How far one is able to go?

[metalmaniac21]

How far one is able to go?

One of those gripes with multi-role/class/profession in role-playing games is, well, restrictions. Or, how far can one character go beyond the red line of law. A Cop spending the week supply of ammo on civilians and some unaffiliated during operations looks a bit off. On the other hand, a ruthless bandit or even a cyberpsycho that can't touch city lemmings aswell doesn't look that threathening and believable, not to mention the victims of Rockerboys' "revolution" acts and other riots where civils casualties, who happened to be fans of certain band or charming individual, is something to deal with. So yeah, civils - always a no-no like in Witcher or target practice? What's the golden middle?

Yes, in classic Fallout it's always a target practice, but the world is in anarchistic state so you'd see that coming.

How would CDPR deal with such problem?

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

A Cop spending the week supply of ammo on civilians and some unaffiliated during operations looks a bit off.

If RPGs are about doing anything you want then mass murdering civilians is part of that freedom. under the condition that it has consequences for the player. A cop is not always "good" and the Chaotic Neutral alignment is fun, things aren't always black and white.

 

[metalmaniac21]

If RPGs are about doing anything you want then mass murdering civilians is part of that freedom. under the condition that it has consequences for the player. A cop is not always "good" and the Chaotic Neutral alignment is fun, things aren't always black and white.

1. Would other Cops shot down player Cop for dumb genocide? What kind of consequences the world would suffer when police's authority drops to zero after that?
2. Isn't dumb genocide just ebin evil beyond 9-alignment map and boring from gameplay perspective?
3. Immersion breaking, hello?

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

1. Would other Cops shot down player Cop for dumb genocide? What kind of consequences the world would suffer when police's authority drops to zero after that?
2. Isn't dumb genocide just ebin evil beyond 9-alignment map and boring from gameplay perspective?
3. Immersion breaking, hello?

>be a cop in Night City
>kill 35 people in a mass shooting because lulz
>all other cops start shooting at you
>can't join good cop forces again
>you're no longer a good cop, now you're a bad "cop" or a mercenary/vigilante
>now only option is to work for a private evil/neutral security company that deals with "criminals" but in a more chaotic way
>private company doens't give a fuck if you kill 35 people but normal/good cops still care and will hunt you if you start breaking the law openly

Problem solved. Freedom > Immersion

I'm pro mass shooting, you know why? Cause' its fun.

 

[metalmaniac21]

That's one good way to handle this, but a little bit "eh?". Why should other ebin PMCs outright accept you after you just murdered several dozen people and your own fellas if there's a possibility that you can betray them too? And why would they hire cyberpsychos for that matter. There's whole other unit for them... Not to mention losing your ability to use the force of law.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

That's one good way to handle this, but a little bit "eh?"

Perhaps, or maybe being "eh" is a good thing. CDPR could either give benefits for those who decide to be bad cops or simply don't, yeah just give a few unique benefits for bad cops but make it clear that being a normal cop has far more benefits.

Why should other ebin PMCs outright accept you after you just murdered several dozen people and your own fellas if there's a possibility that you can betray them too?

Great point, usually in stories, good guys care about loyalty and bad ones don't. And not caring about loalty is usually associated with not being loyal. Bad guys are not loyal in long term story...another motive why not to be a bad cop.

If CDPR wants to give players benefits for going against the tide and by being a bad cop well...perhaps bad cops could have more "flexibility" when dealing with criminals for example: a normal cop usually can't break into someone's apartmant to retrieve an illegal data but bad cops can.

And why would they hire cyberpsychos for that matter.

Of course not, unless the bad mass murderer cop has a nice reputation for dealing with "problems". And if bad cop doesn't have a nice reputation, well...perhaps the game could force the player to not be a "cop" and simply be temporarily a low life mercenary in order to gain a better reputation and try to be recruited by the private evil security corporation.

Not to mention losing your ability to use the force of law.

Isn't that a great consequence? It will make players think twice before killing innocents... What I'm proposing is not to encourage players to be bad cops, but to simply give players that option. there are plenty of private corporations in CP2020 that are military...so I'm not fucking up the lore.


I play the same RPGs multiple times almost the same way over and over again and I don't explore all the story options, but by simply knowing that there are many other possibilities to finish the game it's something that gives a powerful freedom feeling. Perhaps the majority of players will play as a good/normal cop, but when they know that there are consequences for their actions that will give them players a big emotional impact. A big boost.

 

[Suhiira]

Problem is, unlike human GMs, no video game can react to whatever it's player(s) may dream up to do. The designers/developers are restricted (by time if nothing else) to dealing with the "probable" vice the "possible".

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Yeah guys, let's stop thinking about new ideas.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

How would CDPR deal with such problem?

Have the number of bystanders killed accumulate and count for something. Like if your count gets high enough, you will be considered a psycopath by every party with means of knowledge and you will be shot on sight (and this status will be hard if not impossible to get off from). Furthermore, this might affect your characters psyche and suddenly you notice your dialog options have turned to reflect your psychopath state; not very pleasant options nor ripe for normal conversations (except for possible few select NPC's). Might make getting through the game harder, but you made your bed.

And obviously the attention of the law you gather shouldn't just wither away like it does in GTA, nor the punishment be just a loading screen and a respawn at the police station like it is in GTA. You get caught and sentenced, you serve hard time and it's game over; you get shot, you die and it's game over. There might be some form of last chance for bribery or something if you get caught (but a mark is left in your record), but failing that and it's time to reload.

Yeah guys, let's stop thinking about new ideas.

Welcome to my side of the street.

 

[Rawls]

One of those gripes with multi-role/class/profession in role-playing games is, well, restrictions. Or, how far can one character go beyond the red line of law. A Cop spending the week supply of ammo on civilians and some unaffiliated during operations looks a bit off. On the other hand, a ruthless bandit or even a cyberpsycho that can't touch city lemmings aswell doesn't look that threathening and believable, not to mention the victims of Rockerboys' "revolution" acts and other riots where civils casualties, who happened to be fans of certain band or charming individual, is something to deal with. So yeah, civils - always a no-no like in Witcher or target practice? What's the golden middle?

Yes, in classic Fallout it's always a target practice, but the world is in anarchistic state so you'd see that coming.

How would CDPR deal with such problem?

Well Geralt didn't kill civilians because it was completely out of character for him. I remember hearing some devs somewhere talk about that before TW3 release. I'm not sure how I feel about it for a game. In a perfect world ... I think the option ought to be available ... but that it effects your reputation forever. Basically no NPCs want to help you, the police are constantly searching for you, etc. Also, CP2077 will hopefully be a deadly game. Meaning that if you go this path it would be virtually impossible to complete the game. THAT would be my ideal. You can be a mass murderer ... but if you're a known mass murderer it has huge consequences regarding both gameplay and story ... almost to the point of making the game unplayable. And it should be easy to get caught when there are cameras all over the place. Because that would be the real consequence in that world.

I'm fine with letting the player have the option, but it has to have realistic consequences ... which would mean making it almost impossible to "beat" the game.

If your not going to do it that way ... I'd rather not have the option (like TW3 did it) than have something like GTA used to be where you drive into a garage and everyone forgets you killed 200 people.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I'm fine with letting the player have the option, but it has to have realistic consequences ... which would mean making it almost impossible to "beat" the game.

There's some good use for bribery, disguise and forgery skills. I think the player needs an opportunity, even if s/he opts to be a psycho..

 

[Rawls]

There's some good use for bribery, disguise and forgery skills. I think the player needs an opportunity, even if s/he opts to be a psycho..

But wouldn't this require a name change as well ... which would be problematic for voice acting and story generally. Even if you end up with a generic name (like pathfinder in ME:A), your still going to run into an issue were NPCs ought to go "wait a minute ... aren't you the person that killed all those people?" I'm sure there might be a way around it all, but it seems like a lot of opportunity cost to dedicated to something so extreme.

 

[metalmaniac21]

But wouldn't this require a name change as well ... which would be problematic for voice acting and story generally. Even if you end up with a generic name (like pathfinder in ME:A), your still going to run into an issue were NPCs ought to go "wait a minute ... aren't you the person that killed all those people?" I'm sure there might be a way around it all, but it seems like a lot of opportunity cost to dedicated to something so extreme.

Give up on dedicated name and just call player character generic "punk" or "edgerunner" instead of one according to player's role. Also give up on voiced player character altogether, but that's different topic.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

But wouldn't this require a name change as well ...

A pseudonym would suffice, but sure, something like that might be required.

which would be problematic for voice acting and story generally.

Oh, but I don't think the character should be named and defined by CDPR (like Geralt was), nor that the name would need to be recorded (nor that the PC is voiced for that matter). They've said we can create the character from ground up, I'd like to take it that that also means "who" the character is and what he is called.

Also, the story need not require more than minimal NPC interaction; "require" in a sense that what ever your goal, you can find the clues and items to solving it largely on your own. You'd be certainly missing out on stuff, but you'd also get a unique experience.

Almost all conversations can be handled without calling the PC a specific someone other than "you" or "he" or "she". That leaves room for things like the afore mentioned disguises and name changes/pseudonyms.

 

[NukeTheMoon]

I think it should be handled how TW1 handled killing guards. Too much and a bigger badass will come and f*ck you up unless you pay a fine.

Or just make non-combatants unkilllable in the game.
I don't get why people feel this need to be able to go Postal in every single open world game they play, and that it's somehow some major issue if they can't. There are games with going Postal in mind that are for that.

I'd think CP77 would be about survival through being pragmatic. Acting out so that you're a bounty for every lowlife with a rifle in a world with people this desperate just seems out of character.

 

[Shavod]

The way I see it I think player should be able to target unarmed civilians, but there always should be a consequences. The best solution would be to take a page from Vampire: Bloodlines and make it so we lose humanity not only by installing Cyberware in our bodies, but also when we murder innocent people, which would also cause exact same effect as Cyberpsychosis does. So basically when our humanity is low, our character sanity goes down as well, so she starts having a random outbursts of violence without our input. When we lose all of it, our character goes permanently insane, until a bullet puts her out of her misery. If we get caught commiting the act, we should be approached by the police who then we can bribe, so they would just came up with a bullshit justification for our actions, face them in a fight that is almost impossible to win or rely on charisma to get one or two free passes on the crime.

 

[RLKing1969]

Ok, since this IS a game based off of my beloved PNP, let me address the subject the way that Cyberpunk 2020 did. Here's the scoop: First, can you be a psycho in the game? Yes. Can you get away with it? Perhaps for awhile. (The standard city cop is overworked, underpaid, underappreciated and most departments are sadly understaffed). Not surprisingly, more than a few cops are crooked and CAN be bribed. Corp cops on the other hand are a different animal altogether. do some mayhem in a corp zone and you can expect ZERO mercy!) BUT, become TOO much of a nuisance and the cops CAN and WILL nail your ass, for no other reason than you are making them fill out too much paperwork after the fact. Become an even bigger nuisance, you become fodder for S.W.A.T and C-SWAT (A.K.A Max-Tac)... in that case , God help you ! (By the way, if you ARE a cop, better hope no one EVER finds out. Your partner MAY have your back, but he/she probably won't be able to save your ass from C-SWAT turning your crooked, whacked out butt into a greasy stain on the tarmac...EWWW!). Your MAIN problem getting away with mass murder is simply the fact that you are being watched and monitored EVERYWHERE you go, thanks to a nice little convenience known as a S.I.N (State Identity Number). This nice little convenience also makes it possible for a person to be able to buy, sell or trade, have a drivers license... the whole lot... Everyone has a S.I.N chip implanted...except a small number of Nomads...Or you, if you can afford the HUGE cost to have your S.I.N erased...becoming a Zero... And that is exactly what it sounds like... A non-person. Usually, only specialized persons involved in Organized Crime have access to the skills and personnel who can hack the government mainframes and make all record of your existence vanish... not to mention, remove the pesky chip.You could probably get by for awhile with fake I.D's, but these only go so far and are only as good as the "shoemaker" who made 'em. Your only other options are, should you have sufficiently stirred up the shit are A.) Run off with a Nomad pack and hope to hell your rep doesn't follow you there or hide out in the Combat Zone, where a good enough number of your neighbors are as psychotic as you are. Good luck, Captn', You'll be needing it.

 

[Sirenapples]

I wanna point out that Crime and Notoriety are great ways to insert underground surgical procedures to get replacement eyes, faces/facial features, and so on. Maybe even full replacement or modification of the body overall. Like the Image as Designed shops in Saints Row, but more indepth in the how and why they're able to do these things. Going even from a man to a woman or woman to a man mid playthrough by using one of those clinics, legal or underground. Getting a total makeover would be like going to a car paint job in some games, except it may be possible that detectives can still find you out eventually or connect dots if you draw too much attention to yourself again.

Rediscovery could be a bit too complicated though depending on how deep you go with it. Lot of room for Intrigue though.