Cyberpunk resurgence

[wisielec]

Cyberpunk resurgence

What caused it?
Is it an undertow? Just before Bladerunner 2049 I noticed a steady build up that is givin fruit... Gits, Altered Carbon, Mute and few others in past months. I was wondering is it global or am I in my echo chamber fishing out all that is Cyberpunk? If its not, I expect to se more in coming months, now in post production they will start appearing in the summer or fall (do you already know of such projects?).
Is it somehow related to CP2077? Is the subject ripe? I think a similar thing went regarding Game of Thrones and its immense popularity ever since. Can we expect the same kind of trend and following after Cyberpunk gets more recognition with media? Look what happened with the Witcher franchise, after Netflix series I assume it will grow even bigger. If its good that is.

So, are we at the brink of new wave of cyberpunk? Its been too long, recumbent, dormant in its digital sleep I'd say. Is there a bright future after all?

The other thing that interest me is how will Cyberpunk incorporate other ideas like posthumanism or transhumanism in particular? What I want to see is for humanity to embrace the idea that we can be so much more. Coz currently we look down, eyes down in the mud. Elon Musk is not enough it seems as the offset to the masses thinking patterns.
Success? Or will CP stay more or less hermetic with high entry point? I think the real question is: are people ready for Cyberpunk?

This post may or may not be all over the place, my apologies

PS. Please let me know what other project you know of that will surface in the near future.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Cyberpunk resurgence.

What caused it?

It’s all part of CDPR’s super secret surprise marketing campaign to build awareness.

 

[Snowflakez]

What caused it?
Is it an undertow? Just before Bladerunner 2049 I noticed a steady build up that is givin fruit... Gits, Altered Carbon, Mute and few others in past months. I was wondering is it global or am I in my echo chamber fishing out all that is Cyberpunk? If its not, I expect to se more in coming months, now in post production they will start appearing in the summer or fall (do you already know of such projects?).
Is it somehow related to CP2077? Is the subject ripe? I think a similar thing went regarding Game of Thrones and its immense popularity ever since. Can we expect the same kind of trend and following after Cyberpunk gets more recognition with media? Look what happened with the Witcher franchise, after Netflix series I assume it will grow even bigger. If its good that is.

So, are we at the brink of new wave of cyberpunk? Its been too long, recumbent, dormant in its digital sleep I'd say. Is there a bright future after all?

The other thing that interest me is how will Cyberpunk incorporate other ideas like posthumanism or transhumanism in particular? What I want to see is for humanity to embrace the idea that we can be so much more. Coz currently we look down, eyes down in the mud. Elon Musk is not enough it seems as the offset to the masses thinking patterns.
Success? Or will CP stay more or less hermetic with high entry point? I think the real question is: are people ready for Cyberpunk?

This post may or may not be all over the place, my apologies

PS. Please let me know what other project you know of that will surface in the near future.

It's tough to say. I don't know how long a Netflix show takes to make, but by all accounts, its years - as such, Blade Runner's announcement shouldn't have impacted its (or Mute's, for that matter) release. That leads me to believe it could just be good timing.

Now, as far as games go, that's another story. Generally speaking, indie titles take much less time to make than big AAA games and movies, so if you are seeing a resurgence of Cyberpunk-themed games in the indie sphere, it could definitely be a "Reactive" thing. "Oh, hey, Cyberpunk is big again, let me make this game I've always wanted to make," that sort of thing.

I know of a few Cyberpunk games coming up, not sure about movies.

1. Cyberpunk 2077 (obviously)
2. The Last Night - The dev has rustled a few feathers in the "PC" community, so we'll see if it retains its vibe come release.
3. Copper Dreams (Cyberpunk RPG, looks isometric/classic style) - Same team that made the excellent Serpent in the Staglands
4. System Shock Remake (seems to be cancelled, or "put on hiatus," whatever the hell that means)
5. Blade Runner 9732
6. Some other Blade Runner game (official) that I just cannot remember for some reason. It's not just 9732's apartment tour, it's something more fleshed out and lengthy, with a story and shooting and stuff. Can't find it. :/

 

[animalfather]

people got tired of dungeons and dragons

 

[SigilFey]

Heh heh heh...cool post!

What caused it?

I think it's the normal cycle. Everything eventually comes full circle. I don't think there's any great connection between, say, the announcement of CP 2077 and a director deciding to write a sequel to Blade Runner. These things are always bouncing around in people's minds. Eventually, someone will drudge up a certain theme or motif again and do something with it. Even more rarely, but still regularly, that theme / motif catches people's attention and becomes "popular". Then, it will invariably fade, and come around again at some point in the future.

For example, I watched "fantasy" rise to popularity during the Conan the Barbarian through Willow era...then people started rolling their eyes at it...then it exploded again when the Lord of the Rings films were released...all of a sudden, people are getting quenya lettering tattoos and RPGs like Dragon Age are all the rage. (In fact, the fantasy rush is lasting quite a while this time. I'm fine with that!)

The other thing that interest me is how will Cyberpunk incorporate other ideas like posthumanism or transhumanism in particular? What I want to see is for humanity to embrace the idea that we can be so much more. Coz currently we look down, eyes down in the mud. Elon Musk is not enough it seems as the offset to the masses thinking patterns. Success? Or will CP stay more or less hermetic with high entry point? I think the real question is: are people ready for Cyberpunk?

I don't think that there will be any shortage of philosophies that apply to the world or the story lines in the game. Are people ready...? I think they're past due. I feel the gaming world (players) have grown more quickly than the industry could keep up with. Yes, there are a lot of younger people playing games, but the very first generation of "gamers" is only now beginning to approach "old age". There is now a maturity and expectation of what "gaming" means that has never existed before. It's no longer a distraction, like coin-op arcade style games were during the '70s and '80s. It's not a niche hobby like it was during early '90s, IBM / Amiga era. It's become a lifestyle element, much like literature or fashion. Many people somewhat define their character by the types of games they play (I hear little things like that all the time from my students).

Therefore, people are going to be looking for deeper meanings and ways to apply, learn, and grow from games. They are, already, very much experiences. Many, I would consider outright literature in their own right. So yes, if a game decides to go all the way to Inception levels of depth, I think people will just gobble it up that much more. The more complex, thought-provoking, and human that the gaming experience becomes, the more evolved the whole industry will be come. (But there will still be a place for "cartoons" and "action-flicks"! )

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

The past might be easier to be introduced to new audiences due to its simplistic and already familiar characteristics, but it gets boring because of its lack of innovation. Something that future like games/movies,etc have plenty of.

 

[Garrison72]

CDPR announced CP 2077 and the rest of media said bitches, we're hopping on this hype train.

 

[Neuronin]

I've noticed the same phenomenon. It's been interesting.

Cyberpunk has never been mainstream. This might be due to the inherent nature of the genre. It attracts wolves, not sheep.

Corporations don't like that. It's less predictable.

 

[wisielec]

Heh heh heh...cool post!

Thank you I hope it wasnt ironic ;P

I don't think that there will be any shortage of philosophies that apply to the world or the story lines in the game. Are people ready...? I think they're past due. I feel the gaming world (players) have grown more quickly than the industry could keep up with. Yes, there are a lot of younger people playing games, but the very first generation of "gamers" is only now beginning to approach "old age". There is now a maturity and expectation of what "gaming" means that has never existed before. It's no longer a distraction, like coin-op arcade style games were during the '70s and '80s. It's not a niche hobby like it was during early '90s, IBM / Amiga era. It's become a lifestyle element, much like literature or fashion. Many people somewhat define their character by the types of games they play (I hear little things like that all the time from my students).

Therefore, people are going to be looking for deeper meanings and ways to apply, learn, and grow from games. They are, already, very much experiences. Many, I would consider outright literature in their own right. So yes, if a game decides to go all the way to Inception levels of depth, I think people will just gobble it up that much more. The more complex, thought-provoking, and human that the gaming experience becomes, the more evolved the whole industry will be come. (But there will still be a place for "cartoons" and "action-flicks"! )

Oh, I really would like to see that in gaming. Really I would. I grew up on Neil Stephenson, Gibson, Henlein, Asimov, Lem, Dick to name a few.
I can word it now - its like gaming industry/corporate publishing powerhouses are keeping us back. I am ready and many like me too - we want more from the scene. I want to ponder on questions I never realised were there. I want the sci-fi to be great again (in mainstream that is) - provoke thought, question, reveal, make me feel uncomfortable, push my buttons, open my eyes to possibilities.
Somehow I sense CP2077 has this potential and it might be what I'm hoping for. Even if its with high entry point like I said earlier, more power to it! People might love it just for that. What you said about fans of gaming hitting certain age - it might be vital.
Cyberpunk 2077 might be a virus... or a Trojan Horse so plant itself in broad spectrum of social conscience... just, you know, at the edge of perception, fringe of mainstream media feed. "Easy" palatable but with intricate overlay and deeper meaning underlay.

Shit, my vocabulary is insufficient to convey all the things I want to talk about... I would need to learn +5000 more English words to do that it seems

While I'm at it - what hit home with me in Altered Carbon series was use of lingua, character often used their native tongue like Spanish or Japanese but the conversation was so smooth.... like language barrier wasn't an issue any more. That is a matter that can be expanded - lingua is a transfer for culture. If anybody can speak any language then we can begin to talk about real multicultural society..

... and now imagine language becomes a weapon in info-sphere when certain meaning of words is switched/distorted to corrupt message and understanding of events/facts to break human coding.

[1] [sign] therefore [1] am.

I've noticed the same phenomenon. It's been interesting.

Cyberpunk has never been mainstream. This might be due to the inherent nature of the genre. It attracts wolves, not sheep.

Corporations don't like that. It's less predictable.

I think this is a good observation, I agree.

 

[Snowflakez]

While I'm at it - what hit home with me in Altered Carbon series was use of lingua, character often used their native tongue like Spanish or Japanese but the conversation was so smooth.... like language barrier wasn't an issue any more. That is a matter that can be expanded - lingua is a transfer for culture. If anybody can speak any language then we can begin to talk about real multicultural society..

Very well said.

While I didn't like some of the actors on AC, I definitely agree about language. It was very nice to hear people speaking naturally, with no inhibitions.

I think, if society had some sort of "Translator chip" (we're talking hundreds of years into the future, probably), you could get rid of a lot of cultural seclusion. What would be even better is if this hypothetical chip could account for heavy accents in the same language, slang, etc. So, optionally, people could speak and be understood in relatively the same way. Of course, that could take away from individualism and what makes you "you," so some calibration would be in order to keep stuff understandable while allowing for individual variation.

Then again, maybe seclusion is partially a good thing. Being around people with the same background as you makes you more comfortable. Still, at the very least, it could make people as a whole less insular and more willing to meet and talk to people they would otherwise ignore based on first impressions ("Oh, this person speaks Russian, I'm not going to bother talking to them as I don't understand it...")

I know this idea of togetherness is more hippie than Cyberpunk, but hey - tech should bring some benefits, right?

 

[SigilFey]

Thank you I hope it wasnt ironic ;P

Not in the least! I really appreciate the view, and totally agree.

Oh, I really would like to see that in gaming. Really I would. I grew up on Neil Stephenson, Gibson, Henlein, Asimov, Lem, Dick to name a few...I want to ponder on questions I never realised were there.

I'm right there with you. A buddy gave me Stranger in a Strange Land and ordered me to read it, and I have to say that it revolutionized the way I thought about science fiction. I had sort of "tolerated" sci-fi up to that point. Since my first read of Stranger, I've totally transformed my opinion. To this day I try to work Clarke's Who's There? into my lessons -- and the kids invariably love it. I also adore Herbert, Simmons, and Modesitt, Jr. (Try Simmon's Illium and Odysseus if you haven't. Those were awesome! There's also little gem I found called Fallen Dragon by Hamilton that is one of my favorite novels of all time and needs to be made into a film! [Pauses. Fixes hair. Straightens clothes. ])

But I think the Bioware titles, Dark Souls, stories like SpecOps: The Line, The Last of Us, not to mention the entire Witcher series, proves that modern gamers do want the content to "go there".

The past might be easier to be introduced to new audiences due to its simplistic and already familiar characteristics, but it gets boring because of its lack of innovation. Something that future like games/movies,etc have plenty of.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree completely. I think dealing with the past is more prone to cliche (or just plain dealing with really tired themes), but it can still be magnificent if handled well. (Movies / novels like Spartacus, PT-109, Glory, Last of the Mohicans, Saving Private Ryan, Pillars of the Earth...)

Actually, my big problem was that I felt sci-fi tended to innovate too much. I could not stand things like Buck Rogers or the old Battlestar Galactica. I loved Star Wars, but I found Star Trek to be kind of corny. I was a huge fan of Enemy Mine, Blade Runner, and the new Battlestar Galactica series. I adored Dune (the novel)...but I was only so-so about the movie. Finally, I realized that the ones I liked were grittier, rounder, and generally more "down-to-earth" (strange as that may sound). But different strokes, too. (I never even considered the Warhammer 40K universe...until I learned some of the lore... Now, it's one of my mostest favoritest things ever. )

I've noticed the same phenomenon. It's been interesting. Cyberpunk has never been mainstream. This might be due to the inherent nature of the genre. It attracts wolves, not sheep.

I think this is a good observation, I agree.

Cyberpunk itself has always been sort of niche...and I doubt any existing culture that has grown up around it is really what deflected developers away from exploring it. (Most likely, it was CP's relatively minor popularity and the abundance of far more popular alternatives.) The cyberpunk motif, however, is very popular. I think that even if the game itself was never a major hit -- the art and aesthetics were enormous. (Few people will struggle to come up with a visual if I say "cyberpunk".) That's all I think is needed to hook a huge audience. So, other companies never decided to take advantage of it? Untapped resource as far as I'm concerned. More for CP 2077!

Corporations don't like that. It's less predictable.

Corporations are also notorious for holding something utterly amazing in their very hands and passing because they..."don't get it".

 

[Snowflakez]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree completely. I think dealing with the past is more prone to cliche (or just plain dealing with really tired themes), but it can still be magnificent if handled well. (Movies / novels like Spartacus, PT-109, Glory, Last of the Mohicans, Saving Private Ryan, Pillars of the Earth...)

Actually, my big problem was that I felt sci-fi tended to innovate too much. I could not stand things like Buck Rogers or the old Battlestar Galactica. I loved Star Wars, but I found Star Trek to be kind of corny. I was a huge fan of Enemy Mine, Blade Runner, and the new Battlestar Galactica series. I adored Dune (the novel)...but I was only so-so about the movie. Finally, I realized that the ones I liked were grittier, rounder, and generally more "down-to-earth" (strange as that may sound). But different strokes, too. (I never even considered the Warhammer 40K universe...until I learned some of the lore... Now, it's one of my mostest favoritest things ever. )

What do you teach, again? I feel like you've explained it before.

And, geez, Warhammer 40K is a horrific world. It is truly one of the most disturbing sci-fi worlds I've ever learned of. Warhammer Fantasy is pretty rough in some areas, too, but I find it much easier to stomach. Plus, aside from Cyberpunk, sci-fi does not interest me all that much, so fantasy worlds -- even, and perhaps especially, gritty ones -- always appeal to me more.

At the same time, 40K is fascinating. Humans are literally in a fight for survival. As in, if they do not become monsters themselves, the entire race will be wiped out, or worse.

Anyway, I completely agree about preferring more down-to-earth stories. I think the over-the-top (in a sense) stuff has its place, of course, but it's not really my preference. That's why I'm so interested in 2077. It has so much potential. If it fails, it will be a pretty big blow to the gaming industry's chances at really taking a crack at this genre, so I hope CDPR pulls it off.

 

[SigilFey]

What do you teach, again? I feel like you've explained it before.

Taught 22 years of Theatre Arts and English. Then, as usual, the county's money "ran out". Now, I work as little more than a substitute in practice. It's nice, in it's own way. No more after school duties -- ever!

And, geez, Warhammer 40K is a horrific world. It is truly one of the most disturbing sci-fi worlds I've ever learned of. Warhammer Fantasy is pretty rough in some areas, too, but I find it much easier to stomach. Plus, aside from Cyberpunk, sci-fi does not interest me all that much, so fantasy worlds -- even, and perhaps especially, gritty ones -- always appeal to me more.

I always thought the art was cool, but so over-the-top. Then, friend got me to play some of the table-top at a geek store, and I was blown away. When I learned about what Space Marines were, how they were made, etc. I was really interested. When I learned about the history of mankind, more about the "Immortal Emperor", and about the Eldar had creating Warp Gods, I was sort of won over. It's truly a friggin' awesome universe.

There's something "raw" and almost "ad-libbed" about that style of story (and stuff like Game of Thrones, The Witcher, the Battlestar remake) whether sci-fi or fantasy that captures an honestly human aspect at its core, then delivers it in a way that's purely human and flawed. I love how visual design in GoT, especially, is gorgeous and ugly at the same time. I would definitely imagine CP 2077 will achieve something similar.

 

[wisielec]

Schismatrix [Bruce Sterling] and Accelerando [Charles Stross] are worthy books touching on cyberpunk in a very different way than Neuromancer or Snow Crash. Which all I admire. I wonder if such progressive themes will be present in CP2077. I wish.

I fear one thing though. The plethora of my ideas of what I would like to see in a game might overshadow of what actually will be in the game. When you dream big you might wake up to the plain reality - system shock.

I digress.

 

[wisielec]

Oh and another thing I would like to add - in my opinion and perspective, which is parallel to some essay I red but unfortunately can remember what it was or by whom ( I hope I used it right, lol).
Sci fi is the epitome of human writing. Its the single-most high tier of writing.
It asks the 'ever' questions and surges in new ideas of who we were, are, or will be as a humankind.
It deals with the essence of "why we are here, where do we come from and where are we heading". Eternal fascination with our origin, how language and abstract thought came to be--
-- imagine the FUCKING breakthrough of human psyche when we decided that we will make abstract, metaphorical (dammit I'm missing one word here to describe the thought) sacrifices to the gods... not literal as it were, the leap in abstract thinking.... and I hope the same goes for us right now. We might be at the edge of unknown.

Or maybe I'm just optimistically delusional :dead:

 

[Suhiira]

Sci fi is the epitome of human writing. Its the single-most high tier of writing.
It asks the 'ever' questions and surges in new ideas of who we were, are, or will be as a humankind.
It deals with the essence of "why we are here, where do we come from and where are we heading".

The key here is to separate the the Science FICTION from the Science FANTASY.

 

[Snowflakez]

Oh and another thing I would like to add - in my opinion and perspective, which is parallel to some essay I red but unfortunately can remember what it was or by whom ( I hope I used it right, lol).
Sci fi is the epitome of human writing. Its the single-most high tier of writing.
It asks the 'ever' questions and surges in new ideas of who we were, are, or will be as a humankind.
It deals with the essence of "why we are here, where do we come from and where are we heading". Eternal fascination with our origin, how language and abstract thought came to be--
-- imagine the FUCKING breakthrough of human psyche when we decided that we will make abstract, metaphorical (dammit I'm missing one word here to describe the thought) sacrifices to the gods... not literal as it were, the leap in abstract thinking.... and I hope the same goes for us right now. We might be at the edge of unknown.

Or maybe I'm just optimistically delusional :dead:

I do think sci-fi is one of the better forms of entertainment (writing, games, etc.) but I don't think it's the best.

Sci-fi, as a genre, keeps us looking forward. Space exploration, planetary expeditions and meeting new species and races that we've never met before.

Fantasy, as a genre, often (but not always) has us look back and reflect. Or, it's just for fun, to tell human stories in a different context. There doesn't always need to be a "message." I find fantasy is often more prone to whimsy, it's often the place you go when you want to retreat from all the BS of the world.

Cyberpunk naturally fits into sci-fi, but I it isn't as far future as sci-fi, meaning it's a much better picture of what "could be" if the worst elements of humanity take over.

Mega-corps gaining virtually absolute power and authority, many people completely losing their empathy for others... You could argue that the world (at least the US) is already heading in the latter's direction.

If you just take a look at social media, people lose their jobs because of stupid things they say, largely because massive groups of people attack them online until the company they work for is forced to address the backlash. This is not a political thing, it's just a human thing that I think comes from being so connected with everybody and everything, literally 24/7 in some people's cases. It is only natural for people who grow up with that to lose some of that human-to-human connection. Honestly, I think there's a few people out there who now spend more time interacting with people online than they will ever interact with people in person.

I think Cyberpunk represents that, it's almost a cautionary medium, even if it doesn't necessarily try to be. It's like the genre itself is saying, "look, people, if you keep going like this, this is what you have to look forward to."

 

[SigilFey]

Sci fi is the epitome of human writing. Its the single-most high tier of writing.

I agree with everything except for this part. Obviously, I'm responding more toward the writer of the essay in question, but I think it serves little purpose to try to create a "hierarchy" of human achievement / ability. Any form of expression (writing, speaking, visual arts, music, dance, photography, architecture...) has the potential to be equally meaningful. And frankly, all written and spoken language is clunky and unclear as @#$%. End result is, it's impossible to foresee exactly how meaningful any venture will be in the uttermost end of ends. Nor even what it will inevitably mean. e.g. I doubt the people who built the first printing presses could ever have imagined that it would create such a strong focus on free-flow of information that the internet would one day be the result, nor did the first pioneers on the internet imagine that social media would someday be the inception for a true, global culture while simultaneously marring people's actual, inter-personal skills. (Actually, around the time that printing presses were starting to become commonplace...fictional stories were thought to rot your brain. All the young folk...wasting their lives...reading all the time. What was the world coming to? ...)

As for what sci-fi is and what it can achieve in terms of expanding human thought, absolutely. I also agree with Snowflakez's assessment of fantasy being far more reflective and intimate. I wish more stories would merge sci-fi and fantasy. We should create a whole new genre and call it "FantaSci".

Mega-corps gaining virtually absolute power and authority, many people completely losing their empathy for others... You could argue that the world (at least the US) is already heading in the latter's direction.

...there's a few people out there who now spend more time interacting with people online than they will ever interact with people in person.

I think Cyberpunk represents that, it's almost a cautionary medium, even if it doesn't necessarily try to be. It's like the genre itself is saying, "look, people, if you keep going like this, this is what you have to look forward to."

These would be very constructive messages to put forth. I think it's clear that there are already super-syndicates that have far too much power in the world today. There are individual corporations that can literally make or break entire countries or overpower governments. And with the hard evidence that electronic currency, does, in fact, work...these businesses can trade more and faster than ever before. This puts power in the hands of a very few who actually get to cilck "Buy" or "Sell" at the opportune moment, and people's lives can literally be traded away in nanoseconds. I really don't have much faith in humanity to handle it responsibly...at least, not at the beginning.

All great stuff for future games to explore. The more prevalent the idea is in people's minds through games, books, films, and other media, the more readily they'll be able to recognize it in real life and act intelligently with it.

 

[wisielec]

... you know, I wish Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote sci-fi... I couldnt get through the reality of his books (putting me off) but I pretty much sank in the concepts of his works.... just a side note here

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

The key here is to separate the the Science FICTION from the Science FANTASY.

What are the chances of CDPR making Cyberpunk 2077 with Science Fantasy elements? You know they might implement new stuff.