CRIME AND THE CITY.... crime as a dynamic element...

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CRIME AND THE CITY.... crime as a dynamic element...

We have touched on this before, the idea of random crimes occuring.... cyberpsycho rampages, gang wars erupting at turf borders...

But what about beyond that?

Crime.... not the crimes you commit, but the crimes committed by everyone else.

Saints row did it a little, in that occasionally you would see someone hold up a store, RDR had stage coach robberies and escaped cons and the like... and sleeping dogs had purse snatchers... but it was all just random hooey that could happen anywhere really...

Imagine if you will, Night City... The gleaming corporate center, where street crime is all but unheard of, because of the high police and corporate security... But occasionally, even there someone gets brass balls and decides to rob a bank, or a corporate goes cyberpsycho.

But as you move away from that center, crime takes on a different dynamic... the more rundown the area, the more crimes randomly occur.

Redge mentioned seeing someone in a new Audi, and jacking it, if the boosters don't beat him to it. And I think that should actually be a thing.

In the corporate zone, the suburbsm or the relatively nicer areas of town, this won't really be an issue, but as you get into the older areas, the more run down areas, crime increases. There are random muggings, car jackings, and street crime. You see guys tagging buildings, the gangs push around anyone they see as a target...

When you get to the combat zone, crime is everywhere...

And its relative... a shitty car likely isn't going to get jacked, but when that badass ride rolling down the street, it gets peoples attention.... loiter too long and someone takes it.

Walk down the street in a poorer neighborhood, you may see someone getting mugged, in the Zone, you may see an entire gang terrorizing the streets. Guys doing drugs openly on the stoops of their building... alleys where if you enter, you may not leave alive,.... when you walk buy you can look down and see people getting assaulted.

This is what the other games get wrong.... they set up the city as this grim and gritty place, they talk about how dangerous the other gangs are.... but really, the only one who ever commits any crime is you.... even the other gangs really seem to exist to fuck with you, or get fucked by you...

Could something like this be implemented... should it?
 
For someplace like Night City, background NPC happenings like this is an absolute MUST, imo.

Certain areas of the city should absolutely have a higher chance of something unpleasant jumping off randomly. If you wear the wrong colors in the wrong 'hood, you should expect to get hassled, or worse. Rival gang factions should get into it with each other on sight. Random hoodrats should run in to the liquor store or CHOOH2 station (that's "gas station" to you newbies) and try to hold it up.

We should have the option of being saviors, abetters, or idle witnesses to city life unfolding around us.
 
Could something like this be implemented... should it?

I think it can be and it should be implemented. It would certainly add more realism.

For someplace like Night City, background NPC happenings like this is an absolute MUST, imo.

We should have the option of being saviors, abetters, or idle witnesses to city life unfolding around us.

This. Night City should be alive and we should be able to effect whats happening around us. There should be random events like murders, suicides, thefts and we should be able to do something about it.
 
This. Night City should be alive and we should be able to effect whats happening around us. There should be random events like murders, suicides, thefts and we should be able to do something about it.

 
If you are interested, EvE Online has a whole community dedicated to organized crime. Give it a look
LOL, that's the whole EVE community!

I agree that crime should be in. Not just petty stuff we pull off. We should be able to lead the lives of crimelords, should we wish it.
 
This is what the other games get wrong.... they set up the city as this grim and gritty place, they talk about how dangerous the other gangs are.... but really, the only one who ever commits any crime is you.... even the other gangs really seem to exist to fuck with you, or get fucked by you...

I was thinking that once in a while we could maybe see a bunch of windows in a tower exploding, then seeing a group of criminals flee the scene with or without their booty. This might overshadow the "badassity" (or is it "badassery"?) of the player's actions, and even screw with his game (imagine walking by and suddenly a random explosion kills you/sends you to the hospital... wait, wouldn't it be funnier? and if it isn't maybe have this explosion take place in levels players wouldn't normally -although could- walk by?). It would also be cool to have flying corporate drones (cyberforms?) destroy an apartment at random and leave the scene (wasn't that what supposedly happened to Count Zero's mom?).

The crime happening in Night City could also have a special place in the games of players who chose a non-aggression based role. It's always easy to walk a dark alley not fearing muggers because you can obliterate them with your Solo's cyberweapons, but what if your only defence is a pepper spray?
 
I was thinking that once in a while we could maybe see a bunch of windows in a tower exploding, then seeing a group of criminals flee the scene with or without their booty. This might overshadow the "badassity" (or is it "badassery"?) of the player's actions, and even screw with his game (imagine walking by and suddenly a random explosion kills you/sends you to the hospital... wait, wouldn't it be funnier? and if it isn't maybe have this explosion take place in levels players wouldn't normally -although could- walk by?). It would also be cool to have flying corporate drones (cyberforms?) destroy an apartment at random and leave the scene (wasn't that what supposedly happened to Count Zero's mom?).

The crime happening in Night City could also have a special place in the games of players who chose a non-aggression based role. It's always easy to walk a dark alley not fearing muggers because you can obliterate them with your Solo's cyberweapons, but what if your only defence is a pepper spray?
Not to mention that Cops will have plenty of work to do.

Also, If your being pursued, the authorities may become distracted and give up the chase if an easier or higher profile opportunity presents itself...
 
It should be implemented to the best of the RED engine's ability, yes. I guess the question is how much of it is scripted vs. random AI events.
 
Yeah, no they can't. There are limits. Generally a trade-off in terms of time-money-results.

Don't expect miracles. Especially since we haven't played even the Witcher 3 yet.
 
Yeah, no they can't. There are limits. Generally a trade-off in terms of time-money-results.

Don't expect miracles. Especially since we haven't played even the Witcher 3 yet.
If 2077 is going to be a true sandbox, then reandom events will be crucial to it's success. Hell, random elements in the storyline would be fantastic, just so you never play the same game twice. Imagine, an RPG that didn't have a walkthrough online within a week of release!

Oh, ah while i'm thinking about it. How viable do you think it would be for gangs to gain and lose territory over time in the game? As well as corps losing and gaining power and influence?
Imagine if you character decides to help one specific corp and fight's a guerilla war against the others. Could his efforts help topple some? Could our protaganist become a gangland kingpin?
 
If 2077 is going to be a true sandbox, then reandom events will be crucial to it's success. Hell, random elements in the storyline would be fantastic, just so you never play the same game twice. Imagine, an RPG that didn't have a walkthrough online within a week of release!

Oh, ah while i'm thinking about it. How viable do you think it would be for gangs to gain and lose territory over time in the game? As well as corps losing and gaining power and influence?

Gangs are a major part of the game, and I would very much like to be able to have an effect on their size and influence. I do not think we should be able to elimate them entirely, at least for any canon gangs that are represented, because that really kinda kills the fun.... but gaining and losing territory, works for me.... hell them doing that against each other as a random story element, one that you can influence, but will happen regardless, would be awesome....

Imagine if you character decides to help one specific corp and fight's a guerilla war against the others. Could his efforts help topple some?

Again, I would rather this not happen. At least not with the larger corporations.... one man should not be able to bring down a corporation... however smaller corps, or coporations made up entirely for the game, destroying those or raising those up to large scale status should be the ultimate goal for anyone playing the corporate class.

Could our protaganist become a gangland kingpin?

This should be the end goal for anyone playing a fixer... to have their own gang, or organized crime syndicate underneath them.
 
If Rockstar could implement random muggings back in GTA 3, Vice City and random cops chasing crooks in San Andreas.
CDPR should have no problem implementing such things.
And of course all the going ons in GTA4 is something to look at.
 
Gangs are a major part of the game, and I would very much like to be able to have an effect on their size and influence. I do not think we should be able to elimate them entirely, at least for any canon gangs that are represented, because that really kinda kills the fun.... but gaining and losing territory, works for me.... hell them doing that against each other as a random story element, one that you can influence, but will happen regardless, would be awesome....
Thats where I was heading for. Anything to make every playthrough more random. I never want the same things to happen twice in any playthrough of 2077. I always want to be on my toes.

Again, I would rather this not happen. At least not with the larger corporations.... one man should not be able to bring down a corporation... however smaller corps, or coporations made up entirely for the game, destroying those or raising those up to large scale status should be the ultimate goal for anyone playing the corporate class.
I didn't mean the mega corps. But I think we should be able to loosen their foothold in the city itself. We could never take down a whole megacorp, but we can disgrace them and shut down their local operation.

This should be the end goal for anyone playing a fixer... to have their own gang, or organized crime syndicate underneath them.
I think so for some corporates too. But I would like to see any and all goals attainable by all classes. I just feel some should be easier or harder depending on your skillset. But then I am a fan of the same fluid role principles you favour.
 
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