Oversexualizaton in Cyberpunk

[username_3642268]

I hope we get a lot of oversexualized females - some of the best games were full of them. Take Planescape Torment for instance - all the girls were wearing scanty clothes, and Sigil was full of the whores. Result = best RPG ever.

Both Witchers were like this as well. Result = probably best RPGs since PS:T. Yea, it doesn't have to be a reason for success, but like Mordin Solus said - small pictures makes a bigger picture.

 

[kaytlin]

At the same time again it is funny how some people are offended by the products that are aimed mostly to male audience. Check most of the fantasy books. How many female main characters do u see? But let's look on the Twilight Saga that is loved by women all over the world. How men are presented there? One teenage girl to choose between vampire and werewolf that are both in love with her - LOL. Do we care about how women imagine the ideal men should be like and how they are portrayed - no we don't.

In other words - when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Because noone will change the Rome for 3% of the people that do not like it.

So what are you saying? That I shouldn't play or comment on any video games because they are all supposed to be for a straight male audience only? Too bad.

 

[blarty]

The problem is, as batboy said, if you have no explicit context to go on, all you're left with supposition, and often the external voices that shout loud enough don't have a lot of background knowledge to make a good guess at the context and instead they're all too quick to apply Occam's Razor and that's when you end up at the 'sex sells' conclusion.

 

[netweaver]

Well said Edger. While I won't refute the increase to interest that the sex factor produces, it really goes beyond that.

In some ways, it's like Michelangelo's David. If you strip away all of the context, don't look at the details, all of the belief that went into it, all of the quality and effort, you're left with, by definition, the statue of a naked man standing.

See, here's the thing. If you paid attention to the entire teaser, instead of thinking 'boobies', you get a rather great deal of information fed to you. Quite to the opposite of thinking that they could have chosen another scene, I believe that there were precious few choices that would reflect as well on the nature and themes of the Cyberpunk world.

 

[arbas.372]

So only 3% of players are female? May I see the source for that please? Also, how about guys who'd like to see a dystopian future that takes them out of their comfort zone and shows men being exploited as much as women? How many percent of all the players will that be? Also, are you suggesting that CDPR completely exclude the female and homosexual audience and only make games for heterosexual men?

Well if you would read my posts before - ~3% is the number of people that disliked the trailer so far. My girlfriend saw it and she loved it although she is not a gamer nor genre fan. And I think you completely miss the point. The women will always seduce the men with their looks. Of course there are some people that don't like that. But it does not change anything.

So I am sure that there will be woman and gay that will play the game and love it. At the same time I guess there were some people that did not play witcher because he was white heterosexual male and u could not change that. But again this was the character based on books.

P.S. When I go to Rome I can act the tourist, go clubbing, visit gay bars, check out a heavy metal concert or see an opera. There is actually quite a bit of diversity and choice in our world - amazing I know.

Lol - so go to Rome and try to change Itallians Good luck

 

[dymond]

Wait, wait, wait!
Out of curiosity I was skimming through other sites and the comments about skimpy and boobs preveil. Why? How do you change the POV of the audiences? Sex for the point of sex... thats the thing, sex is cheap and stripped of reverence. Meat rubbing agains meat for little of earthly pleasure... nothing more. The decadence. How do you show that? Is there a way to escape the trap?
How do you acquire a mindset to change perspective? By what means I ask, can future marketing achive this goal?

I think even attempting such would be a complete waste of time. remember first Mass Effect and the outrage it got for that horrible horrible sex scene, while in reality it was a really touching and tasteful way of showing how two different people respect each other enough to care about each other's sexual and emotional well being.

No special treatment should be given to sexuality, really. There will always be people who will rage over it and those are probably the same people that won't see what the game is truly about. Sex has a number of different roles in our society. Recreational, procreational and emotional, and all are equally important. I see nothing wrong with sex(uality) in the game "just because", because that is part of human nature and to trying imply otherwise out of some misguided sense of moral correctness would be really hypocritical.

In a world of cyberpunk, where everyone lives on the edge, where dark human morality finds voice through modern technology, I'll be awfully disappointed if few tits will be enough to make the game controversial. That being said, I don't want to see a world where every woman moves and looks like a whore and all men are either pimps or overloaded on machismo.

 

[gregski]

The "seductive female in a submissive pose", as some love to describe her, can be seen fully - so we can see what pose she's in and exactly how "seductively" she's dressed - for about 12 seconds of the whole 2:21 trailer, and those 12 seconds are split into pieces that last 3-4 seconds.

For comparison, Cyberpunk logo is on the screen for 9 seconds non stop.

I'm sorry I cannot wrap my mind around all this, but if it was actually this disgusting marketing trend of male gaze, shouldn't they concentrate on the girl for like, I don't know, at least a minute? Showing her slowly, top down, close up?

 

[netweaver]

The "seductive female in a submissive pose", as some love to describe her, can be seen fully - so we can see what pose she's in and exactly how "seductively" she's dressed - for about 12 seconds of the whole 2:21 trailer, and those 12 seconds are split into pieces that last 3-4 seconds.

For comparison, Cyberpunk logo is on the screen for 9 seconds non stop.

I'm sorry I cannot wrap my mind around all this, but if it was actually this disgusting marketing trend of male gaze, shouldn't they concentrate on the girl for like, I don't know, at least a minute? Showing her slowly, top down, close up?

It is in the nature of those who nitpick to nitpick. If you put a 1 second long screen of a penis in a 7 hour long movie about something, people would complain about it, not because it was retarded, but because it was a penis. And they would complain more about the penis than about the quality of the rest of the movie.
Ill developed moral values are a horrid thing.

Also, there is very little truly seductive or submissive about the woman once everything is taken into account.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

It occured to me while reading this thread again that there seem to be a ton of people here who have no idea about the world of Cyberpunk 2020 - the world on which the game Cyberpunk 2077 is based. Out of those people complaining here about the "sexualization" of the game, I'm guessing one or two have actually played Cyberpunk 2020, and held the core rulebook in their hands. I'm guessing next to none have seen the four Chromebooks, let alone any of the other dozens of sourcebooks, adventure books and novels.

Well, here's a crash course for the ignorant:

http://imgur.com/a/P26Ch#0

Those pictures are a sort of a compilation of how female beauty has always been depicted in Cyberpunk 2020, and how girls and women of that world dress and present themselves.

To me personally, the teaser video was nothing but a moving cover sheet of Chromebook 5. It wasn't any more racy or raunchy or "sexualized" than anything I haven't seen a million times in Cyberpunk 2020 before. So, it's pretty much an undeniable fact that what we see in the teaser video is exactly what Cyberpunk 2020 is all about, and has always been.
....
In any case, anyone complaining here about the "oversexualization" of this game doesn't get what Cyberpunk 2020 is all about, or does, and still wants to change it. Complaining like that is just asking for 2077 to be a different game, a watered down, politically correct prudish version of what is the perfection of Cyberpunk 2020.

I just hope Projekt RED doesn't listen to all of that, and instead decides to preserve the game, it's world and vibe, it's Style, Attitude and Edge, as it is.

Posts like this are why this forum needs some sort of Like button.

 

[Demut]

Like buttons are pointless. Even more so when not accompanied by a dislike button. Just check out the Witcher forums.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

Also, how big is the role augmentations play in sex?

There are only two "official" remarks on this. One is the existence (though without stats given) of implants known as "Mr. Studd" for males and "Midnite Lady" for females that is openly stated as being the sexual equivalent of cyberlimbs. The other remark is an offhand line in one of the books how two full-body-conversion 'borgs have sex - the remark is made about how it "sounds like two trashcans banging together".

 

[Overdosing]

I think even attempting such would be a complete waste of time. remember first Mass Effect and the outrage it got for that horrible horrible sex scene, while in reality it was a really touching and tasteful way of showing how two different people respect each other enough to care about each other's sexual and emotional well being.

No special treatment should be given to sexuality, really. There will always be people who will rage over it and those are probably the same people that won't see what the game is truly about. Sex has a number of different roles in our society. Recreational, procreational and emotional, and all are equally important. I see nothing wrong with sex(uality) in the game "just because", because that is part of human nature and to trying imply otherwise out of some misguided sense of moral correctness would be really hypocritical.

In a world of cyberpunk, where everyone lives on the edge, where dark human morality finds voice through modern technology, I'll be awfully disappointed if few tits will be enough to make the game controversial. That being said, I don't want to see a world where every woman moves and looks like a whore and all men are either pimps or overloaded on machismo.

Beautifully said.

 

[ChaosWolf1982]

http://imgur.com/a/P26Ch#0



The women in the pictures look so 80's.I hope in the game they have more update clothes.After all it is 2077 not 2020.

Styles always come back into fashion after a while.

 

[Mihura]

Not sure what u mean by that? Some women are very sexual some not. Women are trying to upgrade their looks by plastic surgeries, makeups and all other stuff. Woman are spending hours before mirror, in shops etc. Obviously there are some men that do that too and some women don't but it does not change general picture.




What u don't see is that the values of CP2077 should be the values of CP2020. So please read the CP2020 corebook first.



Yes that can happen. But will be rare any way. There are men prostitutes and women prostitutes - compare the numbers...

At the same time again it is funny how some people are offended by the products that are aimed mostly to male audience. Check most of the fantasy books. How many female main characters do u see? But let's look on the Twilight Saga that is loved by women all over the world. How men are presented there? One teenage girl to choose between vampire and werewolf that are both in love with her - LOL. Do we care about how women imagine the ideal men should be like and how they are portrayed - no we don't.

In other words - when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Because noone will change the Rome for 3% of the people that do not like it.

What I meant by asexual is that you state that women are attract to men only in a non-sexual way, like power and personalty maybe pansexuality is more appropriated which is a lie, some women are heterosexual and attracted to the male body. I already read the CP2020 corebook but I am no lore master quite the opposite.

All your speech about prostitutes which you did not give me numbers is a 20-something statistic, jut like men having more AIDS in my country for example. Fantasy books(there a plenty just because you do not know about them it does not mean they do not exist aka Marion Zimmer Bradley, Gail Carriger, Jim C. Hines just to name a few authors) and Twilight Saga is as bad as Call of Duty, how about Once upon a Time? All of this is still your and mine preceptive on 2013, so follow your own rules.

I am not in Rome and I liked the trailer and there are plenty of dark and diverse tv series out there, Spartacus, Game of Thrones, Rome...etc.

Not all women have to dress like that and diversity is more then welcome, that is my point and by the way Johnny Silverhand is not your typical macho man, I would put him in a more bishounen category.

 

[KIrving]

There is certainly a lot of fun brainstorming to be had with an extremely futuristic setting. If you want to "go all out" and "break the norm", then go all the damn way out, twist and bend the gender and sex norms of 2013. and don't care WHO finds it offensive. It's funny how people will come up with lengthy essays defending oversexualised women, but flinch at the slightest mention of a man's ass in thongs. The elephant in the room isn't female sexuality, it is the male one. If you want to be ahead of time, explore that, it's what people will find truly shocking.

This, very much. Thank you for this post, especially this part, and for putting these thoughts far more eloquently than I could manage.

 

[username_3643051]

Guys,

Go to your nearby mall. Watch people. You will notice that you don't see women walking around with their rack exposed and their pants painted on... yet somehow they have husbands and boyfriends. Somehow... and without all the supposed necessary visual sex queen attire, women don't seem to have a problem getting laid.

So I ask you, why do women in video games need huge boobs flopping around and their underwear showing?

They don't.

I hope my female protagonist is small chested, slender and long legged. In other words, an athletic, well proportioned, tall, sleek, and intelligent woman of 2077.

 

[KIrving]

Guys,

Go to your nearby mall. Watch people. You will notice that you don't see women walking around with their rack exposed and their pants painted on... yet somehow they have husbands and boyfriends. Somehow... and without all the supposed necessary visual sex queen attire, women don't seem to have a problem getting laid.

So I ask you, why do women in video games need huge boobs flopping around and their underwear showing?

They don't.

I hope my female protagonist is small chested, slender and long legged. In other words, an athletic, well proportioned, tall, sleek, and intelligent woman of 2077.

While I very much agree on most of this, I also see where dressing provocatively or even in a sexy manner can be an expression of the style and attitude of the setting (for both sexes). What it comes down to, for me, is options. I might want to make a character that dresses revealingly to show off tats, cybernetics, augmentations etc. or even as a blatant "you're never getting to touch this" tease, depending on the character I create. I'd also like the option to fully cover up my character in practical clothing and sensible shoes.

 

[Sydanyo]

Guys,

Go to your nearby mall. Watch people. You will notice that you don't see women walking around with their rack exposed and their pants painted on... yet somehow they have husbands and boyfriends. Somehow... and without all the supposed necessary visual sex queen attire, women don't seem to have a problem getting laid.

So I ask you, why do women in video games need huge boobs flopping around and their underwear showing?

They don't.

I hope my female protagonist is small chested, slender and long legged. In other words, an athletic, well proportioned, tall, sleek, and intelligent woman of 2077.

The repressed zealously religious puritania of today is hardly a good example of how a world should work, so going to a mall to see how the indoctrinated and brainwashed people of today's society act will tell us nothing of how things can or should be.

Also, if your thinking is that women are "trying to get laid" by wearing something sexy, today, let alone in the world of Cyberpunk 2020/2077, then I don't think you know women very well.

 

[Stiffkittin]

The "seductive female in a submissive pose", as some love to describe her, can be seen fully - so we can see what pose she's in and exactly how "seductively" she's dressed - for about 12 seconds of the whole 2:21 trailer, and those 12 seconds are split into pieces that last 3-4 seconds.

For comparison, Cyberpunk logo is on the screen for 9 seconds non stop.

So... you think the logo is the central character of the scene?!!

I'm sorry I cannot wrap my mind around all this, but if it was actually this disgusting marketing trend of male gaze, shouldn't they concentrate on the girl for like, I don't know, at least a minute? Showing her slowly, top down, close up?

Sorry, can't tell if you're still addressing me. I never said it was disgusting, just a cliche and a bit cynical. Not sure whether you're just pre-judging comments despite the actual words written in them or if your reading comprehension is a bit wobbly.

 

[Stiffkittin]

It is in the nature of those who nitpick to nitpick. If you put a 1 second long screen of a penis in a 7 hour long movie about something, people would complain about it, not because it was retarded, but because it was a penis. And they would complain more about the penis than about the quality of the rest of the movie.
Ill developed moral values are a horrid thing.

Also, there is very little truly seductive or submissive about the woman once everything is taken into account.

Actually this is probably a fair charge. I've worked in both advertising and dabbled in amateur film, so I know some of the technical tricks behind the scenes and instinctively break things down when I see them. I'm not sure if we'd necessarily be having the same discussion about a full movie, made up of scores of scenes and a real story as a single scene marketing short but I do get your point.

As for the cyborg killer and her attitude within the scene I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But thank you for responding to the criticism in the context it was actually made.