NPC's and Death

[Azriel7]

NPC's and Death

So, one thing that I was wondering is, will NPC's be killable(GTA/SKYRIM) or be untouchable like in the witcher? This annoyed the hell out of me in the witcher games, give us free will to do what we want, just have some punishment system where if you are seen/caught in the act the police will look for you, if the crime is big enough their might even be a reward and your face appears on digital screens and spam to peoples computer systems. You could wait it out, or maybe hack the computer network (or hire a hacker) to take you out of the system.

 

[Suhiira]

It's part of the "babysit the player" culture that's become prominent in most newer games.

In the past if you killed an essential NPC you missed out on, or broke something. But too many players cry when their own actions make them miss out on something, thus essential, unkillable, NPCs. Don't blame the developers ... blame your fellow gamers.

 

[lord_blex]

a normal witcher wouldn't just kill random people. but I think in Cyberpunk you should definitely be able to.

but that raises the question of what you do with plot-critical NPCs. are they immune to damage? go down and not die? how many backup-characters/storylines do you have if they can die? do you just hide the backup-character like New Vegas? or do you go full Morrowind and let the player fail the main quest?
them being completely immune while others not is a bit immersion breaking, but it's a decent compromise. writing around every important character would be hard, or depending on the story it may just be impossible. and everything else is very inelegant.

and I also remember a thread here about killing kids, which is also a non-trivial subject for different (obvious) reasons.

 

[Azriel7]

I was mainly talking about non essential NPC's. That was the thing bugging me in the witcher games. Sure, it is not something a witcher would DO, but It was incredibly frustrating that control was ripped away from me. As for important NPC's. Have it where they do not die, just get knocked out or something. Maybe have a grading system based on how important they are. Low level mission characters CAN be killed, but more important characters can't or maybe do something like morrowind with a popup appearing if you attack them saying this person is important and if you kill them it might break your game. You can stop and the NPC will pretend nothing happens, or you can click to keep going and the game will continue allowing you to attack.

 

[tropit9]

i'm currently playing planescape: torment for the first time, and so far if it moves, you can potentialy kill it, i think that killable npc's, both plain and important ones are a cool thing, but if it will consequences, such as killing drug lord A make the drug lord B more powerful but also more prone to be hinderd by police that sort of thing.

i too hated that in the witcher 3 you can't kill npc's, just go apeshit on those eternal fire holier than thou zealots.

i can tottaly imagine a walkthrough where you a homicidal maniac who just kill maim destroy all in his wake, thus summon the super swat/army forces a la gta.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

This is a thin line, you can commit some crime, but running helter skelter and murdering everything in plain sight for fun? Not a single npc/organization would want to deal with you and they would All put you down like a rabid animal.
Rpg's in general struggle with allowing player freedom in this and then hand waving rules of the setting to accommodate it.

 

[tropit9]

This is a thin line, you can commit some crime, but running helter skelter and murdering everything in plain sight for fun? Not a single npc/organization would want to deal with you and they would All put you down like a rabid animal.
Rpg's in general struggle with allowing player freedom in this and then hand waving rules of the setting to accommodate it.

well that is the point. it's not supposed to be prodoctive or plot advancing, evan in gta you can do this with all the sniper/swat/ tanks/ chopers and eventaully gunned down. you make a save, lose your shit, see a war zone realized in it's full glory, then die a beautiful death. wahts more, if you can hire/convince some merceneries or just plain psychos to this with you, and of course you can killed them too just for fun.

in the witcher 3 there was pre nerfed builds that allows you to tkae the whole nilfgaardain camp out. of course it was not prdodoctive, to story progress and did not have amzing concequences such as shifiting the tide of war or make emhyr sen assasion after you. and there always that quick hit animation of a soldier that put you deat quen an al evan at full hp, but it fun just to see geralt goes apeshit.

if you can break your game with this such as killing essentail npc so youl have to start over it would be a really nice touch, but not probable. it is an elemant found mostly on crpg games that i love very much.

i think we can at least agree that minor npc's of no importance should be killable for more immersion.

 

[Suhiira]

If CP2077 is programmed to be anything like CP2020 PnP murder sprees aren't going to last very long.

As to random NPCs being killable, definitely ... collateral damage. Both for the player AND the gangs/cops.

 

[tropit9]

regarding to this topic: should children also be killable? like in the first fallout games? i just read that in kingdon come deliverence there will not be such a thing mostly due to rating bordes. in a dark gritty future it should no suprise to me see the son of a ceo drive over a child at top speed with car and get awey with it beacuse his mom owns most of the police force.

 

[Suhiira]

CDPR has to make take into account their international audience, and the laws and standards of various nations. So it's often best to err on the side of not including things most of the world may find offensive.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

if you can break your game with this such as killing essentail npc so youl have to start over it would be a really nice touch, but not probable. it is an elemant found mostly on crpg games that i love very much.

This is difficult to pull off, especially in more complex, branching storylines. New Vegas did something like this, but it did not feel punishing enough. Kind of made the player feel invulnerable to consequences of his actions, only leading to status quo in end game world state.
Morrowind had a simple, message shows up on the screen...don't see the appeal, just reload the game.

They could have an alternate ending, for anyone that goes completely ever the edge, becomes a public known serial killer.

You've got one hour to get out of the city...fail and cinematic plays out: caught and thrown to be torn apart by an angry mob. Or all this plays directly in gameplay. Multiplayer could also work here...other player join in on the hunt.

Succeed and you get to live the rest of your life in the wastes as loner/outcast.

 

[tropit9]

new vegas was a really good game.

 

[AdamTaylor]

I like the idea of everyone being killable. Within reason.

Most important NPC's should require the player going out of their way to kill them, and thus would lose out (or unlock) story and quests. Don't just make them targets that run around in dangerous areas like some games do. It's one thing to have an NPC fighting alongside the player get killed, it's another to have an NPC randomly wander into something that will kill them for no reason.

 

[tropit9]

like assasenating a a major ceo or rock star, can lock you out of realted questlines and have a a major impact on the world state, and possibly story. of course you can kill a ceo in his office in the high tower, but it should be nigh impossible to do so. that sort of thing. biut your line of thought is semiliar to mine.

 

[AdamTaylor]

like assasenating a a major ceo or rock star, can lock you out of realted questlines and have a a major impact on the world state, and possibly story. of course you can kill a ceo in his office in the high tower, but it should be nigh impossible to do so. that sort of thing. biut your line of thought is semiliar to mine.

Killing the important NPC would lock you out of questlines that would directly involve them... but possibly open up new ones (like now getting to deal with their rival or being rewarded for taking them out and starting a new quest line).

And yeah, technically you should be able to kill a CEO in his office. He exists and is thus able to be killed, the trick is managing to get to him and being able to kill him without getting tied to it.

That's always one of the big issues I've had in most RPG's. The whole "omniscient" NPCs. If I kill someone in a closed room with no witnesses, no cameras, none of that... there's no way that everyone in the world would suddenly know that I did it. You should always have to be CAUGHT doing something for NPC's to know that you've done something. And there should be a reasonable distribution of information. If you get caught doing something shady in a company, then that company's security would naturally be alerted right away. But their rival company wouldn't know anything about it until some time has passed (and their spies have discovered that something went down).

 

[Suhiira]

Yeah, getting seen should matter, but then again CP2077 is set in the modern age ... forensic science ... it's not like your typical midevil game where you need an eye witness.

 

[BjornTheBandit]

Yeah, getting seen should matter, but then again CP2077 is set in the modern age ... forensic science ... it's not like your typical midevil game where you need an eye witness.

Yeah. They have facial recognition even today, so imagine the kind of strange things 60 years from now (I know, different timelines and all, but it's still 2077)

 

[Mebrilia]

This is a thin line, you can commit some crime, but running helter skelter and murdering everything in plain sight for fun? Not a single npc/organization would want to deal with you and they would All put you down like a rabid animal.
Rpg's in general struggle with allowing player freedom in this and then hand waving rules of the setting to accommodate it.

you should be able to do that...............................................................

and face the consequences about it.

 

[DarthRaver8686]

How bout if the npc is an important one that has to do with certain questlines...you can totally murder them in cold blood if your little heart desires, but only after youve completed the questline the npc is associated with. This could also be a cool way to unlock some sort of hidden questline. U think your done with the game and u decide to go on a killing spree, ya know just to round put your experience and then all of a sudden after your done theres new questlines that werent there before...id be down for something like that!!

 

[Suhiira]

How bout if the npc is an important one that has to do with certain questlines...you can totally murder them in cold blood if your little heart desires, but only after youve completed the questline the npc is associated with. This could also be a cool way to unlock some sort of hidden questline. U think your done with the game and u decide to go on a killing spree, ya know just to round put your experience and then all of a sudden after your done theres new questlines that werent there before...id be down for something like that!!

Can't say as I agree.
I'd prefer the "old school" method ... you want to go on a pointless NPC murder spree you break your game because the game isn't intended to be a pointless murder spree.
Reap what you sow ... chaos and a broken "world".