The Forlorn Hope: Cyberpunk Off-Topic

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Why bother?
If you're worshiped by the masses their blind faith means nothing can seriously threaten your position.
I suppose they could be petty, vindictive, and intolerant and crush any perceived threats but seriously, why bother?

Now you're thinking like our savior Marcin "Emperor of Mankind" Iwinski.

If you can define what's wrong and right to the whole world, there's really no motive to care about the consequences of your actions. Which leads some to believe that morality is not absolute, and it depends entirely on the perspective of the individual, in other words Hitler was not a jerk (he was).

Guess who in this whole forum has the True Neutral alignment? It's Suhiira .

 

[227]

The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.

 

[Suhiira]

I usually tend to think of myself as more Lawful Neutral ... but there are unjust laws ... so yeah ... maybe True Neutral.

 

[Calistarius]

Heh...

Anyone seen American Gods yet? The recent conversation made me think about it.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I haven't seen it, but I heard there was a scene where one of those "gods" sucks someone in her pussy whole during sex, or something. I suppose it might be worth a watch when possible.

 

[metalmaniac21]

The book is alot more expressive regarding sex scenes.

 

[Rawls]

I usually tend to think of myself as more Lawful Neutral ... but there are unjust laws ... so yeah ... maybe True Neutral.

Embrace the lawful! I used to try and pretend I was neutral good. Sadly I'm one of those insufferable lawful good characters. Whomp whomp.

 

[Calistarius]

That's too bad. There's some great stuff you're missing out on.

Yeah... I know. The problem here though is that the setting and genre makes all the difference to me. If it is not the right setting or genre I will probably not be interested.

Take for example stories like your average Romeo and Juliet... or Jane Eyre, or your average Jane Austen stuff... and put it in the "proper" settings and/or genres that they take place in... and you will find that I will hiss worse then a Vampire caught in sunlight, as I then try to flee from the horrors of stuff like that! XD

I really do not like that 18th-19th century Jane Eyre stuff kind of stuff... it's sort of on the same level as Country and Western music, and the Swedish music style called "Dansband"... I loath it... it makes me tired watching/hearing it... it makes me want to verbally groan, and my eyes roll all over in pure reflex of it all... and it makes my skin crawl where I just want to get away from it... XD

But take the exact same stories I mentioned, and put them in settings and genres that I like (of course addapting them to such a degree that they would work in those settings and genres of course... there is no point in doing it if your not going to adapt it so that it workd for an sci-fi action movie or something)... and you will probably find a person (me that is) who munches all that up with bones, skin, fure, hair and all... XD


So far nothing has been able to save neither Country and Wester, or Dansband for me though... that is pretty much a lost cause there... XD

I grew out of fantasy literature arounf 15-20 years ago. Or, I just got bored one day reading god knows how manyeth book of The Wheel of TIme and witnessing how in the past thousand+ pages the story hadn't moved an inch, and decided to leave fantasy out completely for a while... and I just never went back, couldn't get into it anymore. I even tried The Song of Ice and Fire a while ago, but it just didn't work.

I also grew up on Fantasy more or less, but during my teen years. I found Fantasy only a few weeks after I turned 13 (back in mid 1992), and I have never turned back since then. What did it for me was that I finally found the first book in David Eddings bookseries "The Belgariad"... to this day his books (anything connected to Belgarion, and the other series about Sparhawk as well) are my favorit fantasy books of all time... even though I have read a lot of other fantasy since, and even though I am 38 at the moment (Eddings books are pretty much youthbooks really... but they where placed in the adult section).

When I started reading books (I was about 10 years) I had started out on your average "young kid who lives his life, with school, home, friends, etc" stuff, pretty common stuff I guess. I later also found and read some several "The Hardy Boys" books... and actually I did read 2 kids/youth fantasy books as well (it had not captured me though at the time).

But the ones I liked the most at that time where a lot of "Historical youth" novels by the same Swedish author (there are no English translations of any of his books... neither his youthbooks, or his books for adults (which where crime/detective/lawyer/Scandinavian noir types of books... never read them... but have seen some of the Swedish movies and tv-series that where spawned out of them))... the premis of each of those books was that the author had picked one fairly to very big event in Swedish history (roughly speaking most of them took place somewhere between the 13th to extreamly early 18th century), where he then created a compleatly made up young boy/teen (12-16'ish I think most of them where) and shoved that guy straight into the middle of that actual historical event, where the guy usually had to overcome something.

In my favorit one of them a young guy had found him self having been conscripted into the Swedish military, and was sent off to Russia, where his first ever battle was "The Battle of Poltava" which went really badly for the Swedes (this battle is by many considered to be the point where Sweden started to decline as one of the "Great Powers" of Europe), the battle is lost and the kid get's captured by Russian soldiers, he is sent away to Sibera as a workslave at some workcamp, but decides to plan for his escape (he does not think he would survive staying there due to the conditions), and then you follow him as he tries to travel through Russia and back home to Sweden and his family. In another one the guy was accused, and jailed (innocently so), for being the one who started the fire that burned down much of the Castle in Stockholm back in the the very late 17th century (like the last few years or so). And in the third and last that I can recall, which I actually do not remember much at all about the story, it took place somewhere in the range of the 1660-1700's or so, where the kid was either part of, or was sent to infiltrate (as a spy for the Swedes) a group of "Snapphanes"... which where a pro-Danish guerrilla organization which fought against the Swedes on Swedish soil, and did what ever they could to hinder and undermine, and what not, the Swedes. It ultimatly failed of course... especially after the Danish king ordered them to start killing "Swedish loyalists", aka people in Scania and other previously Danish provinses and such which where now Swedish, people who through a pretty ruthless "Swedification" policy had sworn allegiance to the Swedish king... due to that, them killing people like that, it drove a wedge between the local population and the Snapphanes and Denmark... to such a degree that when Denmark some time later attacked Sweden in those locations, Sweden where able to muster up local millitias which fought against the Danes. Sweden and Denmark has been at each others throats a lot of times through out history... I don't think there are a lot of other nations out there which has fought each other as often as Sweden and Denmark has... XD


Anyway... once I had read all that I felt I wanted to read from the childrens/teen section I wondered what I was going to do now. Decided that I guess I should check out the adult sections of the libraries (not as in 18+ kind of "adult section"... just a section which where dedicated to "normal" none children/teen books... XD ). The way I went about it was to start at Aa, and then pull out every single book untill I found something interesting. So I was TOTALLY judging the books by their cover (both front and back)... XD It was not untill I came to Ee that I finally found something interesting... when as I mentioned above found the fist book in David Eddings "The Belgariad" series... when I pulled out that book, "Pawn of Prophecy", and saw the front cover of the book, it instantly clicked and spoke to me...I barelly had to read the text on the back befor I was already sold on it. XD

Those Eddings books that are connected to Belgarion, and the other series connected to Sparhawk, are books which I keep re-reading every now and then, at most there will be 2-3 years between each time... by now I have probably read the original "The Belgariad" series about 15 times, and "The Mallorean" 1 time less (the Swedish translation of this series had not come out yet when I found Eddings, and it was not untill some several years later that I started reading books in English)... the books about Sparhawk I am probably up to having read about 12 times I think (each time I re-read Eddings Fantasy books these days, I always read all of them in a row).

The books series which are closest after that for me is probably Katharine Kerr's "Deverry Cycle" series, which I think I have re-read 5 times since I found them maybe around 96-97'ish... although, annoyingly I have been unable to read the last 3 books in Swedish, because the Swedish company that translated the series here decided that "naa... we are going to stop doing that because it is not seeling well enough"... which is highly frustrating. I mean you translated the first 12 books, why stop now with only 3 books left?! Technicly I have read Robert Jordan books more often then Kerr's... but most of those came from the fact that the Swedish translations where still ongoing when I found them... but eventually I stopped re-reading the entire series each time a new book came out... XD Decided to start waiting for the series to actually finish first... then he died... and then Brandon Sanderson was choicen to finish it, and right now I am for the first time finally reading the entire thing from start to finish (I came to the first Sanderson book a week or so ago). Annoyingly enough though, the same company which translates almost all Fantasy books in Sweden, that decided to stop translating Kerrs books, also decided to not translate the last 3 Wheel of Time books... so once again I can't read the entire series in Swedish!

It's not that I have to read them/books in Swedish, I am perfectly fine with reading English, but it's annoying because I am a bit of a completionist, and I like symetry, and also because the slight difference you might find between the English and Swedish version of a book will give it a slightly different flavour which is nice... so yeah... annoying. XD

These authors, David Eddings, Katharine Kerr, and Robert Jordan, are my favorit Fantasy authors... favorit authors in general as well.

And yay! I just found out that a few months ago there came out word that Wheel of Time is going to be made into a tv-series! Here is hoping that Eddings books will find it's way out to tv-series as well, which is something I have wanted ever since I first read the books. Would like to see Kerr's books to as tv-series... but I am not sure how the Deverry series would work as a tv-series though... since that one jumps back and forth in time a lot (several hundreds of years in jumps at times)... as in it followes the souls of each of the main characters in the books "now", where they go back and look at who the soul was in a past life... and not only for a short flashback or something either... usually for an entire chapter, and occationally an entire book... could get a bit to confusing for a tv-series, especialy if not "done right"... what ever "right" would be for a series like that. XD


/babble

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Take for example stories like your average Romeo and Juliet... or Jane Eyre, or your average Jane Austen stuff...

Yeah, I don't read that stuff. My tastes on books are quite a bit different.

I did read the Belgarion and Sparhawk books two or three times back in my teens, but I doubt I could get back into them easily anymore (they might just feel a bit juvenile as reminders of my youth).

The first (real) novel I read was Jurassic Park in '93 or '94 shortly aftrer I'd seen the movie. I read in from cover to cover in one night (and have read it about 10 or so times since then). And Chrichtons books are usually very good, if at times a bit too technical for their own good. Aside from that, I tend to like my stories on the bit more grotesque side... Irvine Welsh, Brett Ellis, Stephen King, Sven Hassel... In it's utter absurdity, Ellis' Glamorama is probably one of the best books I've read. Welsh's Glue is possibly the best growing up/friendship story I've read. I've read most of King's books (well, there's a bunch of newer ones I've yet to touch...). And Sven Hassel makes the best "truthbased fiction" about WW2. There's a lot of excellent stories out there.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yeah, I don't read that stuff. My tastes on books are quite a bit different.

I did read the Belgarion and Sparhawk books two or three times back in my teens, but I doubt I could get back into them easily anymore (they might just feel a bit juvenile as reminders of my youth).

Belgariad yes, Earthsea...no. Pretty grown up stuff, mostly. Ursula K LeGuin can write and it still appeals. Lots of metaphor and message in those books.

 

[SigilFey]

I also grew up on Fantasy more or less, but during my teen years.

Joining in here! I was always a reader, but when I got my hands on The Hobbit in the '80s, I suddenly became an avid reader. Fantasy simply provided me with that level of depth, imagination, and meaningful metaphor that just doesn't exist in "real life". My grandparents got me a full set of Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion when I finished grade 8, and I seriously considered never coming back to the real world. (I had to though. Work and stuff.)

Brandon Sanderson was choicen to finish [The Wheel of Time].

And after Tolkien, Robert Jordan is my all-time favorite author. The Wheel of Time was funny for me, actually: I only started reading it in my late 20s, and I initially thought it was hammy...but the way that Jordan re-imagined classical fantasy tropes, then started applying webs of inter-connectivity to the themes... Just, WOW. (e.g. When I first read the words "The Breaking of the World", I was like: Really...? *Sigh*. When the books finally revealed what The Breaking of the World actually was...how it had happened...what it actually meant...my heart was pounding and I probably drooled on myself a little. Jordan's work is genius. Plus, I still argue that he has created the absolute best character development of any story I have ever read...ever.) I hope that they eventually get the last novels translated so you can get the whole story. Did you ever read what Sanderson had to go through when he was chosen to finish the last books? That guy deserves a medal for even getting close...let alone finishing it!

Another awesome author, but one that doesn't make a lot of waves is L.E. Modesitt, Jr. The Saga of Recluce is probably my next favorite series. I can immediately understand why people don't really dig his style (very dry for fantasy), but the series has a snowball effect. While his work might feel a little colorless when compared to Tolkien, Jordan, Salvatore, McCaffrey, etc., the larger story and universe he's created is absolutely brilliant.

 

[Mgec]

I don't drink alcohol though. Do you serve Sprite or Coca Cola?

 

[Sardukhar]

I don't drink alcohol though. Do you serve Sprite or Coca Cola?

Me either and yes. But...Edgy Sprite!

 

[Calistarius]

I did read the Belgarion and Sparhawk books two or three times back in my teens, but I doubt I could get back into them easily anymore (they might just feel a bit juvenile as reminders of my youth).

Yeah, a lot of people do have a problem going back to books like that. A lot of my friends around me who did read them as young, are incapable of reading them today due to the same reasons as you staying away from them.

I just don't think in those kinds of terms/ways with stuff I like. And stuff like that does neither take me back to the "good/bad old days" or something either when I read them... neither does things like music, or movies, or tv-seres, or what ever else I did when I was young or was going through some good or bad periods of time in my life. The only thing these books/songs/etc makes me think of when I read them is "I like this"... essentually. XD

Aside from that, I tend to like my stories on the bit more grotesque side... Irvine Welsh, Brett Ellis, Stephen King, Sven Hassel... In it's utter absurdity, Ellis' Glamorama is probably one of the best books I've read. Welsh's Glue is possibly the best growing up/friendship story I've read. I've read most of King's books (well, there's a bunch of newer ones I've yet to touch...). And Sven Hassel makes the best "truthbased fiction" about WW2. There's a lot of excellent stories out there.

*nods* Stuff like horror or simmilar has never interested me in any medium... I tend to get bored very quickly. But again it does come down to how it is pressented to me. In book form, since 1992, the only things which does interest me in reading is "pure fantasy" (and by that I mean your standard medieval'esque thing with magic and monsters etc in it)... and a small amount of sci-fi books as well (in the types I prefer that is). In some other mediums, like movies and tv-series, there I can be ok and not get bored with horror, if it's in the right setting and genre... think the Alien movies for example. And the other things you mentioned are things I am not interested in novel form really either... but can be interested in things like movies and tv-series, again, depends highly on how it is presented to me (the WW2 stuff I have no problems with being presented in a movie as is, because I am more or less interested in WW2)... so yeah... what I like and do not like in what ever medium, setting, and genre it is, can varie a lot... XD

Joining in here! I was always a reader, but when I got my hands on The Hobbit in the '80s, I suddenly became an avid reader. Fantasy simply provided me with that level of depth, imagination, and meaningful metaphor that just doesn't exist in "real life". My grandparents got me a full set of Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion when I finished grade 8, and I seriously considered never coming back to the real world. (I had to though. Work and stuff.)

I have tried reading Tolkiens books, multiple times... and I think I have only ever managed to get through each book/series only one time. I could never really figure out why back in the day why I had such a hard time getting though his books... because on paper it should totally be my thing, and because I love Tolkiens world and mythos and what not it's self... and when the Peter Jackson movies eventually came around I absolutly loved them as well. But for some reason the books always was such an uphill battle for me to get through.

Then maybe 10 or so years ago, when I had my last try trying to read through Tolkiens books, I suddenly realized what it was (I was paying a bit more attention this time, to try and figure it out). Hobbits... that is the simple answer... I just don't have any interest what so ever in reading about Hobbits, about small people with big hairy feet, doing their thing. And since they are the majority of all those books I need to struggle to work my way through them. Any chapter or sections of the books which did not follow the Hobbits, where the main character was anyone else then Hobbits (especially when it was Strider or some other human... since I am not all that interested in Dwarves or Elves as a main character either normally (especially Dwarves))... those chapters/sections of Tolkiens books I loved. That is the simple reason as to why most of Tolkiens stuff always tends to be such an uphill battle for me to get through in bookform, Hobbits... like I said, in movie form I have no problem what so ever with the story... even though I do wish that there was more focus on the humans and what not. XD

It is the same with games (be it videogames, pen and paper rpg's, tabletop/figure games, etc)... if I have a choice in the matter I will close to 100% of the time play a human character... because that is what I find interesting and fun to play. XD

And after Tolkien, Robert Jordan is my all-time favorite author. The Wheel of Time was funny for me, actually: I only started reading it in my late 20s, and I initially thought it was hammy...but the way that Jordan re-imagined classical fantasy tropes, then started applying webs of inter-connectivity to the themes... Just, WOW. (e.g. When I first read the words "The Breaking of the World", I was like: Really...? *Sigh*. When the books finally revealed what The Breaking of the World actually was...how it had happened...what it actually meant...my heart was pounding and I probably drooled on myself a little. Jordan's work is genius. Plus, I still argue that he has created the absolute best character development of any story I have ever read...ever.)

Jordan is, as mentioned in my top 3, even though I have not finished his series yet. XD I am not certain how old I first was when I found Jordan, but he and his series was the second Fantasy series I started reading after Eddings. Because when I had read everything that had come out from Eddings a few times over (that had been translated atleast at the time as well), I asked the librarian if they had anything else Fantasy wise that was sort of like Eddings stuff, and she pointed me towards Jordans stuff.

Man... I had such a crush on her, the librarian... still do actually. XD That was definitely one part of the reason as to why I was constantly at the library getting new books as well back then... the librarian who worked there. The books where still the main reason, but she was very much so the second largest reason I loved going to the library. XD Funny thing as well... some 10 or so years after I had first the found Eddings books back in 1992, I mentioned to that librarian that I liked that the Fantasy section had become so big now... to which she told me that the only reason she had eventually made an entire "Fantasy + Sci-Fi" book section (they had befor then been scattered out amongst the "normal" novels), and the only reason their Fantasy book collection was as big as it was now... was because of me... I had single handedly tripled the size of their Fantasy book collection. XD

I hope that they eventually get the last novels translated so you can get the whole story. Did you ever read what Sanderson had to go through when he was chosen to finish the last books? That guy deserves a medal for even getting close...let alone finishing it!

Well, like I said... I do read the books in English as well, which I am doing right now (listening to the audiobook though, I am actually on the last 3d of the 11th book currently... I missremebered it befor, since I wrote in my previous post that I was in one of the Sandersons books, but I was mistaken, I am in the last book that Jordan wrote). I was going to read the entire thing once Sanderson was done with the last of the 3 books he wrote for Wheel of Time back when it came out in 2013... but due to that I had just started another listening to the entire "Vampire Chronicles" series (Ann Rice books, the series where The Interview with the Vampire comes from... it is another books series I highly enjoy), and then listening to the entire Sword of Truth series, and then going over to reading the entire Katharine Kerr book series as well (in book form that time), and then trying a new (new to me atleast) Russian Fantasy series (which I do not remember the name of either the books or author), and then going over and having another full read through all of Eddings Fantasy books again (audio this time)... due to all that I did not get to Wheel of Time untill late last year. I don't read as much as I used to either... when I read physical books it is usualy only when I have gone to bed and/or just woken up, or when I sit on a bus or something(which does not happen often these days)), and when I listen to the audiobooks I usually do it when I play certain types of games (where I don't need to have my full focus on the game, like for example the XCOM games), but I don't always feel like playing games like that (so if I listen to the audiobooks or not is connected to when I play those games)... so a combination of that has ment that it takes me time to get through an entire series... hence why I did not get to WoT untill late last year, and why it has taken me 8-9 months to have goten towards the last 3rd of the 11th Wheel of Time book. XD

And yeah, I am totally aware of what Sanderson had to go through when he finished Wheel of Time for Jordan. I think I read an entire article that he him self wrote about the entire process of it, plus a lot of other stuff about it around that time. That it was supposed to have been only on book (Jordan had him self intended to only make it just one book... but I doubt even he could have ended it in only that one book... XD ), and that it did not take Sanderson all that long befor he him self realized that one book would not be enough to end the series (was supposed to have been only 200000 words, but ended up being almost 1 million words in total... hence 3 books... XD ). Also... from what I have heard, even though Sanderson came to the conclusion that it would take more then one book, and even though it ended up being three books and multiple years longer to write then first thought, Sanderson did not ask for more money then he initially was promised for writing one book... so if that is true (and if the book company and/or Jordan family did not by them selves give him more afterward... which would have been a dick move on their part I feel if they did not), then Sanderson wrote 3 books for the "salery" of just 1 book. XD

Another awesome author, but one that doesn't make a lot of waves is L.E. Modesitt, Jr. The Saga of Recluce is probably my next favorite series. I can immediately understand why people don't really dig his style (very dry for fantasy), but the series has a snowball effect. While his work might feel a little colorless when compared to Tolkien, Jordan, Salvatore, McCaffrey, etc., the larger story and universe he's created is absolutely brilliant.

Yeah, some authors who do great work just tend to never find a big audience for what ever reason. I think most of the stuff I have read has been atleast fairly big and well known amongst Fantasy fans (atleast in English). But there are some things I have read, that seemed big and popular, which feels like not a lot of people are even aware of it... like Katharine Kerr. She must have been big enough in English, considering that a Swedish book company decided that they would translate her books to Swedish (they would not do that with just about anything... I am sure it must have had a proven record of good sales figures in English first)... but I have never seen/heard anyone else (be it online, or face to face with people) ever bring up her and her Deverry Cycle book series... I am always the one who brings her and her main bookseries up when a conversationabout books and fantasy shows up... but I have almost never encountered anyone who says "Oh yeah, Kerr/Deverry Cycle, I know of it/have read it" after I brought it up.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

operator, please play Hip To Be Square by Huey Lewis and the News

 

[Calistarius]

Having a square hip would be really strange I think... could not walk through a crowd of people without hurting someone from all the sharp edges...

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Robots don't have that problem, they're higly intelligent, so it compensates the movements.

 

[Calistarius]

Well... that might work on your average street... but in a big city with millions uppon millions of people in them, where most of them walk everywhere they need to go... aka most of the big Cyberpunk cities... then your probably going to have a robot who get's pushed around a lot because it get's in the way... XD

"Ain't nobody got time for that" slowass robot to get out of the way. XD

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Come on lets get real, in the cyberpunk universe robots will probably be identical to humans, or will they? Ex Machina is a nice movie.

 

[Calistarius]

I liked Ex Machina very much. Very well done and everything.

We do seem to produce our fair share of good actors/actresses here (here as in Sweden)... I mean where else are you going to get people to play the main Russian villains in movies and on tv?

I actually don't know what "level" of android Cyberpunk 2020 had... never got the vision of that CP2020 had much or any of those kinds of Blade Runner kinds of androids... but I guess by 2077 they might have them, who knows.