What's the worst thing that can happen during CDPR's E3 presentation?

[kofeiiniturpa]

As for the vehicle thing, Kofe's suggestion was a highway between areas. I'd have to dig up his exact suggestion, but I was basically arguing for full freedom of movement around the city provided the player has the cash to pay for a high-end flying vehicle, whereas he was arguing for the highway thing. You could move around on the highway, but as I understood it it was essentially a minigame.

It was intended to be an option to those who'd demand driving a vehicle manually by themselves, not restricting movement around the city (between nor within playable areas).

They didn't want a large vibrant sprawling city, they wanted tiny little chunks that then were broken up by loading taxis.

I still think that should be the case. Elsewise it'll just be yet another GTA clone with a miniature version of Night City even if the game itself seems large, and what ever level of huge it'll be, all you really have is a huge stage prop city you can do very little with and in except look at, move through and bump into. That's not what I want from Cyberpunk, I want PnP-style interactivity and systems to play with and try out with the games various props and objects, not a visually spectacular but uninteractive and boring city simulation I can only drive around in and look at (and possibly get a couple of chuckles watching the AI bots flailing).

 

[Snowflakez]

It was intended to be an option to those who'd demand driving a vehicle manually by themselves, not restricting movement around the city (between nor within playable areas).



I still think that should be the case. Elsewise it'll just be yet another GTA clone with a miniature version of Night City even if the game itself seems large, and what ever level of huge it'll be, all you really have is a huge stage prop city you can do very little with and in except look at, move through and bump into. That's not what I want from Cyberpunk, I want PnP-style interactivity and systems to play with and try out with the games various props and objects, not a visually spectacular but uninteractive and boring city simulation I can only drive around in and look at (and possibly get a couple of chuckles watching the AI bots flailing).

Right, that was it. Thanks.

Also, I don't think it's impossible to have a big sprawling city that also has the occasional loading screen.

There's this really bizarre stigma against loading screens, and I just don't get it. In fact, we've all had a lengthy discussion about them before. They don't do any harm - so what if you have to wait a couple extra minutes? As long as you aren't seeing them every 5 minutes, I don't think there's an issue. They likely make things easier from a game design perspective - the whole city doesn't need to load in, just chunks of it at a time.

Plus, it's an excuse to make more diverse environments, even within the city. But that may just be because I've been playing games for a while and have kinda come to like them.

For people who absolutely hate the idea of sitting and reading a few lore tidbits or game tips during a loading screen, CDPR could even do what The Sims 3 did and make it a minigame that gives in-game rewards (slight ones, of course).

Remember that idea we discussed a while back, Kofe, where players could access apartment buildings via an old DOS-like interface, and essentially have a mini-choose-your-own-adventure thing? That might be a fun little goof to have during loading screens, optional of course.

 

[walkingdarkly]

QUOTE=Snowflakez;n10821681]There's this really bizarre stigma against loading screens,[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's bizarre or a stigma to hate and despise loading screens and want them gone. I started playing games in 1986 with an old Atari 2600 and have stayed gaming since then. And going from no loading screens for nearly 10 years to all sudden extremely long loading screens, hello Playstation 1. And I still hate loading screens because they tend to be too long and I hate sitting there wasting time when I could be playing my game. There are other ways to do loading besides a screen, the game Jak and Daxter didn't have loading screens but if you went to fast the game would make your character trip and fall over. Though with the likes of certain MMOs and even the Grand Theft Auto series, they don't have many loading screens, and with GTA you only get one real loading screen but you don't see any as you drive around as the game loads around you, the same with MMOs, and they to have diverse environments as well without needing loading screens. This is 2018, there should be as few loading screens as possible, even better the only loading screen should be when you first boot up the game, I think the game should not be chopped up or sectioned off, that sounds too limiting

lso, I don't think it's impossible to have a big sprawling city that also has the occasional loading screen.

Grand Theft Auto Series and if you hate that the Saint Rows Series says other wise, Grand Theft Auto Online as the most recent example to use, big sprawling city and countryside with only 1 major loading screen. It is possible and it has been done before even back in the early Playstation 1 days.

 

[Snowflakez]

Getting off topic. I'll put it in spoilers below.

But, to bring things back around to the E3 thing, I'd be disappointed if CDPR showed off a world that was open for the sake of being open, for no other reason than to "Be big" and "Attract mainstream attention," in the vein of an Ubisoft game.

If you want a big world, it should offer players a lot to do throughout. Loading screens can and probably have helped with that design-wise in the past.

Spoiler

snip

I think you misread what I said. I said I don't think it's impossible (as in, I think it's very possible) to have a wide open world with loading screens. Loading screens or the lack thereof means very little to me. TW3 was partitioned, it worked out great. So it doesn't seem very accurate to say it couldn't be done, because it has been done on several occasions.

Also, I do think there's some technical hurdles to consider here. GTA V, for all of the things it does right, is very limited as far as world interaction goes. Yes, you can have fun with physics and run people over and whatnot, but there's not much in the way of "RPG Systems" at play. Citizens don't have homes (not saying Cyberpunk will necessarily have it either), there aren't really any AI schedules of note. There aren't varied enemy types with different behaviors to worry about.

There also isn't behind-the-scenes dice-rolling for damage, hits, or anything like that, as far as I know. All of this is sort of typical for any RPG, even modern ones like Skyrim or TW3. I'm not at all saying it's impossible to make a big RPG world without loading screens, just that it might possibly be easier to do it with them, even if they're relatively infrequent (TW3).

This is 2018, there should be as few loading screens as possible, even better the only loading screen should be when you first boot up the game

Why?

It's OK if you don't like loading screens. But I do, and I think they can be beneficial from a design perspective. I think that viewpoint is just as valid as any other.

EDIT: Huh, I didn't notice I changed my avatar. kofeiiniturpa

 

[sv3672]

Partitioning the world made sense in TW3 for lore reasons, because the regions are at great distances from each other. Even with the compressed map scale, it would take a very long time to ride from Toussaint to Kaer Morhen, for example. But within each region, there are no loading screens at all, and the Velen/Novigrad hub on its own is about as large as Skyrim. I do not know if the city will be partitioned in CP2077, and if yes, then how (the only information we have is the "two sandbox environments" point on that old poster, whatever it means), but I can see CDPR having the ambitions to create a huge, sprawling and seamless city environment. GTA V is not really an RPG, so the lack of RPG systems or interaction in the game is not necessarily related to the map design. Except that making each NPC in a city that is significantly larger than those in Elder Scrolls a unique character (with a name, home, family, etc.) would be an enormous undertaking, even in Novigrad the majority of people are random pedestrians.

I would guess the game will probably try to avoid loading screens on entering buildings, although that does pose a technical challenge with large and complex interiors, for example a skyscraper that you can see into from the streets.

I do not think the game will be a "GTA clone" more than The Witcher 3 is a "Skyrim clone", by the way, some inspiration could be taken from how the world is designed, it would not be surprising with the level of commercial and critical success GTA V achieved, but Cyberpunk 2077 is still a CDPR title, it will follow their philosophy in quest design, story, RPG elements, and other aspects.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Remember that idea we discussed a while back, Kofe, where players could access apartment buildings via an old DOS-like interface, and essentially have a mini-choose-your-own-adventure thing?

Yeah, I do. And I still think something like that should be implemented to breath life to the otherwise uninteractive buildings that will no doubt littler majority of the gamespace (you can't enter each physically and even if you could, you can't expect each to provide something worth entering... the kind of abstraction this was going for would allow the player the chance to try and enter any building - with comparatively little design effort - with each being different every playthrough).

Anyway, loadingscreen minigames... I suppose something network gambling or information search minigames would be something to consider. Something that's actually beneficial to gameplay. Kinda like abstracting the trip during the load to represent that some stuff was done there on top of moving forward... if the player wants to engage such activities.

 

[SigilFey]

Ooo -- ooo!!! (Clears throat.)

Hey, all! Just a reminder to stay on topic. Things are starting to peel off into gameplay territory again. Let's stay focused on "CDPR at E3".

(Be-bops around the space all proud of himself. [Was considering a response to Kofeii's last post before catching himself. ])

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

[Was considering a response to Kofeii's last post before catching himself. ]

Just before going back on topic.... Humor me, were you leaning more towards a) disagreement or b) agreement, or c) just wondering what I was blabbering about?

 

[SigilFey]

Just before going back on topic.... Humor me, were you leaning more towards a) disagreement or b) agreement, or c) just wondering what I was blabbering about?

Spoiler: In one sentence:

I was going to refer to the conversation we had a while back, about a possible mini-game to create "something behind every door" being a worthwhile consideration, then make a general argument about waiting to see what E3 holds before speculating further.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Spoiler: In one sentence:

I was going to refer to the conversation we had a while back, about a possible mini-game to create "something behind every door" being a worthwhile consideration, then make a general argument about waiting to see what E3 holds before speculating further.

Reasonable enough.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

56 DAYS YOU SONS OF BITCHES

 

[SigilFey]

56 DAYS YOU SONS OF BITCHES

Volume.

 

[Snowflakez]

56 DAYS YOU SONS OF BITCHES

55 days, not 56. Gosh, Lis.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

55 days, not 56. Gosh, Lis.

55 DAYS UNTIL E3
i can't believe it

 

[Riven-Twain]

Volume.

Hmm. The dial appears to turn in only one direction.

 

[Suhiira]

Hmm. The dial appears to turn in only one direction.

Not a married man are you Riv?
You should know better then to tell a woman to quiet down.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Not a married man are you Riv?

Not I (which is likely a mercy to ladies).

You should know better then to tell a woman to quiet down.

Heh. Nay, I've no objection to enthusiasm. Old Sigi there was the one who expressed an interest in the audio level.

And now, back to premonitions of conventional meteorological collisions.

 

[Razrback16]

E3 is just so far away...

 

[Snowflakez]

E3 is just so far away...

54 days ain't that bad. When Lis started counting it was 110 or so, if I remember correctly.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

E3 is just so far away...

Nah. Time flies.

It doesn't feel like it's all that long when the wait started, and that's five years ago already. Patience.