I'm a horrible person, and I didn't even realize it [SPOILERS]

[Gilthoniel]

Well I did have a thought driving home.


Timeline:
Djinn influence

Geralt sleeps with Yen, vanishes, she gets mad, eventually forgives

Yen sleeps with Istredd, Getalt is hurt, Yen runs, Geralt eventually forgives

Lots of relationship stuff in the books. Sleeping with Fringilla, all forgiven

Death/near death. Avalon, Wild hunt, amnesia.

Geralt sleeps all the kinds of around. Yen, non-amnesiac, knows about it. Ignores Geralt for all of 1 and 2.

Beginning of 3. KNOWING he has slept around (particularly with Triss in 2) sends a note with a PM going "I still have the unicorn" (Read. LETS BANG!) Which always struck me as odd considering that she hadn't talked to him at all since his amnesia. So she knows all about his sleeping about and just goes "Hey, remember that thing we had sex on? I still have it *wink*" After, you know, not talking to him or trying to find him (as Geralt points out)

Forgives him for all the infidelity. If you sleep with Keria and the others, forgives all that so long as you DON'T sleep with Triss.

Only opportunity to actually do anything with Yen is if you then free yourselves from the Djinn's influence.

Do THAT and if you sleep with Triss in the course of the game... Yen gets mad... and doesn't forgive.

So.. why forgive all the times before you do the quest "The Last Wish?"

Remove Djinn influence... Cute anger at missteps in relationship with no forgiving

Because Magic is pushing them together and making it easier for her? But if you break the spell she can go "Geralt of Rivia is someone that we have decided doesn't matter to either of us anymore"

Even Triss's interest could be said to be influenced by the Djinn. Her pining for Geralt could have put strain on Yen and Geralt's relationship; and only one of the relationships can survive the breaking of the spell. If you hurt both of them after that, neither can stand you because nothing is encouraging them to forgive beyond normal emotions.

It's a possibility anyway.

You are mixing game story to the book story. As others said Last Wish quest was written by CDPR for players to break or continue with Yennefer. How is your theory working if players chose Yennefer though? How they are loving each other even without Djinn magic then? How Yennefer still loves Geralt even after he broke her heart in this quest? You said that you are TeamTriss and I kinda understand why you think that Yen/Geralt is heavily influenced by Djinn so you can say that Geralt never really purely loved Yennefer and feel better about your romance choice in the game. Triss in the books isn't so important to Geralt so only way how to feel better about this is diminish Yen/Geralt love story, and saying it was all because of Djinn. I have no other explanation, because as Samiel27 wrote, Sapkowski never really questioned the love of Yen/Geralt, he said many times he wrote difficult Yennefer directly for Geralt so he can grow as character, at the end of the saga both characters got an ending and their very last words in the saga were about their love.

He did also write in things like Geralt x Fringilla and Geralt x Little Eye. Not saying that the feelings between Yen and Geralt are "fake" just heavily influenced by magic and that they are no more "soul mates" than anyone else is

Are you really comparing Fringilla and Essi to Yen/Geralt scenes? Hmm Fringi/Geralt or Lytta/Geralt romantic scenes (Essi scene wasn't even written) weren't poetic at all if you compare them with Yen/Geralt scenes they were written so differently on purpose. But if you didn't notice that reading all of the Witcher saga books it is hard to explain then.

 

[Corewolf]

Are you really comparing Fringilla and Essi to Yen/Geralt scenes? Hmm Fringi/Geralt or Lytta/Geralt romantic scenes (Essi scene wasn't even written) weren't poetic at all if you compare them with Yen/Geralt scenes they were written so differently on purpose. But if you didn't notice that reading all of the Witcher saga books it is hard to explain then.

I remember, and I did notice. Different doesn't necessarily mean "better" or "good" Was it better writing? Yes. Does that make the relationship better? Debatable.

And this isn't about feeling better about my choice or not, it's the question of if Yen is a good person or is actually a good relationship for Geralt or not. (Though honestly, most of his female relationships outside of Ciri are fairly toxic. (Triss Included, she indulges his bullshit WAY too much and has him on a pedestal, which is only marginally better than emotional abuse and cheating)

And a scene being "Poetic" doesn't mean that such a scene is necessarily "good" There are poems about dying in battle and how terrible it is. There are poems about fear and hate and everything else.

Sapkowski can write his story however he likes, but to sit there and say "Geralt and Yen were meant to be and it isn't because of magic or outside influence, just emotional love"... that is what I have an issue with. The idea that they are soulmates or destined for each other, and that this is supposed to be a good thing strikes me as bullshit with the way they act, treat each other and constantly hurt each other. Vitriol does not do a relationship good.


Arguing? Okay. Fighting about stuff and having disagreements, fine, I can see some of the character growth there, but they cheat on each other ALL. THE. TIME.

Growth aside, that kind of treatment in a relationship is fucking rough, and not something that most people just get over and then go on the way they do in the books. And I'm not saying that in the books, Triss is necessarily any better (considering she vamped the hell out of Geralt) But the simple fact that everyone (including Sapkowski) goes "Yen and Geralt are meant to be!" "Total Soulmates!" "They Love each other SO much"

Let's follow that idea then. -> Yen and Geralt are meant to be. Soulmates, Destined.

So being Soulmates is bad and Destiny sucks.

Okay, yeah, they might say they love each other, they might die professing that love, but I can't believe for a second that people who are genuinely happy to be together and genuinely care about each other could do the things each of them did with such a level of ease. Hell, even doing something to hurt someone who is just a friend can hurt, much less hurting someone you view/feel/is your soulmate. That isn't pain you just get over and move on from the way it is portrayed in the books. Their "love" is forced and out of desperation to be accepted, which isn't a good thing.

They end up together. Canon, Okay. But it is stated that they are "meant to be". Well then Destiny is fucking miserable and discounting that [outside] influence, do you really believe two people that act towards each other the way they do early on would CHOOSE to be together and even REACH the point that they did in the later books? Hardly. All that proves is that in the Witcher universe the idea of "Soulmates" isn't something to be happy about. You could be paired with someone that hurts you, makes you miserable or whatever, and have no choice in the matter.

Now let's discount the idea that they are in any way influenced by Magic or Destiny (Which is a form of magic apparently) and that it was entirely choice on their part. They came together through a fuckton of issues and ended up choosing to stay together. This would be in line for Geralt tending towards decisions that make him miserable. (Which he does. He hates being a Witcher but never decides to even try anything else despite being well educated enough to do basically whatever.. Go be an alchemist or herbalist or teach at Oxenfurt. You've done guest lectures there before). So discounting magic forcing them together, the other explanation is that Geralt likes being miserable.

Either they are both mildly sociopathic and unfeeling, there is a Magical reason they are together, Or they just enjoy some level of misery... or the writing is flawed. Human emotions don't work the way they are written.


For those who decided TL/DR
I, for one, as a writer and teacher, take issue with someone trying to say "Oh yeah, something I wrote about that was an important plot point has NO INFLUENCE later just because I said so and didn't bring it up later.". Never thought Yen and Geralt should have ended up as a couple well before the games. That aside, there are a ton of issues with Yen and Geralt's relationship as stated above. Love Sapkowski's writing and world building, hate some of his decisions.

Postscript

For the record, I've loved chasing this conversation back and forth, but Honestly, it made me realize even though it wasn't the Djinn like I thought, Geralt literally did not HAVE a choice in being with Yen... and whether it was the Djinn or Destiny doesn't matter. If he actually had influence and free will over his own actions more than he did, maybe he would have chosen something completely different. But then we wouldn't have had the story at all.

 

[Hart95]

Arguing? Okay. Fighting about stuff and having disagreements, fine, I can see some of the character growth there, but they cheat on each other ALL. THE. TIME.

At any point during their time together neither of them slept with another person - besides Yennefer, that is. That was an intense and complicated story, both in terms of situation and emotion. The ending of the story perfectly reflects why Geralt would forgive Yen after some time.

All of the times that Geralt slept with someone occured during a hiatus between Yen and Geralt.

 

[Gilthoniel]

For the record, I've loved chasing this conversation back and forth, but Honestly, it made me realize even though it wasn't the Djinn like I thought, Geralt literally did not HAVE a choice in being with Yen... and whether it was the Djinn or Destiny doesn't matter. If he actually had influence and free will over his own actions more than he did, maybe he would have chosen something completely different. But then we wouldn't have had the story at all.

Geralt made the Wish in the first place...HE decided to bound his fate to this woman, HE made the CHOICE - nobody forced him to do that. How did you miss that? Elf Erdil understood why he did that, I understand that too...it seems some people forgetting this little detail.

Here are some interesting comments regarding Yennefer and Geralt:

from Witcher - Polish popcultural phenomenon publication:

In a dying universe of mages, Yennefer seems to be the only one who’s saved. She in fact - though at first presented as a typical, cold, calculating, ruthless and arrogant member of the Brotherhood - with the development of the story, undergoes a metamorphosis. Her otherness is signaled, however discreetly, from the beginning, even the style of dress - elegant, but limited to only two colors: black and white. Another sign of the uniqueness of sorceress from Vengerberg, turns out to be her big dream of motherhood - as I have already said, no other magician expressed similar desires, even though the majority of them (as requested Tissaia de Vries in her work The poisoned Source) has been deprived of the ability procreation, which could raise their grief. The rare, among the representatives of the analyzed profession, psychological depth, is also proved in a Shard of Ice short story when Yennefer compares herself to the Ice Queen and regrets that she cannot love. Not without significance is the fact that - despite widespread promiscuity among wizards - after reconciliation with the witcher in Hirundum, lady of Vengerberg remains absolutely faithful to him. Finally, the transformation of Yennefer - her humanization - is consolidated by her, growing against all odds, feeling towards Ciri and Geralt. As you can see, Sapkowski - the creator of Anti - Tale - at the end of the story about the witcher, returns to the constitutive truth of classic fairy tales: love conquers all evil.





comment by DoctorBerghan:

We think of Geralt as being the broken one; the mentally damaged one. He constantly bemoans the fact that he’s a mutant, unfeeling, emotionless, just a mechanical killing machine that society has the right to use up and discard once it has fulfilled its purpose and slain the monster. Throughout many of the stories, Geralt is told that because he’s a Witcher, he either is incapable of feeling emotions, or that he’s not allowed to feel whatever emotions he is capable of. We also think of Yennefer (or Triss, if you prefer) as being the thing that “fixes” him; who teaches him how to love.

The beautiful thing about Geralt and Yennefer’s relationship however, and one of the reasons I prefer it to whatever relationship he might ever have with Triss, is that it isn’t purely one-way. Yennefer doesn’t “fix” Geralt and that’s the end of it; he “fixes” her in an equally meaningful way. For as much as Geralt doesn’t believe he is capable of loving anyone, Yennefer begins the saga equally determined that she is incapable of being loved by anyone. Between being an unwanted baby, abused to the point of physical deformity (Yennefer was not born a hunchback, she became one by being beaten so badly), eventually being abandoned and saved by Tissaia de Vries, and then subsequently being told by her newfound mistress and idol that a sorceress must be aloof, cold, and strong (“Starting now you will never cry. There is nothing more pathetic than a sorceress in tears.”), the Yennefer we meet in the early stories, such as A Shard of Ice, truly believes that she is the Ice Queen the legends in Aedd Gynvael talk about. She believes she is this wanton, chaotic, destructive force of nature who is destined to destroy the lives of anyone she gets involved with, and she believes it because it keeps happening to her. She doesn’t believe she is capable of being loved, and so she feels no remorse for stringing Geralt or Istredd or any other man who claims to love her along and cheating on them because she thinks they are lying to her and to themselves about loving her. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; she doesn’t believe she can be loved, and so she tries to ruin anyone who attempts to love her, thus proving her own point.

A Shard of Ice is where we learn that Yennefer thinks like this, and it makes her all the more tragic of a character. Geralt isn’t the only one with his own mental demons here. Yennefer’s beliefs about herself are equally self-destructive, and it is their eventual union which “fixes” them both. Geralt learns from Yennefer that he is capable of feeling love, and, in turn, Yennefer equally learns from Geralt than she is capable of being loved. Geralt and Yennefer are partners in a way many fictional relationships don’t depict. They are equals, who both learn from one another, plot with and, sometimes, against one another, and both grow together as characters in equally meaningful ways.

People talk about disliking Yennefer in Witcher 3 because she’s too forceful or assertive, usually just simplifying it to calling her “bitchy.” I don’t look at Yennefer that way though. She is an individual with her own agenda and her own ideas of how to achieve what she wants. Unlike Triss, for example, who usually just goes along with whatever Geralt says and meekly waits for the protagonist to tell her what to do, Yennefer is capable of making decisions and getting results on her own. The thing that I like the most about Yennefer as a character is that she is her own person. She isn’t Geralt’s #2, she is Geralt’s partner.​

​

 

[Hart95]

Geralt made the Wish in the first place...HE decided to bound his fate to this woman, HE made the CHOICE - nobody forced him to do that. How did you miss that? Elf Erdil understood why he did that, I understand that too...it seems some people forgetting this little detail.

Here are some interesting comments regarding Yennefer and Geralt:

from Witcher - Polish popcultural phenomenon publication:

In a dying universe of mages, Yennefer seems to be the only one who’s saved. She in fact - though at first presented as a typical, cold, calculating, ruthless and arrogant member of the Brotherhood - with the development of the story, undergoes a metamorphosis. Her otherness is signaled, however discreetly, from the beginning, even the style of dress - elegant, but limited to only two colors: black and white. Another sign of the uniqueness of sorceress from Vengerberg, turns out to be her big dream of motherhood - as I have already said, no other magician expressed similar desires, even though the majority of them (as requested Tissaia de Vries in her work The poisoned Source) has been deprived of the ability procreation, which could raise their grief. The rare, among the representatives of the analyzed profession, psychological depth, is also proved in a Shard of Ice short story when Yennefer compares herself to the Ice Queen and regrets that she cannot love. Not without significance is the fact that - despite widespread promiscuity among wizards - after reconciliation with the witcher in Hirundum, lady of Vengerberg remains absolutely faithful to him. Finally, the transformation of Yennefer - her humanization - is consolidated by her, growing against all odds, feeling towards Ciri and Geralt. As you can see, Sapkowski - the creator of Anti - Tale - at the end of the story about the witcher, returns to the constitutive truth of classic fairy tales: love conquers all evil.





comment by DoctorBerghan:

We think of Geralt as being the broken one; the mentally damaged one. He constantly bemoans the fact that he’s a mutant, unfeeling, emotionless, just a mechanical killing machine that society has the right to use up and discard once it has fulfilled its purpose and slain the monster. Throughout many of the stories, Geralt is told that because he’s a Witcher, he either is incapable of feeling emotions, or that he’s not allowed to feel whatever emotions he is capable of. We also think of Yennefer (or Triss, if you prefer) as being the thing that “fixes” him; who teaches him how to love.

The beautiful thing about Geralt and Yennefer’s relationship however, and one of the reasons I prefer it to whatever relationship he might ever have with Triss, is that it isn’t purely one-way. Yennefer doesn’t “fix” Geralt and that’s the end of it; he “fixes” her in an equally meaningful way. For as much as Geralt doesn’t believe he is capable of loving anyone, Yennefer begins the saga equally determined that she is incapable of being loved by anyone. Between being an unwanted baby, abused to the point of physical deformity (Yennefer was not born a hunchback, she became one by being beaten so badly), eventually being abandoned and saved by Tissaia de Vries, and then subsequently being told by her newfound mistress and idol that a sorceress must be aloof, cold, and strong (“Starting now you will never cry. There is nothing more pathetic than a sorceress in tears.”), the Yennefer we meet in the early stories, such as A Shard of Ice, truly believes that she is the Ice Queen the legends in Aedd Gynvael talk about. She believes she is this wanton, chaotic, destructive force of nature who is destined to destroy the lives of anyone she gets involved with, and she believes it because it keeps happening to her. She doesn’t believe she is capable of being loved, and so she feels no remorse for stringing Geralt or Istredd or any other man who claims to love her along and cheating on them because she thinks they are lying to her and to themselves about loving her. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; she doesn’t believe she can be loved, and so she tries to ruin anyone who attempts to love her, thus proving her own point.

A Shard of Ice is where we learn that Yennefer thinks like this, and it makes her all the more tragic of a character. Geralt isn’t the only one with his own mental demons here. Yennefer’s beliefs about herself are equally self-destructive, and it is their eventual union which “fixes” them both. Geralt learns from Yennefer that he is capable of feeling love, and, in turn, Yennefer equally learns from Geralt than she is capable of being loved. Geralt and Yennefer are partners in a way many fictional relationships don’t depict. They are equals, who both learn from one another, plot with and, sometimes, against one another, and both grow together as characters in equally meaningful ways.

People talk about disliking Yennefer in Witcher 3 because she’s too forceful or assertive, usually just simplifying it to calling her “bitchy.” I don’t look at Yennefer that way though. She is an individual with her own agenda and her own ideas of how to achieve what she wants. Unlike Triss, for example, who usually just goes along with whatever Geralt says and meekly waits for the protagonist to tell her what to do, Yennefer is capable of making decisions and getting results on her own. The thing that I like the most about Yennefer as a character is that she is her own person. She isn’t Geralt’s #2, she is Geralt’s partner.​

​

Thank you for that post, it was a very nice read and perfectly explained what I could not put into words.

 

[sv3672]

The reason the developers implemented the quest in to the game was for players' to break off the romance with Yennefer. To my knowledge, book Geralt and Yennefer didn't 'question' if their love was 'fake' or not---it's only an aspect of the game.

They were never in the same situation before. The games are not just a retelling of the same story from the books, and, to be honest, I find the belittling attitude that it is only some gimmick that was included as a checklist feature to make the game look more like an RPG, and the same towards "some of the other romance options", to be rather saddening. Like in the reply to the post quoted just below, I think the game series really needs to start over with a clean slate and completely new main characters, so that the story and relationships can be written with more freedom not being under so much pressure from the expectations of what everything should be like based on the novels.

But the simple fact that everyone (including Sapkowski) goes "Yen and Geralt are meant to be!" "Total Soulmates!" "They Love each other SO much"

Let's follow that idea then. -> Yen and Geralt are meant to be. Soulmates, Destined.

While I do not share that view myself, I have to admit that its prevalence is one of the major reasons why I personally do not want to see more games in the future where Geralt, Ciri or Yennefer appear as main characters, as explained above.

Geralt made the Wish in the first place...HE decided to bound his fate to this woman, HE made the CHOICE - nobody forced him to do that. How did you miss that? Elf Erdil understood why he did that, I understand that too...it seems some people forgetting this little detail.

Not that I necessarily believe the djinn theory, but I think what Corewolf meant is that he did not have a choice already when making the wish, because it was "destiny" that he had to make the wish in the first place.

However, if we assume that the wish itself was made with free will and that the theory is true, then he did not have choice until breaking the wish. After many years, he may or may not want to make the same choice again. Also, I do not see the fact that Yennefer still loves Geralt if rejected in this quest as evidence that her feelings were not initially affected by the wish - only an alternate timeline where the wish did not happen at all would give a real answer.

In any case, as already noted, I am skeptical regarding the djinn theory, but also that Geralt ending up with Yennefer is some kind of inevitable destiny. At least it never happened in my games. It may be worth noting the less discussed third path in this quest, to simply refuse to help with capturing the djinn. This leads to the same outcome as completing the quest and saying that the "magic" is gone, which implies that the relationship can break without any involvement of the djinn. It also feels like a more natural break up path that is more consistent with the previous content in the game.

 

[Guest 3847602]

They were never in the same situation before. The games are not just a retelling of the same story from the books, and, to be honest, I find the belittling attitude that it is only some gimmick that was included as a checklist feature to make the game look more like an RPG, and the same towards "some of the other romance options", to be rather saddening. Like in the reply to the post quoted just below,

As explained already, the authenticity of their feelings was never questioned in any book, not even once. That's whole 7 books, from cover to cover. Plenty of time and situations to be doubtful, yet it simply never came up until The Last Wish (quest). That quest, as we all know, serves as Yennefer romance lock-in mechanism in The Witcher 3. A game.
So we have something that was never up for debate in the original work suddenly becoming "open for interpretation" at the moment when we are about to chose LI in the role-playing game. Sadly or not, it does have the ingredients of "gamey gimmick".

 

[Corewolf]

classic fairy tales: love conquers all evil.

Dunno about "Classic" fairy tales showing that. Brothers Grimm writings are the epitome of classic and they aren't really about "love conquers all" more like "There is no happy ever after". Modern fairy tales have that message though.

Granted they die... so....

Geralt made the Wish in the first place...HE decided to bound his fate to this woman, HE made the CHOICE - nobody forced him to do that. How did you miss that? Elf Erdil understood why he did that, I understand that too...it seems some people forgetting this little detail.

HE made that choice... I notice it isn't THEY made that choice. Now you are bringing the idea of Magic and fate-binding into it, which again is what I take issue with

So if ONE individual chooses to say... Roofie another and then sleep with them under the influence of that, it's okay because HE chose to make that person more pliable to their desires? Or getting someone so inebriated till they go "Yes! Let's Totally sleep together!" and if they happen to wake up the next morning, break up, then get back together later and work things out, that is okay and a good foundation for a relationship?! Somehow I doubt anyone here would see that as okay.

By that statement Yen was FORCED, willingly or not, to have her fate bound to his.

This is why I take issue with Sapkowski going "Well I didn't mention it in any of my other books" Fine. The inception of their relationship is still tainted by what is essentially a magick that takes away Yennifer's choice in the matter. MAGIC, not choice made her mind up for her. Yes she goes "I heard your wish" right after, and she KNOWS what he said, doesn't mean she has the force of free will to say "Yeah no" anymore than someone with altered perceptions might. The author can go and say "Yeah, the wish didn't do anything, had no effect" but that breaks his own system of magic. It breaks the suspension of disbelief.

I am not saying that their relationship did not have growth, I am not debating the end result or the character interpretations of growth. Yes from one perspective those are there, at this point I am saying it is predicated on lack of choice or free will on at least ONE of their parts... if not both via said magic.

 

[sv3672]

As explained already, the authenticity of their feelings was never questioned in any book, not even once. It simply never came up until The Last Wish (quest). That quest, as we all know, serves as Yennefer romance lock-in mechanism in The Witcher 3.

Just because something was not questioned in the books, it does not mean it can never be questioned in their (not canon to the originals and made by different authors) sequels. Anyway, the game never really says that it was all the djinn, it is just something that is used on forums to bash the other romance (both ways). As I already posted above, refusing the quest also means no Yennefer romance, even though nothing about the wish is changed at all. It is not unrealistic that their reunion does not work out after being separated for years and Geralt sleeping with Yennefer's friend for a year (amnesia or not), then he does not help in personal matters when asked to, and finally she is reminded of all of it in Kaer Morhen. Completing the quest makes it possible for the witcher to tell if he really still feels the same as before, but it does not have to literally mean that it was all magic.

As far as I understand it, the wish only means that their fates are bound together, that is, if one of them dies then the other one does, too. That is even what happens at the end of the books' saga in Rivia.

Sadly or not, it does have the ingredients of "gamey gimmick".

I am not the one insisting on that interpretation. Can you give some links to interviews where it is officially confirmed that the "everything was magic" version is really what was meant and that it was invented only for the purpose of implementing a romance choice?

 

[Corewolf]

Not that I necessarily believe the djinn theory, but I think what Corewolf meant is that he did not have a choice already when making the wish, because it was "destiny" that he had to make the wish in the first place.

This, This exactly. If we take the idea that Geralt "had" to do things like take in Ciri and such, why not this choice too then. Yen would be "needed" by destiny for everything to happen with Ciri the way it did; then basically the entire story is fated to happen the way it did whether any of them wanted it to or not BECAUSE of destiny.

Which defeats the whole idea of "True Love"

True or not, it happened because it needed to for whatever destiny said needed to happen.

QUOTE=sv3672;n8083240]Originally posted by Corewolf View Post But the simple fact that everyone (including Sapkowski) goes "Yen and Geralt are meant to be!" "Total Soulmates!" "They Love each other SO much"
Let's follow that idea then. -> Yen and Geralt are meant to be. Soulmates, Destined. While I do not share that view myself, I have to admit that its prevalence is one of the major reasons why I personally do not want to see more games in the future where Geralt, Ciri or Yennefer appear as main characters, as explained above.[/QUOTE]

And yeah, I don't share the destiny idea either, just pointing out that people who use that as an argument for why their relationship is good or the is kinda... odd? Flawed? I don't know.

Biggest issue is that (even though Sapkowski says it doesn't matter because reasons). The Djinn wish/destiny/whatever fate really makes it feel like actual choice was removed from both characters. And going "It is that way because I say it is and this thing that brought them together in the first place doesn't matter cause I said so, is very poorly done Deus Ex Machina.

 

[Corewolf]

As explained already, the authenticity of their feelings was never questioned in any book, not even once.

Except, you know, in a Shard of Ice where both Yen and Geralt question their ability to even love at all... and all the times that Geralt says that he is a mutant with no emotions, just the shadow of emotions... and the time that Istredd said to Geralt "As a Witcher, you don't even HAVE real emotions"

But the "Authenticity" came into question the minute Geralt made that wish. That she went from basically dismissive of him, to enamored enough to have sex with him in the wreckage of a house, is not natural. SOMETHING was influencing her at that moment, and would have continued to do so.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Just because something was not questioned in the books, it does not mean it can never be questioned in their (not canon to the originals and made by different authors) sequels. Anyway, the game never really says that it was all the djinn, it is just something that is used on forums to bash the other romance (both ways). As I already posted above, refusing the quest also means no Yennefer romance, even though nothing about the wish is changed at all. It is not unrealistic that their reunion does not work out after being separated for years and Geralt sleeping with Yennefer's friend for a year (amnesia or not), then he does not help in personal matters when asked to, and finally she is reminded of all of it in Kaer Morhen. Completing the quest makes it possible for the witcher to tell if he really still feels the same as before, but it does not have to literally mean that it was all magic.

As far as I understand it, the wish only means that their fates are bound together, that is, if one of them dies then the other one does, too. That is even what happens at the end of the books' saga in Rivia.



I am not the one insisting on that interpretation. Can you give some links to interviews where it is officially confirmed that the "everything was magic" version is really what was meant and that it was invented only for the purpose of implementing a romance choice?

Just wanted to point out that "Magic is gone" is ultimately an option in a video game given for the sake of having a say in your character's love life. The books were simply not written with this dilemma in mind, so there's nothing derogatory about calling a game mechanic - game mechanic. Much like break-up with Triss between TW2 and 3 was another example of it, albeit for a different purpose.

 

[Guest 3847602]

But the "Authenticity" came into question the minute Geralt made that wish. That she went from basically dismissive of him, to enamored enough to have sex with him in the wreckage of a house, is not natural. SOMETHING was influencing her at that moment, and would have continued to do so.

It's almost as if Geralt showed affection and generosity to Yennefer and saved her from certain death despite everything she did to him recently.

 

[Corewolf]

It's almost as if Geralt saved her life after everything she did to him.

It isn't a debate about "if she felt for him"

It's a debate on if there was an outside force that acted upon them to prompt that love, or if it was genuine love.

Oh, by the way

I have a hard time to understand how anyone can say that Yen/Geralt love was fake or because of Djinn after reading all eight books of Witcher saga way before any games were released - this clearly was a RPG game tool how to break it with Yennefer invented by CDPR - before games I really didn't see any discussion regarding this. Before games there also was no TeamTriss - more like TeamFringilla.

Where did you get that quote for the picture? I wanna read the interview.

I thought about this more, considering I've read Sapkowski's interviews and never did see him say that.

This was not said by Sapkowski. Ever.

http://mistress-light.tumblr.com/pos...-constant-lore

Was written there.

"I just wanted to begin with Geralt’s last wish. The wish Geralt uttered isn’t in any way a curse or whatever people claim it to be because as we all know (hopefully) a Djinn can’t make people fall in love with each other (looks at the movie Aladdin). Geralt’s wish was for Yennefer to be bound by him, he did that to ensure she wouldn’t die because of the Djinn. (Djinn’s are know to twist wishes etc so he had to be real careful) Geralt decided to bind his fate with Yennefer and save her life in the process. Geralt wanted that. Geralt expressed that wish. Geralt loved Yen even before expressing that wish. Some people seriously think the the love and relationship between them is fake or unnatural and based solely on some djinn’s spell which had nothing to do with it. Andrej Sapkowksi didn’t even mention it in his other books."

Then reposted here

http://yennefer-fan.tumblr.com/post/...ant-lore/


*Slow Clap*

And for the record. Nowhere in Arabian Nights does it say Djinn can't make people fall in love. In the books, Aladdin got the lamp before meeting the princess and they fell in love AFTER he was rich. Disney changed that a bit for story purposes and threw in the "no love thing", mainly so Jafar can't pull his trick at the end.

 

[Guest 3847602]

It's a debate on if there was an outside force that acted upon them to prompt that love, or if it was genuine love.

OK, let's assume his wish was indeed about love. Apparently, Geralt (for some reason) wishes to love a woman he doesn't love yet and wants her to love him (for some reason). How does that prevents Djinn from killing her 1 second after the wish was granted?

 

[Corewolf]

OK, let's assume his wish was indeed about love. Apparently, Geralt (for some reason) wishes to love a woman he doesn't love yet and wants her to love him (for some reason). How does that prevents Djinn from killing her 1 second after the wish was granted?

Because it is more amusing for the Djinn to make sure they are miserable together or suffer for an extended period of time?

I think more specifically Geralt makes a wish to bind the sorceress to him, or some such so the Djinn won't kill her, and the Djinn decides to take these two messed up people who don't deal well with love and MAKE them love each other (or more make HER want/love him since he was already infatuated) because that is what Djinn do in a lot of literature, twist wishes to make people miserable.

What wish do you think he made then? What else could have kept the Djinn from killing her? "I wish she would not be killed by the Djinn" Why wouldn't it then turn around and kill him after?

 

[Gilthoniel]

But the "Authenticity" came into question the minute Geralt made that wish. That she went from basically dismissive of him, to enamored enough to have sex with him in the wreckage of a house, is not natural. SOMETHING was influencing her at that moment, and would have continued to do so.

Yen would be "needed" by destiny for everything to happen with Ciri the way it did; then basically the entire story is fated to happen the way it did whether any of them wanted it to or not BECAUSE of destiny. Which defeats the whole idea of "True Love"

True or not, it happened because it needed to for whatever destiny said needed to happen.

We know little about love. Love is like a pear. A pear is sweet and has a distinct shape. Try to define the shape of a pear.
Dandelion, Half a Century of Poetry

Never liked Yen and all her attitude during 3... And reading shit like "A Shard of Ice"... well the ONLY reason a guy would put up with that crap (Or do the running off Geralt did in the first place) would be if the love was magically induced by a Djinn to be hot and cold... which isn't something I'd like.

So being able to go "Nope, was totally just the Djinn" was actually very satisfying to me

#TeamTriss.

As I and ooodrin said before I think your comments regarding book lore are heavily influenced by the games and your ingame romance choice.

I thought about this more, considering I've read Sapkowski's interviews and never did see him say that.

This was not said by Sapkowski. Ever.

http://mistress-light.tumblr.com/pos...-constant-lore

Was written there.

"I just wanted to begin with Geralt’s last wish. The wish Geralt uttered isn’t in any way a curse or whatever people claim it to be because as we all know (hopefully) a Djinn can’t make people fall in love with each other (looks at the movie Aladdin). Geralt’s wish was for Yennefer to be bound by him, he did that to ensure she wouldn’t die because of the Djinn. (Djinn’s are know to twist wishes etc so he had to be real careful) Geralt decided to bind his fate with Yennefer and save her life in the process. Geralt wanted that. Geralt expressed that wish. Geralt loved Yen even before expressing that wish. Some people seriously think the the love and relationship between them is fake or unnatural and based solely on some djinn’s spell which had nothing to do with it. Andrej Sapkowksi didn’t even mention it in his other books."

Then reposted here

http://yennefer-fan.tumblr.com/post/...ant-lore/


*Slow Clap*

Sigh that fan mistress-light (also member on this forum) used that meme text into her post. I've NEVER SAID that that the meme is quote from Sapkowski - I think this meme was created in the horrible era of this forum back in 2015 were some similar fans were bombarding this forum with their lore knowledge.

Anyway THIS IS what Sapkowski said:

The short story The Last Wish (Ostatnie życzenie) is a long metaphor about being very careful what you wish for. The way to reach our desires at all costs can be full of dangerous Djinns, meaning unscrupulousness. Here we meet for the first time Yennefer of Vengerberg, who can also be a very dangerous sorceress. Love is born between the two but don’t you think it’s really too dangerous for Geralt to keep craving for a woman we find out to be not that reliable?

Ha! That’s what makes the story interesting, don’t you think? Being a huge fantasy reader, sometimes I find boring or disgusting the stories where the hero can have sex with any woman, because those women can’t wait to have sex with him. In those stories women are the hero’s prize, the warrior’s reward, and as such they have nothing to say, they can only moan and faint in the hero’s strong arms.

I am convinced that only with contact with the other sex - wether it is cause of attraction, care, confrontation or opposition - a hero can fully grow. When I created Yennefer’s character I wanted Geralt to fully grow, but then I decided to make things complicated. I created a female character who refuses to be a fantasy stereotype. To please the reader.​

And for the record. Nowhere in Arabian Nights does it say Djinn can't make people fall in love. In the books, Aladdin got the lamp before meeting the princess and they fell in love AFTER he was rich. Disney changed that a bit for story purposes and threw in the "no love thing", mainly so Jafar can't pull his trick at the end.

lol ok really great evidence thanks

 

[Guest 3847602]

What wish do you think he made then? What else could have kept the Djinn from killing her? "I wish she would not be killed by the Djinn" Why wouldn't it then turn around and kill him after?

It was already answered before Geralt even uttered his wish:

“But he's…” he groaned suddenly, “still got one wish in reserve! He could save both her and himself! Mr. Krepp!”
“It's not that simple,” the priest pondered. “But if…If he expressed the right wish…If he somehow tied his fate to the fate…No, I don't think it would occur to him. And it's probably better that it doesn't.”

 

[Corewolf]

Sigh that fan mistress-light (also member on this forum) used that meme text into her post. I've NEVER SAID that that the meme is quote from Sapkowski

No, you just used a meme that implied it was without any further connotation, then predicated the argument that Yen and Geralt were meant to be based on that statement.

I have a hard time to understand how anyone can say that Yen/Geralt love was fake or because of Djinn after reading all eight books of Witcher saga way before any games were released - this clearly was a RPG game tool how to break it with Yennefer invented by CDPR - before games I really didn't see any discussion regarding this.

But again, this isn't about Book Canon, this is about whether said love is "real" or "artifically induced through magic and therefore able to be removed through removal of said magic"

I never said that the love was "fake" I said that the love was caused, at least to some degree by the influence of magic. Growth can mean that you realize you don't feel about someone the way you thought you did.


Hell,when I first read the books well before playing the games I discussed the idea that their continuing love was only because of the Djinn.

Ha! That’s what makes the story interesting, don’t you think? Being a huge fantasy reader, sometimes I find boring or disgusting the stories where the hero can have sex with any woman, because those women can’t wait to have sex with him. In those stories women are the hero’s prize, the warrior’s reward, and as such they have nothing to say, they can only moan and faint in the hero’s strong arms.
I am convinced that only with contact with the other sex - wether it is cause of attraction, care, confrontation or opposition - a hero can fully grow. When I created Yennefer’s character I wanted Geralt to fully grow, but then I decided to make things complicated. I created a female character who refuses to be a fantasy stereotype. To please the reader.

And this says that the Djinn's wish has no effect where? All it says is that he wrote Yennifer as a character that would let Geralt grow. Which isn't what is at debate here. Love can make a character grow, sure. So can Hate, or Apathy.

The question is whether her love for Geralt was genuine. Not if said love made him grow or not or if they were "supposed" to be together in the book.

Said love could be entirely magical and still allow Geralt to grow.

But simple fact. No Djinn, Yen and Geralt would never have met. No third wish for binding destiny, love, whatever he said; Yen would have likely not STAYED with Geralt and vice versa.

Thus this argument that "No, the quest in TW3 is totally poor writing/makes no sense" is kinda not really a legitimate argument. Sapkowski said he wanted the characters to grow because of each other. Growth can include leaving the proverbial nest.

Because nowhere in that quotation does Sapkowski say he made them for each other, just "I am convinced that only with contact with the other sex - whether it is cause of attraction, care, confrontation or opposition - a hero can fully grow. When I created Yennefer’s character I wanted Geralt to fully grow, but then I decided to make things complicated."

Yet leaving someone because of your own feelings can't be called growth?

Fuck, it would show Geralt "grew" if he just didn't romance ANY of them.

 

[Corewolf]

And for the record. Nowhere in Arabian Nights does it say Djinn can't make people fall in love. In the books, Aladdin got the lamp before meeting the princess and they fell in love AFTER he was rich. Disney changed that a bit for story purposes and threw in the "no love thing", mainly so Jafar can't pull his trick at the end.

lol ok really great evidence thanks

Better than stating something was said by an individual when they never said it.

There's a rule in most laws that says if something is not expressly forbidden, then it is not out of the question. Dozens upon dozens of fairy tales talk about love potions, charms, magically induced ardor. So why is it suddenly impossible here because of ONE Disney movie? Hell, not 20 pages before the wish, Yen flat out magically Vamps Geralt and makes him feel beholden to her, emotionally subservient, has him beat the shit out of other people for her, and flat out says "I'd make you lick things if I was in the mood."

Yeah, but a Djinn (which is basically supposed to be more powerful than Yen's magic on its own) can't make someone love someone else? ... Yeah no, sorry. Djinn could induce those emotions easily enough. Even Dandelion tried to wish for a woman to fall for his charms (and had he been holding the seal, might have gotten his wish, considering Geralt's "exorcism" wish)