reason I was so hurt by rejecting her this playthrough was because I feel like the relationship Yen and Geralt have is very similar to the relationship my fiancee and I have. We're both damaged people (who isn't?), and we hurt each other. The love that we have, however, is worth the pain. I couldn't imagine myself with another person.
You're welcome, and I'm glad you feel so strongly about your fiancee. Best of luck to you both.

iokhta;n8050470 said:
I hope you find a Yen of your own.
Thank you, that actually meant a lot more to me than I thought it would... I've my doubts, and I've my reasons for those doubts. It's nice to hear that from a stranger.
 
Corewolf;n8050710 said:
It isn't always a sure thing. Or maybe the magic that Love has isn't as strong as others depending on the love. In some people's games, They choose Yen, it was. In others, turns out that it wasn't "True Love" (A DWEAM WIVIN A DREAM!) And it was just other magic screwing with them

Sure that is beauty of a RPG game - that we can chose romances, paths and endings. But regarding books I wouldn't mix game story into it. Sapkowski wrote Yennefer with flaws for Geralt with flaws - if you wanna think their love story was all fake because of magic well why not, but then the end of the saga is very weird that even after death the magic is still working :D. And I'm also wondering why Sapkowski wrote so many nice romance scenes with Yen/Geralt if it was all fake. It had to be strong Djinn magic then :D Sorry I just see the Djinn thing really ridiculous regarding BOOK lore that's all. And in my opinion explaining the books through the games doesn't make sense.
 
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Well I did have a thought driving home.


Timeline:
Djinn influence

Geralt sleeps with Yen, vanishes, she gets mad, eventually forgives

Yen sleeps with Istredd, Getalt is hurt, Yen runs, Geralt eventually forgives

Lots of relationship stuff in the books. Sleeping with Fringilla, all forgiven

Death/near death. Avalon, Wild hunt, amnesia.

Geralt sleeps all the kinds of around. Yen, non-amnesiac, knows about it. Ignores Geralt for all of 1 and 2.

Beginning of 3. KNOWING he has slept around (particularly with Triss in 2) sends a note with a PM going "I still have the unicorn" (Read. LETS BANG!) Which always struck me as odd considering that she hadn't talked to him at all since his amnesia. So she knows all about his sleeping about and just goes "Hey, remember that thing we had sex on? I still have it *wink*" After, you know, not talking to him or trying to find him (as Geralt points out)

Forgives him for all the infidelity. If you sleep with Keria and the others, forgives all that so long as you DON'T sleep with Triss.

Only opportunity to actually do anything with Yen is if you then free yourselves from the Djinn's influence.

Do THAT and if you sleep with Triss in the course of the game... Yen gets mad... and doesn't forgive.

So.. why forgive all the times before you do the quest "The Last Wish?"

Remove Djinn influence... Cute anger at missteps in relationship with no forgiving

Because Magic is pushing them together and making it easier for her? But if you break the spell she can go "Geralt of Rivia is someone that we have decided doesn't matter to either of us anymore"

Even Triss's interest could be said to be influenced by the Djinn. Her pining for Geralt could have put strain on Yen and Geralt's relationship; and only one of the relationships can survive the breaking of the spell. If you hurt both of them after that, neither can stand you because nothing is encouraging them to forgive beyond normal emotions.

It's a possibility anyway.
 
Gilthoniel;n8050840 said:
And I'm also wondering why Sapkowski wrote so many nice romance scenes with Yen/Geralt if it was all fake.

He did also write in things like Geralt x Fringilla and Geralt x Little Eye. Not saying that the feelings between Yen and Geralt are "fake" just heavily influenced by magic and that they are no more "soul mates" than anyone else is
 
Personally, I found the interactions between Yennefer and Geralt to be some of the best aspects of the books. With regards to the Last Wish---CDPR retconned aspects of the lore such as the White Frost, King Auberon, number of monsters, etc. The reason the developers implemented the quest in to the game was for players' to break off the romance with Yennefer. To my knowledge, book Geralt and Yennefer didn't 'question' if their love was 'fake' or not---it's only an aspect of the game.

I understand it's an RPG--decision making is essential to the game--but I believe there are some choices the 'canon' Geralt wouldn't make such as giving Ciri to Emhyr for coin. Even though Yennefer's character growth wasn't implemented that well in the games (miniscule interaction with Ciri, being angry with Geralt-see Rivia and Thannedd), I found her characterization to be one of the more unique ones. Some of the other romance options seemed to be fawn over Geralt or had their characterizations lifted from Yennefer in the books (rescuing dwarves/mages, confronting Philippa, etc.).
 
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