Feedback: This game REQUIRES a better tutorial.

[squanto]

Feedback: This game REQUIRES a better tutorial.

This game seems like it could be cool but I have no idea how to play it. I have clicked through the opening tutorial and clicked the tutorial button at the main screen (thinking it would be different and more helpful), but I have yet to find a tutorial that shows me HOW to play the game. The opening tutorial was all fine and great at explaining what everything means and I thought, "Well cool, I'll probably be able to figure everything out after reading all of this. I'll just hop in a game," but I then spent pretty much the entire game asking questions about what i was supposed to do.

I think a good solution to this problem would be to place users who have just installed the game into an optional practice game with AI, where the game some-what holds your hand through a game and explains things. That way people wouldn't have to deal with new players joining games and then spending forever trying to figure out things.

 

[Lexor]

Its beta, full version will have better tutorial.

 

[simplemindead]

I don't think any new player will fully grasp the game without simply jumping in. I was stumbling around too and had to ask questions. I presume they'll have a proper tutorial that shows you the ropes through a practice game with the released game. For now, hopefully more experienced players can help out the newer ones and give them some leniency. I was fresh off the boat just two days ago and I definitely appreciated the players that answered my questions and didn't rush me during my turns.

 

[Lexor]

Well, even more advanced players still can have problems with game in its current form, as there are no detailed manual and they need to be lucky to get an answer for some more detailed questions.

 

[VassagoPT]

I logged in to place my feedback but since my experience is pretty much the same as the OP no need to open a new thread.
After several attempts to get into a game when I finnaly managed to get in I spent the whole game trying to figure out things by performing each action to see what it did and trying to understand what other players were doing.
Despite my efforts all I could grasp was the sidequest objectives because they were really obvious, like move to X place or get 2 blue magnifying lenses. After a couple turns at the main quest location, where I was supposed to fight something, I got no fight options so I asked on the chat what I was doing wrong. It seams I needed 2 swords which were obtained from a 4to1 ration of red lenses. Guess what? I had only 2 red lenses when I needed 8 ...and I still have no idea how I would do the trade if I had them. At least now I'm aware of that important, yet hidden, character information sheet.
If you want people to spend time testing your game at least give us the tools to do so. This is video boardgame and although a video tutorial is mandatory for release I think we can live without it for now as long as a normal boardgame manual is provided.

 

[011284mm]

I got lucky with the game and everyone I was playing with dropped out allowing me to take my time to read and take in everything. After an hour or so I felt really confident with the game.
So just a small solo portion with three towns and a quest would be a good idea for a beginners guide before jumping in with others.

 

[Quinch]

As an interim solution, I would propose this - the game developers play and record a "typical" game, but with running commentary of each action taken, why it was taken, and so on. While obviously not interactive, it would provide a much more thorough explanation of game mechanics than what is so far little more than a dissection diagram.

 

[trommelmeister]

I also would like to emphasize that a tutorial or manual is necessary. This is especially true because at the moment you can only play the game online with a real human as an opponent. Since the other player seems to have to wait all the time while I am trying to get my head around the game, I feel stressed because I don't want to bore the other person. Come one, REDs, you ask us to do us a favor and beta-test your upcoming game for free, but don't provide useful information to us. These tutorial screens at the beginning of the game helped a little bit, but I am still left here with many question marks floating above my head. From what I have seen so far, the game really seems to have potentials, but without a way to get to learn it without stress, I will not continue the beta-test. Or as an alternative, the option to play it single-player against an AI would be also helpful because then I would have all the time in world to become used to the game.

 

[rnrbabylon2186]

And interactive tutorial would be better, even for the beta. If we are supposed to give feedback to the devs, it would be better for us to get confortable with the rules of the game at the begining so we can focus on other things. Also, testing a tutorial would be good before the release.

 

[cobayo]

better tutorial

that's all i need right now.

however i just spent a good 2 hours game with a couple of really fun players who were able to guide me a bit, while they themselves were learning as well.

an interactive tutorial would be much needed.

 

[Pinball]

Personally, I think it would help a lot of the CDPR devs could create a video explaining how the game works with maybe a couple playthroughs so we can get an idea of how to play. It's hard to find people to play against because it seems most people have already lost interest. Something needs to be done now, not later, or else it will be shipped full of bugs.

 

[danims]

At first I always thought the tutorial was too generic and not very helpful (misses some important explanation), but after playing several games and asking some doubts to other players you get to understand the game perfectly, which is actually pretty simple...
My recommendation is that you read the tutorial, and then keep playing until you get used to the game, and then check the tutorial again, and you will understand it much better.

At first I also thought "wow, the game is too complex, I need a complete step-by-step tutorial!", but not at all.

 

[Black__Adder]

Having a single-quest tutorial would be imo fine, as that's basically how I've learnt the game myself - the current tutorial did literally nothing for me, but I was able to learn pretty much okay during my first playthrough - if there were mouse-over hints and help texts, then it would be even better.

 

[Rafal_Jaki]

Tooltips are coming as an update most likely this week - the new tutorial is planed a little later.

 

[Lieste]

I got pounded in my first game, though I'd figure out what I should be doing by mid way through, it was rather too late. (Playing as Dandelion, vs Triss (Geralt dropped turn 1/2)).

My second play I had it figured out, and got off to a much more solid start, ending 3:1 and 58:22. (Geralt vs Triss (Dandelion dropped turn 1/2))

I'd say that the tutorial is inadequate to teach the game play before actually playing, but it is sufficient to learn *how* to play, if not quite how to master playing during the first playthrough.

It would be useful to be able to peruse your own deck during the opponent turn(s). Which can otherwise drag a bit (and then your pondering drags out your own turn). In a physical game we could be planning our own turn while our opponents are active.

 

[simplemindead]

They're working on it so that players will have more access to information and be able to view their own cards during an opponent's turn.

 

[Kik4s]

Well how about a "GM Mode" - in a private game, the Host can, before the game actually begins, draw on the map, show examples of cards, monsters and other stuff to explain new players how to play the game. The host could also get voice chat, while others write questions and other things in the text chat so it won't just end in everyone talking over eachother.
Also explain better when exactly does the game end and what triggers it, cause that information is really well hidden.

 

[Lieste]

It didn't seem hidden to me:
Game ends at the end of the turn when the first player has completed 1, 3, 5 (according to chosen game mode) main quests.

The players who have completed the full number of quests (which could be all of them if player 1 completes only marginally ahead of the other 2) then compare current VP to determine ranking.

This seemed to me to even be in the tutorial ~ certainly wasn't a surprise when the first game ended, or that I was fairly far behind at that point...

I'm a little hazier about ranking in lower tiers (i.e. whether VP take precedence over Quests or vice versa) as I've not ever had more than 2 people still in-game at the end (around half and half, just me, or me and one other)...) and this makes the rule 'win by quests' or 'win by VP with full quests' the only thing I've seen.

 

[Kik4s]

It didn't seem hidden to me:
Game ends at the end of the turn when the first player has completed 1, 3, 5 (according to chosen game mode) main quests.

The players who have completed the full number of quests (which could be all of them if player 1 completes only marginally ahead of the other 2) then compare current VP to determine ranking.

This seemed to me to even be in the tutorial ~ certainly wasn't a surprise when the first game ended, or that I was fairly far behind at that point...

This certainly isn't explained as thoroughly in the tutorial, and it should. The only thing that the tutorial says is "The game is played over a series of turns. The Player who completes the chosen number of quests with most VP, wins!".
Stating the condition for ending the game and who wins is the most important part of every tutorial IMO, because once you state that, people reading further will think "okay, how can I use THIS to fullfil the victory condition and win?".
Otherwise the game is pretty fine if you played a few board games before, but that part is really confusing.

 

[simplemindead]

Winning is currently decided firstly by VP. If you complete the quest goal first but have less VP, you won't be first; whoever has the most VP will take first place. If two or more players have the same VP, rank order is decided by quest goal completion order—this places further importance on who goes first, second, etc, than just getting to pick your character.