kofeiiniturpa;n9302221 said:
Of course. There's always something, and that's a good thing. There's something to talk about and perhaps even learn, constant backpatting is the worst form of discussion.
I don't remember any drastic disagreements, though. But you might've not just made them known yet.
It's mostly some minor differences in opinion on certain aspects... none that I would be able to right now come up with and point at, since my memory can be a bit... spotty... with stuff like that. XD Basicly, we are in the same "tree" generally, but which if the branches we prefer to keep and/or change and/or remove, and/or value the most, might differ a bit... and some difference of opinion on the leaves as well when it comes to maybe shape and colouring and such... if that analogy makes any sence to you at all... XD
And I don't always comment on it since either I feel it is just such a minor difference that it might not matter... or it's something which is compleatly down to personal opinion to such a point that it could potentually be close to useless to have a debate about it (more then
"I like this, because... etc" with a reply if
"Ah I see... well I like this instead because... etc"... XD )... or because I really did not feel like writing a post at that time... and/or because I knew my post would at that time become such a huge thing, like they almost always are, that I stopped my self befor I started writing... which does not always work... I have had occations where I suddently realized it was 10 hours later and I was still working on the same damn post... at which point I will often just go
"Nope..." and close down my internet browser flushing down a large amount of hours worth of "work"... XD
I don't think you guys ever get to see more then somewhere around 1/3rd to 2/3rds of all the posts I have ever writen on this forum... due to me eventually coming to the conclusion that I really did not feel like continuing trying to tamper with the post til it was done... or felt that what I had writen was close to useless or something... or felt that I had goten so bogged down that I feel it would be too difficult to untangle it, and/or did not feel like essentually start over from the beginning again (which does happen from time to time as well). What you do get to see, atleast when it comes to the big posts, are the ones which manages to slip through. XD
Rawls;n9302641 said:
I've never said mechanics aren't important. I said for RPGs it is best to first develop the story and narrative design then focus on the gameplay design. Choices and narrative are the center of an RPG. Also, the greater point is that even in Grand Strategy (which as you say is inherently more mechanic based), the game I enjoy the most is centered around the personal stories of one family and their story.
Did not mean to imply that you did not think it was importent.
I just feel you could just as easy start at the other end though... where making the game fun to play first, and then add a good story on top of that, is an equaly viable option.
If anything, this is how I prefer it to be... because then you atleast make sure that the game is fun to play during the majority of the game... seeing as the majority of the gametime you spend in most RPG's out there do not involve you watching and/or interacting with the story... the majority of most RPG's out there involves you spending time with the gameplay and mechanics (be it combat, or using skills to do stuff, or what ever).
And as such, I am much more likely to stop playing a game due to bad or uninteresting gameplay and mechanics, then I am due to a bad or uninspired story. And that is based just on the sheer fact that you will spend a lot more time with the gameplay then you ever will on the actual story in most RPG's... have not even take into account yet that I tend to prefer that they make sure the gameplay and mechanics are good befor the story. When I do take that into account, then it is almost inevitable that I would stop playing such a game.
If I am going to spend 100-200+ hours on a game (or any amount of time really, even if it is only 10 hours or less), then I want the vast majority of that to be on something I enjoy doing, and maybe more impostently don't get tired of doing either for that matter. And if the only thing about that game that I enjoy is the story? Then I would probably be lucky if I enjoyed.... I don't know... 10-20 % of the game? Which would be nowhere near the "vast majority" of the game.
And then it would not matter what the story would be either. Like I have said, the Mass Effect is, together with some several Final Fantasy games, my alltime favorit games out there... and a large part of that reason is due to the story... but if that story had been in a game where I really did not enjoy the gameplay and mechanics of it, or if the gameplay of Mass Effect it's self had been really bad then I would have never even finished Mass Effect 1.
Rawls;n9302641 said:
Also, I don't think being able to play something a lot is equal to thinking it is the best. I would put the ME Trilogy and TW3 ahead of CKII on my all time list ... even though I've played CKII more. Replay-ability is important, but it isn't everything.
And nore have I said that. I have after all pointed to the sheer fact that most of my top favorit games of all time tends to be games which where heavy on the story, very story driven and all. But that does not mean that story is my favorit element of games... my favorit elements of games comes down to gameplay and game mechanics. The reason a game like Mass Effect places it's self so high is based on the combined score between everything in them... where each part of your score of the game is dedicated to one or a few aspects of the game... so no wonder then that a game like XCOM places it self well over 15-20 possitions further down my favorit games lists then something like Mass Effect does... because the story in XCOM is only there to give the player a gental push towards what they need to do, save earth from aliens... and a such that game is already at a disadvantage based on the sheer fact that it probably will not score high on the story side of it.
Actually... if I where to remove the story part of Mass Effect... and just compare it's gameplay and mechanics against other games... like let's say Fallout 2... then Mass Effect would lose... ME would actually lose against most games on my top lists if only it's gameplay and mechanics was a factor in how well it scored with me... ME1 to me probably is somewhere around a 6-7 in gameplay and mechanics for me, and ME2 and 3 (and Andromeda) are somewhere in the range of a 7-8 for me... where as Fallout 2's gameplay and mechanics are up at a 9 for me... I would say that Fallout Tactics is actually at a 10 here for me (and FOT is on par with games like UFO: Enemy Unknown and XCOM in this aspect as well).
The story of a game can make me interested in checking out a game. Where as gameplay and game mechanics makes me want to play a game, AND keep playing a game. There is a difference after all. Although... more so then anything it is a combination of the various aspects, story, gameplay and mechanics, genre, and sometimes the look of the game as well. But gameplay and game mechanics almost always wins out over the others for me... I mean heck, I almost bought a boxing game some 15-20 years ago because I found out that you could create your own boxer, and that he could get better at certain aspect of boxing... that's how powerful gameplay and game mechanics can be for me... that is why Dawn of War 2 is my favorit Dawn of War game, because it had the RPG like types of mechanics in it. And that is why XCOM is essentually my goto game at almost any given time currently, because the gameplay and game mechanics are so strong, and good, and compleatly... compleatly wonderful... XD
When I first started to see news about Mass Effect, with it's story and all, I felt
"Yeah... that might be interesting, I'll check it out"... where as as soon as information came out about XCOM: Enemy Unknown my instant reaction was
"OH HELL YEAH! This I GOT to play!" (that was atleast how it went down in my mind... I am not the kind of person who has verbal outbursts like that... I am a very held back person with stuff like that... XD )... there was no if's or but's about it, as there was with Mass Effect.
