A couple design features I would love. Ownership. many visible item slots. Ownership.

+
A couple design features I would love. Ownership. many visible item slots. Ownership.

Hello all,

To say that I am stoked for this game is an understatement. I just got my hands on an early version of one of the expansion books for Cyberpunk just to keep me frothing at the mouth. I wanted to contribute a couple of design elements that get me down on RPG's. These are not deal breakers for me(I look for the good always - its a game afterall). But there are a few things that I wanted to mention.

Ownership. Over your character. Your play space. Your gear. Your Home. Your Transportation. Having a sense of ownership in the world allows the player to engage in a much more immersive manner. One of the reasons I think the elder scrolls series gets so much credit for immersion is the ability to touch everything in the world. When you have a house that you can tweak, or place trophies dedicated to your travels. Or weird items that you found around the world. Or complete some task. Or even give your character new stats, your sense of ownership is greater, and your sense of immersion is deeper.

I would love to see:
a. Multiple visible gear slots for a variety of gear that either serve some purpose or just give your character visual flair.
b. mulitple weapons with sheaths and representation on the avatar (a la witcher 3...so I'm hopeful here).
c. Customization for your vehicles (paint, gadgets, features, etc)
d. Customization for housing units. Storage, quests, even some weird futuristic hydroponic farming...

A few ideas as far as this goes. Imagine a gadget system that has you interface with a computer in your apartment. You start doing research and maybe you have to solve a few puzzles and when you do, you level up your ability to create some item that might be unique. Or maybe you hack into a building's alarm system from your home computer, then as you wait smoking a cigarette looking out on the beautiful city, there is a knock on your apartment door. It's security and they traced the hack...Luckly earlier you installed a door security system that blasts the hallway with flames....That kind of stuff. Allowing choices in the game world to dictate how the actual gameplay might occur.

Anyway. Thanks for reading and considering. We are just having a convo. So I hope no one gets super defensive. :p
 
Weellll...Cyberpunk ethos is kinda hard, Street-style and mean. You own things, but not usually a lot and not usually anything very fixed. Because it can slow you down and also be taken from you.

Advice to people running Cyberpunk games from the writer of the PnP CDPR is using is:

Cpunk.jpg

Gear slots and look customization etc are cool, but the Edgerunner of tomorrow typically lives and moves fast.

Oh, also Corp Security doesn't knock on your door after a trace. They come through full speed and pissed off. Good thing you were using your neighbours feed though.
 

Attachments

  • Cpunk.jpg
    Cpunk.jpg
    161.8 KB · Views: 68
Sardukhar;n10221462 said:
Weellll...Cyberpunk ethos is kinda hard, Street-style and mean. You own things, but not usually a lot and not usually anything very fixed. Because it can slow you down and also be taken from you.

Advice to people running Cyberpunk games from the writer of the PnP CDPR is using is:



Gear slots and look customization etc are cool, but the Edgerunner of tomorrow typically lives and moves fast.

Oh, also Corp Security doesn't knock on your door after a trace. They come through full speed and pissed off. Good thing you were using your neighbours feed though.

Gonna disagree with you here from a gameplay standpoint. I'm absolutely on board with everything OP said - it may not strictly "be Cyberpunk", but screw it, it sounds fun as hell to me and I see no good reason not to have that sort of thing. I recall reading in the rulebook that Cyberpunks do actually have hideouts, even if they have more than one and don't tend to visit the same one twice in a short (or medium) period of time. It's not completely un-lore-friendly, in other words. But even if it was, I personally could care less - again, sounds fun to me. Just my opinion, though.

All of that said, this isn't a Bethesda RPG, either. As cool as it would be to own your own crappy little apartment in a dark alleyway, I'm not sure how likely it will be. CDPR emphasizes story over ultimate player freedom, which is perfectly fine and arguably a better approach in some cases (absolutely worse in others, as the OP said).
 
there's always been a bit of a disconnect between the flavor text and the realities of criminal life. cyberpunk 2020 preaches "style over substance" but the fact is edgerunners are just criminals with a better rep, and standing out in a crowd is a bad thing when the people you've fragged off are out to kill you. stay in the same place too long and night a hit squad is going to put a frag through your window. as for visible sheaths/holsters... you want to keep that kinda thing on the down low! even in places where it's not technically illegal to carry around a rifle, there's plenty of incidents where the idiot doing so was taken into custody at gunpoint. why do you think trench-coats are a cyberpunk staple?

 
Snowflakez;n10222162 said:
Gonna disagree with you here from a gameplay standpoint. I'm absolutely on board with everything OP said - it may not strictly "be Cyberpunk", but screw it, it sounds fun as hell to me and I see no good reason not to have that sort of thing.

Because it's not Cyberpunk. It's Skyrim. Or Fable. Or Oblivion. Or many many other games where you can be Loot Dude with Car Garage.

That cyberpunk feel is easy to miss - Deus Ex didn't have it, for example.

Gotta be a 'punk as much as you are a Future Guy. Both in the low-down, on the Street sense and the rebellion sense.

I'm all for some kind of flavour-laden housing, but it should be a)poor ( at least to start) b) impermanent and c) vulnerable.

 

Guest 4149880

Guest
Sardukhar;n10223592 said:
That cyberpunk feel is easy to miss - Deus Ex didn't have it, for example.

This is something I don't think many people understand. Many comparisons of Cyberpunk to Deus Ex because of the "Cyber" part but Deus Ex doesn't contain that feel to me, which everyone has a different point of view on but for me personally, Deus Ex wasn't it. When other games that don't even contain the cyber aspect but can capture that atmosphere still.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sardukhar;n10223592 said:
Because it's not Cyberpunk. It's Skyrim. Or Fable. Or Oblivion. Or many many other games where you can be Loot Dude with Car Garage.

That cyberpunk feel is easy to miss - Deus Ex didn't have it, for example.

Gotta be a 'punk as much as you are a Future Guy. Both in the low-down, on the Street sense and the rebellion sense.

I'm all for some kind of flavour-laden housing, but it should be a)poor ( at least to start) b) impermanent and c) vulnerable.

I'm pretty sure owning an apartment and a vehicle of your own is not going to compromise the Cyberpunk feel... Just saying. I don't care if it's risky, or if I'll lose my vehicle if it gets blown up or stolen, or if I'll have to shell out for some serious apartment repairs when someone places a bomb in my toilet - I want that stuff because its fun. It has nothing to do with Skyrim. Or Fable. Or any other game on the planet.

A mechanic in and of itself doesn't need to be exclusive to one game, or one genre. You can have the most hardcore RPG on the planet and have a housing system. You can have the least hardcore RPG on the planet and have a "Tactical mode".

You can tweak things to fit the Cyberpunk feel. The Cyberpunk feel absolutely should not be set in stone. CP2020 already exists. It's time for 2077. Fresh ideas that keep with the theme - that's what I want to see.

It's OK if you want Cyberpunk 2020 - 2077 edition. You aren't alone. Su does too, I'm sure, and probably lots of other people here. But I don't. I believe you'd be making the same mistake Yooka Laylee made with the platform/collectathon genre. It was a 1-to-1 translation of the classic games, without any of the benefits time has brought to the genre. It's why A Hat In Time was significantly better - it kept the theme, the formula and the ideas, but it improved so much too.

Please note: not asking for the game to not be an RPG or anything crazy like that. You probably know my opinions at least a wee bit by now, and they align with many of Su's and yours as far as RPG-ness goes and generally keeping things brutal, hardcore and unforgiving.

All just opinion. Not fact. Not demands.
 
Last edited:
Snowflakez;n10223672 said:
All just opinion. Not fact. Not demands.

Yeah, that's fine. No need to be so wary. No one here is going to bite your head off. Su and I disagree on lots. animal automatically disagrees with everyone and then says something less than genius, usually about sex. Kofe despises everything not shaped like Baldur's Gate. Everything!

We often disagree, quite healthy. Hopefully politely.

That said you're wrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong. Wrongy wrongy wronmg wrong. Yes I know about the tyoios!

CP2020 doesn't already exist in videogame land at all. Nothing like it really exists. Sure, you have cyberware games and open world and the occasional I'm a rebel! game, even some cool PnP-style RPGs like Bloodlines..but nothing close to 2020.

First bring the coolness, the grit, the realism, the edge and the punk of 2020 to CRPG world, then try to make something else after that. Do the one, then the other.

Because it's pretty easy to miss the mark by adding in all sorts of "wouldn't that be cool" features.

 
Sardukhar;n10225392 said:
Yeah, that's fine. No need to be so wary. No one here is going to bite your head off. Su and I disagree on lots. animal automatically disagrees with everyone and then says something less than genius, usually about sex. Kofe despises everything not shaped like Baldur's Gate. Everything!

Yep, I know, it's mostly for the benefit of the influx of newbies here. I feel the need to be extra cautious so as not to come across as a jerk. Speaking of Animal, where's he been lately? Haven't heard from him since he said something about wanting multiple protagonists for the 30th time.

Sardukhar;n10225392 said:
That said you're wrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong. Wrongy wrongy wronmg wrong. Yes I know about the tyoios!

CP2020 doesn't already exist in videogame land at all. Nothing like it really exists. Sure, you have cyberware games and open world and the occasional I'm a rebel! game, even some cool PnP-style RPGs like Bloodlines..but nothing close to 2020.

I guess I don't really see how that explains why what I said is somehow incompatible with that vision, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. You can't have personally-owned vehicles that fit the theme of realism and Cyberpunk? Why? If that appeared as the norm in Cyberpunk Red, but everything else was in tact, would you say it "wasn't Cyberpunk"? Pondsmith is the creator of Cyberpunk. So long as it doesn't totally deviate from what he's done in the past, Cyberpunk is -- quite frankly -- whatever the hell he says it is. That's the nice thing about creating worlds like this. As long as you don't alienate your core fans, what's the issue?

I've said it before, but here it is again: it doesn't need to be risk free. Nothing does. Nothing should be.

Shell out a bunch of money on a vehicle? Your enemies may decide to hide a nasty little surprise under your seat one day. Without particularly high perception (or the 2020 equivalent) or skill with demolitions, you may need to make a dexterity/reflex check to avoid getting blown sky high - but your vehicle is still done for. Now, avoiding save scumming could be an issue, but I never do that in RPGs anyway.

Returning to one hideout too often? Oops. Bad idea. Same deal.

Not incompatible with Cyberpunk. I don't see how it possibly could be, because there's rules for all of this stuff -- to some degree -- in the PnP already. There's rules for vehicles (can't say whether or not there's rules for buying vehicles, as I haven't looked into specifics). There's rules that mention hideouts.

I'll fully admit that most of the stuff the other gentleman admitted (that I said I'd love to see) would not fit the theme. Most. Not all.

I'm looking at the rules for wheeled vehicles right now, and some are comparatively cheap - something the corp you work for could easily kit you out with, if they so choosed, and it seems like something a Punk could save towards. It can come with drawbacks, of course (the whole "Selling your soul and risking your life" thing in particular) but I see no reason for it not to exist at all.
 
Last edited:
Snowflakez;n10227952 said:
Yep, I know, it's mostly for the benefit of the influx of newbies here. I feel the need to be extra cautious so as not to come across as a jerk. Speaking of Animal, where's he been lately? Haven't heard from him since he said something about wanting multiple protagonists for the 30th time.



I guess I don't really see how that explains why what I said is somehow incompatible with that vision,.


Oh animal comes and goes.


Yeah, not everything he or you said is incompatible, but the idea of a space you own and customize and keep...that kind of ownership, if taken from the player, guarantees bad feelings. The only other option is safe ownership, thus the Loot Apartment and Loot Garage. That's my issue.

Mike created the PnP of Cyberpunk, but it's based on lots of other fiction and lots of real life. Key though is low-life and high-tech, and some kind of Sims Make Your House Yours simulator isn't really that.

People are going to ask what makes this different, gameplay-wise, than Skyrim-with-guns or Fallout4-without-mutants, and key is that dangerous, vulnerable Street feel, I think.

I didn't say and don't think apartments, crashpads, vehicles shouldn't exist at all - I just don't think you should have secure ownership of them.
 
Sardukhar;n10225392 said:
Yeah, that's fine. No need to be so wary. No one here is going to bite your head off. Su and I disagree on lots.
That's because as an egocentric AMERICAN (Fuck Ya!) I have a duty to educate Canunks ... eventually they'll see the light and be annexed.

Sardukhar;n10225392 said:
CP2020 doesn't already exist in videogame land at all. Nothing like it really exists. Sure, you have cyberware games and open world and the occasional I'm a rebel! game, even some cool PnP-style RPGs like Bloodlines..but nothing close to 2020.

First bring the coolness, the grit, the realism, the edge and the punk of 2020 to CRPG world, then try to make something else after that. Do the one, then the other.

Because it's pretty easy to miss the mark by adding in all sorts of "wouldn't that be cool" features.
This is going to be the hardest part of CP2077 to get "right".
It's hard to describe but there's a "flavor" to Cyberpunk that goes beyond it's rules and setting.

You're not so much "fighting the system" as "tweaking it's nose", it's to big, to all pervasive, to entrenched to fight. The "real" problem is those at the top have forgotten (or ignore) "people". To them you're numbers, interchangeable cogs in the great "consumer-profits" machine. Wouldn't it be grand if they didn't need to wast time and money on advertising and consumer's would automatically buy their products over those of their competitors? The "Company Store" tradition had it right, pay people barely enough they can live comfortably (but not well) and insure their total dependence on "The Company".

Corps really aren't so much "evil" as "uncaring".
You, as an Edgerunner have taken it upon yourself to make them care.

This is probably one of the reasons Cyperpunk was so popular in Poland during the Soviet Era, the similarities are pretty eerie.
 
Last edited:
Sardukhar;n10229852 said:
I didn't say and don't think apartments, crashpads, vehicles shouldn't exist at all - I just don't think you should have secure ownership of them.

Then we are in agreement. Sorry for misunderstanding.

Suhiira;n10230262 said:
That's because as an egocentric AMERICAN (Fuck Ya!) I have a duty to educate Canunks ... eventually they'll see the light and be annexed.

As long as they get to keep maple syrup.

Suhiira;n10230262 said:
This is going to be the hardest part of CP2077 to get "right".
It's hard to describe but there's a "flavor" to Cyberpunk that goes beyond it's rules and setting.

You're not so much "fighting the system" as "tweaking it's nose", it's to big, to all pervasive, to entrenched to fight. The "real" problem is those at the top have forgotten (or ignore) "people". To them you're numbers, interchangeable cogs in the great "consumer-profits" machine. Wouldn't it be grand if they didn't need to wast time and money on advertising and consumer's would automatically buy their products over those of their competitors? The "Company Store" tradition had it right, pay them enough they can live comfortably (but not well) and insure their total dependence on "The Company".

Corps really aren't so much "evil" as "uncaring".
You, as an Edgerunner have taken it upon yourself to make them care.

You might like VA-11 HALL-A, if you're at all interested in the "visual novel" style. Really hits the Cyberpunk theme well, in my opinion. Corporations are essentially using the city you bartend in as a giant testing ground for new drugs and the like, body count be damned.

Thing I especially loved about it was that you are nobody special, nobody interesting. Not a hero. Just a bartender. Your job is to listen and serve drinks, that's about it. The drinks you serve, and how much alcohol you throw into them, shapes the story.

Not that I'd want CP2077 to have that feel - but you can hit the "Cyberpunk" theme in more ways than one, is my point. Outside of the context of 2077 and 2020, there's many stories to be told, and that's why I love that this genre as a whole is getting revived somewhat. The more unique games we see, the better!

That said, the anime style of the game is enough to turn off a lot of people, understandably - part of me wishes they'd gone with something more realistic, because the stories the game tells are very much grounded in reality.

Also, I love the idea of booping the snoot of a giant corporation...

...With a gun.

Suhiira;n10230262 said:
This is probably one of the reasons Cyperpunk was so popular in Poland during the Soviet Era, the similarities are pretty eerie.

Excellent point, actually. Really drives home that statement CDPR gave once when they said "We had communism and we had Cyberpunk". Cyberpunk must have really struck a chord with them, makes me happy they're the ones working on the game, and not some cynical, "AAA" company from the good ol' US of A - they'd be too stupid to realize they're the ones we'd be fighting against in a CP universe... Probably.
 
Last edited:

Guest 4149880

Guest
Plaxeko;n10221072 said:
I would love to see:
a. Multiple visible gear slots for a variety of gear that either serve some purpose or just give your character visual flair.
b. mulitple weapons with sheaths and representation on the avatar (a la witcher 3...so I'm hopeful here).
c. Customization for your vehicles (paint, gadgets, features, etc)
d. Customization for housing units. Storage, quests, even some weird futuristic hydroponic farming...

I'm 100% hoping for this as well.

Basically anything your character is currently equipped with should be displayed on your character, absolutely. I think these options should be locked once chosen at loadout, otherwise everyone will simply unequip weapons at a given moment so it goes unnoticed to NPC. So therefore choose your equipment wisely otherwise the only way to get rid of the weapon is to ditch it in an alleyway or something, not a simple inventory click and it removes from the character.

Anything your character uses should be shown on the character model. Clothing, cyberwear, belts, holsters, attachments, backpacks, weapons, etc...

The weapons being displayed is a big plus. Whether or not the weapons are being used in hand, they should be either strapped around or holstered. This would play a huge part into gameplay as well, when a rifle might be hard to conceal so you opt to use a pistol. This would also make inventory management much more realistic when you're limited to the character model.

Obviously vehicle customization. Enough said.

I also think vehicles with enough storage space could be used by players as mobile homes. Yes, people live out of their cars, so that personal aspect of owning your vehicle and stashing equipment into it could also serve that purpose.

I see no problem with personal shelters of all sorts and sizes and I would like to see houses, apartments, shacks, storage containers, garages and vehicles to live in. Hope it plays into the game more then a glorified loot stash system though, and more used for the players actual personal space they can build up and make their own through their journey in the game.

This would also play into building up enough home equipment to acquire personal computers and network systems to be access the network from the players home space, as well as an area to store vehicles, weapons and any equipment the player has acquired, rather then simply holding it for the entirety of the game.

I highly doubt the player is going to be broke and on the street the entire game, No its going to be a personal story so that lifestyle will be the players choice regardless of the challenge they must overcome to get what they want.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Snowflakez;n10230522 said:
Excellent point, actually. Really drives home that statement CDPR gave once when they said "We had communism and we had Cyberpunk". Cyberpunk must have really struck a chord with them, makes me happy they're the ones working on the game, and not some cynical, "AAA" company from the good ol' US of A - they'd be too stupid to realize they're the ones we'd be fighting against in a CP universe... Probably.
E/A is near the top of my personal list ...

 
Wow, there are some pretty varying viewpoints and opinions on this issue. Let me see if I can bring some sense into this discussion: To talk about Cyberpunk 2077, we must first have to understand Cyberpunk 2020 and the literary genre'/ feel OF that genre' that made it possible in the FIRST place. Ok, the cyberpunk vision was started by Philip K. Dick (of "Blade Runner" fame. The actual title of the short story that inspired Blade Runner was: " Do androids dream of electric sheep?" BTW.) and other authors as William Gibson, Bruce Sterling and a plethora of many others whom it would be too exhaustive to mention here. The basic idea was simply this: What if...? What if corporations and their Government puppets ruled the world? Told you what to think? Feel? Buy? How to behave? What if, the average person were put into a position where they were under the thumbs of said entities? In these circumstances, WHAT WOULD REBELS AGAINST SUCH A SYSTEM LOOK LIKE? The average protagonist in the Cyberpunk genre' would be, by necessity, be a mobile, low profile entity as Firstly, anything closely resembling "real estate" would largely, if not in total, be in the control of the Corps and their Government cronies....and owning anything more than a few meager possessions, would more than likely draw the attention of those who are in power....not a good thing for a would-be rebel against the system. Second, even if you did manage to acquire some abandoned shithole that was beneath the notice of the all seeing eye of the corps and the feds, others would have the same exact idea, so the idea of a truly SAFEHAVEN, is, and should be completely alien to the average "edgerunner". The whole rationale behind it all is an overwhelming sense of paranoia and a feeling that everything, including peace of mind has a cost, is at the leisure of others and is for sale. The feeling would be one of striking from the shadows, only to disappear from the "All-seeing eyes" into the shadows of the dark streets. What makes a true Cyberpunk "hero" (More like an "anti-hero, but I digress) is the ability to overcome such obstacles and, despite the odds, STILL make a difference....Maybe, if you are skilled and lucky enough, you just might beat the system at it's own game as well. Food for thought, folks.
 
Last edited:
kofeiiniturpa;n10242852 said:
Fallout, man! Fallout 1&2!

AARGH. I ABASE MYSELF IN HORROR!

Also, a friend is playing F1 again. Soooo good.

More than secure ownership of Things, I would like to see a game mechanic that tracks ownership of your Style. So when you walk into a store or buy a piece of gear, the vendor is all like, "Mr. Sardukhar, I think this is something you''d like!"

and people occasionally refer to it, "Don't need no weeflerunner tricked-out Zetatech decks down here - we saw that footage from last week, choomba!"

Personal touches to your Style that increase as your Rep goes up in game.

Eventually maybe gear and clothes and whatnot that they license your name for.

The "KofeHunter" brand of mugs and bullet casings, kind of thing.
 
Sardukhar;n10246092 said:
AARGH. I ABASE MYSELF IN HORROR!

Also, a friend is playing F1 again. Soooo good.

More than secure ownership of Things, I would like to see a game mechanic that tracks ownership of your Style. So when you walk into a store or buy a piece of gear, the vendor is all like, "Mr. Sardukhar, I think this is something you''d like!"

and people occasionally refer to it, "Don't need no weeflerunner tricked-out Zetatech decks down here - we saw that footage from last week, choomba!"

Personal touches to your Style that increase as your Rep goes up in game.

Eventually maybe gear and clothes and whatnot that they license your name for.

The "KofeHunter" brand of mugs and bullet casings, kind of thing.

I can't get into Fallout 1... Wish I could. Bit too dated for me at this point. Same goes for Baldur's Gate, but I'm judging that one by its cover more since I haven't tried it myself.
 
Top Bottom