Platform Discussion Thread

[sv3672]

If that's true, that's interesting. I was not aware of that. That would be extremely strange, though. Literally every single Steam game I have requires the client to be open to be played, even if it's in offline mode. That is, in and of itself, DRM. If TW3 is different, props to both Valve and CDPR for allowing it. It really should be more clearly stated on the store page, because that's a huge selling point if true.

List of DRM free games on Steam (some of those may need workarounds, though, or are DRM free only on certain operating systems like Linux).

Regardless, GoG has no such requirements, for any of their games, even if those games have DRM on other platforms (like Steam).

GOG has a requirement towards developers to release their games DRM free. On Steam, developers can choose to release DRM free if they want to, most just want to use DRM, or they do not care and follow what the majority does.

 

[SigilFey]

Either way, once the game is on your hard drive, it is yours, you can keep playing it even in the case the account was lost for some reason.

Steam...requires the client to be open to be played, even if it's in offline mode. That is, in and of itself, DRM.

For Steam, you actually never own the software. Steam does. You purchase a license to use their software according to their terms, and you must run the programs through Steam at all times (online or offline) to receive access to the programs. GOG is different, since it allows customers to actually download the installation packages to use at will, and Galaxy is not required. Not sure what the actual "purchase" is for GOG, though (license or ownership of the software itself). I imagine a straightforward copy of the software.

Also, I think this is very much on topic, since such considerations are fairly big for PC. GOG allows players to roll back to prior versions; Steam will not. For massive RPGs, I know what I prefer.

I actually have no problem with DRM, in theory. As long as it provides value

Ditto. I'll not go into it, but I had a massive problem with the style of DRM used in Assassin's Creed 2 (lag and interrupted gameplay due to connection issues) or things like Starfrorce that were so intrusive and aggressive, that I had issues with the game itself and completely unrelated programs...then had to go into Safe Mode to uninstall it. I'd seriously prefer the old code wheel or manual reference look-up that they used to use in the '80s and '90s. That type of approach is inexcusable in my opinion -- it simply mars the experience for paying customers by indirectly accusing everyone of being a thief. And it certainly doesn't seem to have any affect on the cheaters and hackers at all.

Rather, I feel DRM should be something that will provide certification of a title upon request. IF there is a problem, then I can call the DRM up and it will be able to say authentic / non-authentic, and I can handle that problem from there.

Steam offers me deals, achievement functionality, a marketplace, a robust community system where I can quickly get help from others or discuss a given game, software and video downloads, the steam workshop and -- of course -- the Friends and chat system, which I use on a daily basis. Valve, for all of their problems, is committed to providing the most value they possibly can to their users. I respect the heck out of that, especially because it's not like they have any real competition to force them to do so.

Truly, I don't have much of an issue with modern-day Steam. I think the return policy was finally implemented is a very fair way, and I have the ability to disable all of the "pop-up" stuff, as well as play offline if I want. The client itself is tiny and doesn't affect performance. The only thing I think is still a major flaw is the forced update. If they want to offer support for only the latest version of a title, that's one thing, but don't force updates down my throat, especially if I have a specific reason not to update (like a mod I know will break).

Valve, for all of their problems, is committed to providing the most value they possibly can to their users. I respect the heck out of that, especially because it's not like they have any real competition to force them to do so.

Spoiler: Now, *this* is off-topic...

Personally, and this is not a popular mindset in business, I think satisfying your consumer base and offering consistent quality is well more than enough of a challenge. I don't support competition (not the way it's meant in the modern world). I feel many businesses have lost all sense of what "the market" was supposed to be; they instead call low-blows and back-stabs "competition". They try to destroy the "competition"...decimate their armies, burn their villages, and enslave their people. That's war, not competition. Granted, that's where a lot of the biggest companies come from, but what do they leave? Is their product of true quality? Will people still remember them 100 years from now? Not usually, I find. Rather, they simply tie up a whole lot of money that could have been used productively, waste a lot more money, then fade away as if they were never there. That's...irresponsible. It's banditry, not competition. Competition involves honor. It involves sportsmanship. And being #1 doesn't mean everyone else is out of the game. It's only a way of gaining attention. Therefore, I think Steam should be lauded for their efforts to improve things over time.

 

[sv3672]

For Steam, you actually never own the software. Steam does. You purchase a license to use their software according to their terms, and you must run the programs through Steam at all times (online or offline) to receive access to the programs. GOG is different, since it allows customers to actually download the installation packages to use at will, and Galaxy is not required. Not sure what the actual "purchase" is for GOG, though (license or ownership of the software itself). I imagine a straightforward copy of the software.

It is true of any copyrighted software that you only own a license to use (and, in the case of a more liberal license, modify and redistribute) it, the software itself is owned by the copyright holder. Whether an application distributed via Steam can be run without the client, it is the developer's decision, as I noted before, The Witcher 3 for example does not need the client. There is even some open source free software released on Steam, like Blender.

It is possible and not difficult to write software in a way that it does not require an installer, the downloaded copy can simply be backed up and copied to another PC, and it still works. I recall there are also indie games that detect if they are being run with or without the client, and in the former case they enable various online features, but they remain functional as single player "offline" games if their executable is launched separately.

Also, I think this is very much on topic, since such considerations are fairly big for PC. GOG allows players to roll back to prior versions; Steam will not. For massive RPGs, I know what I prefer.

In fact, it is possible to "downgrade" software downloaded from Steam. It requires the use of the Steam console and is obviously not as user friendly as a feature available via the graphical user interface, but the functionality is there. All previous versions of all depots (modules) of a game can be downloaded by manifest ID with console commands.

Forced upgrades can be annoying, even if workarounds do exist, both to prevent them and to roll back to a previous version if necessary. Although they are also somewhat understandable from the developers' point of view, it does increase the burden on tech support when many people run various old versions and report bugs that have already been fixed, and it can be an issue in multiplayer as well if not everyone is running the same version.

 

[Suhiira]

If that's true, that's interesting. I was not aware of that. That would be extremely strange, though. Literally every single Steam game I have requires the client to be open to be played, even if it's in offline mode. That is, in and of itself, DRM. If TW3 is different, props to both Valve and CDPR for allowing it. It really should be more clearly stated on the store page, because that's a huge selling point if true.

My first experience with Steam ... many years ago ... was "Skyrim". At the time I didn't have any internet, but my neighbor did. So I hauled my rig over there and installed the game and monthly I hauled it back for patches and to check the Nexus for mods. As long as I set the game to "Play in offline mode" WHILE ONLINE I was fine, but if I forgot to it was impossible to change it to offline mode if you were offline.

So, no, you don't "need" to be online to play Steam games (at least not all of them).

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Neither. I might play it on Linux when CDPR will release it for Linux proper. Today it's easier than ever for them, so they shouldn't mess it up like they did with the Witcher 3 Linux release.

 

[sv3672]

As much as I would like to see a native Linux release, from what I have seen so far, at the moment I do not think it is likely. Neither The Witcher 3 nor Gwent (which is based on the Unity engine, if I recall correctly?) support the OS, not sure about the status of GOG Galaxy, and I do not know if it was ever promised for Cyberpunk 2077. Fortunately, support for newer versions of Direct3D has been improved a lot in Wine lately, so it may still be possible to play the game even without a native port.

 

[Snowflakez]

Neither. I might play it on Linux when CDPR will release it for Linux proper. Today it's easier than ever for them, so they shouldn't mess it up like they did with the Witcher 3 Linux release.

What Witcher 3 Linux release?

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

What Witcher 3 Linux release?

One that CDPR were planning and even working on, until something got seriously messed up in 2016.

 

[Snowflakez]

One that CDPR were planning and even working on, until something got seriously messed up in 2016.

Oh, what a bummer. Sorry to hear that. I hope they launch 2077 for Linux, at least.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

and I do not know if it was ever promised for Cyberpunk 2077.

No, they never said anything about it, as far as I know. But all I'm saying is, that it's much easier for them to actually do it these days, so TW3 use case is not comparable.

 

[Snowflakez]

Sometimes I fear this world is becoming too cyberpunk for me to comfortably sit and play Cyberpunk 2077 in the near future.

I wonder how 2019 or 2020 will be, cause right now everything keeps falling apart around me.

Or maybe this is just me getting old, not everything is falling apart. Hopefully not.

Anyway. In a (very) positive scenario, guess I'll be playing on a console because the gpu mining doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon and I heard the RAM prices are also skyrocketing for whatever reason.

I just hope when Cyberpunk is released the gpu mining will be less profitable or nvidia/amd will create something for the miners, although I believe they won't be interested in mining bitcoins without the gaming gpus as a 'warranty'.

God, I hope these things won't destroy pc gaming. One of my few passions.

In the best scenario, if things get better, I'll certainly be playing on a better pc, because I don't think my humble (but loyal) GTX 770 will be able to handle the game (this pc right here gave me so many good memories, playing The Witcher 3 and the 2 expansions took me 1 year and 3 months, I would play a little bit every night after a long stressful day and after putting my son to sleep. And some 3-5 hours on weekends. Good times, no regrets, I needed the fun).

I've put this pc together and it never failed me (and the witcher 3 and other games looked superb). So I'll probably build another one if things get better.


So yeah: for me it will be PC, console or nothing - nothing at all -, depending on the economical scenario.

ok, I write too much. Let me move my lazy ass, I have work to do.





Hanging in there until the end, with a heavy head and a broken heart.

Hey, just thought I'd jump in and say EVGA's DIY configurator will let you get a card at a decent price.

I spent $750 for a fancy EVGA 1080 FTW2 card, a $120 case, and a $52 power supply. The discount was about $110 for buying the bundle, so the case was essentially a freebie.

It wasn't quite MSRP, but it's honestly as close as you can possibly get right now. Plus, the stock was guaranteed, I didn't have to wait around and setup stock notifications. Got two-day shipping, arrived on time, no delays.

If that doesn't strike your fancy, sign up for NowInStock Google Group notifications (here for 1080s and here for 1080 tis - 1070s, 1060s, etc. probably have similar groups). When I was still signed up for them, I got 10-15 notifications a day. The cards are usually available for 5-10 minutes after receiving a notification, so plenty of time to snag one. They aren't all MSRP, but I'd say 30-40% are, or at least very close (Within ~$100).

Those two are the best methods I've come across. Hope this helps, and good luck.

 

[walkingdarkly]

Sometimes I fear this world is becoming too cyberpunk for me to comfortably sit and play Cyberpunk 2077 in the near future.

For Cyberpunk as written by Mike Pondsmith, it's always been about 20 minutes into the future where the world went to crap one day in 1980's. Besides, I doubt there will come a day when the entirety of America will rise up and lynch every single criminal defense lawyer in existence and the US never collapsed in 1996 in our universe the way it did the one written by Mike.

And to add, I feel the opposite about our world, I feel our levels of technology, sans cellphones, has been somewhat stagnant over the last 20 years. Yeah we're making some major headway here and there but I still feel it's badly stagnated.

And why has phone tech exploded so fiercely in just the past 5 years let alone 10?

 

[Suhiira]

Yeah we're making some major headway here and there but I still feel it's badly stagnated.

Not really, we're just out of "world changing inventions" at the moment (the car, electricity, aircraft, etc.). PCs alone have come a LONG way in the 20 years (1998 I had a Pentium 1 with a huge 20 gig hard drive as I recall). And social media (Facebook, Twitter) has EXPLODED, personally I don't use either but I know many people spend most, if not all, of their free time (and some work time as well no doubt) on it.

Do I expect any "world changing inventions" anytime soon?
No.

Maybe a practical electric car or fusion reactors (eventually), but as major as both would be they're merely improvements on what we already have.

 

[walkingdarkly]

but I confess I'm not familiar with 2020's Universe. I should get familiar with it.

It's a very interesting history, if you could find a copy of the 2020 core rule book it has a nice time line about the events before that game "starts" in 2020 and it would give you a look into other parts of the world Mike created before 2077 finally comes out. Or there should be some wikis and links in these forums that can lead you to a place to learn the history. Like for an example from the core book timeline, the people in that world by 2018 are already sending missions to Jupiter because they had already landed on Mars by 2011.

 

[Sardukhar]

I've watched some interviews with Pondsmith and I like that guy but I confess I'm not familiar with 2020's Universe. I should get familiar with it.

It's OT, but here you go: http://www.shoestring-graphics.com/CP2020/timeline/

 

[Suhiira]

It's OT, but here you go: http://www.shoestring-graphics.com/CP2020/timeline/

I'll be REALLY curious to see what the do with CP2077.
Retcon a few things?
Just build on the CP2020 timeline?

 

[Sardukhar]

I'll be REALLY curious to see what the do with CP2077.
Retcon a few things?
Just build on the CP2020 timeline?

I think retcon some stuff and build on, yeah.

 

[walkingdarkly]

I think retcon some stuff and build on, yeah.

Now that's an interesting discussion to have in another thread.

As for the topic at hand, CDPR should totally try to make a handheld version or hand held spin-off of 2077

 

[Sardukhar]

Now that's an interesting discussion to have in another thread.

As for the topic at hand, CDPR should totally try to make a handheld version or hand held spin-off of 2077

Yeahno. Talk about a waste of resources and a field they don't need to start into. Much rather see more DLC before they go after the mobile market with CP.

 

[scottyusceaser]

I'll most likely be purchasing the game on PC and PS4/5.... reason for it is, If I'm home I'll play it on PC or laptop, If I'm away I'll play it on the PS4/laptop, If I have other games (exclusives) that I'm playing at the time on the PS4 and I'm away then I'll play it on that... and the PS5 because I'll obviously upgrade the PS4 to the PS5 and I'm also pretty sure they will Remaster CP2077 on the PS5.

It's CDPR I would happy spend that much money on their products without hesitation.