Itemization in this game

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kofeiiniturpa;n9739341 said:
Crafting might work if it wasn't about scavenging tons of trash to make a weapon you will buy or loot soon enough anyway.

A limited set of very special items for unique purpose and for which you have to buy the parts to build and eventually upgrade to their final form.

And specifically "buy" the parts, not scavenge from trash and corpses. You need to acquire the funds and find the retailer and build up the skill to even craft the item. Or perhaps, if you search carefully enough, you can find a specialist NPC that can craft for you for not at all modest fee to not make it a cheap pass compared to the Techie who needs the skill and all (and craft better than the PC ever could... for being a "specialist" who's dedicated his life for the job).

I would rather ditch crafting all together..it's fine in survival or resource gathering games: they are more direct and have less clutter to deal with ( Last of Us, Alien Isolation, etc) or resource gathering makes a central aspect of the game, being directly tied to difficulty/world/encounter design.

But when rpgs try to do similar, they always fumble about: developers have to deal with systems of progression and with much, much more complex itemization.

Result feels unrefined, unrewarding, very easily exploited to break economy, ruining loot and world design ( hundreds of barrels filled with iron, chemical ingredients, etc), and turning into hassle of never-ending junk collection/inventory management. ( 99% of the time I find the game to be better, more balanced, enjoyable, by playing on lower difficulty and completely ignoring it)

And it wouldn't make much sense in futuristic, massively populated setting( plenty of shops and factories, right?)

Instead let's have a simple, easy to use, "lean" system of quality weapon and armor mods/equipment customization and use it to:

Reward exploration..."what's that? Why's that painting slightly to the side? Let's see...ohh, there's a safe there with a braindance chip and nice sniper mod" ( that modifies sight into thermal vision)

and

Offset to different "levels" of equipment...instead of shotgun +1,+2..+10, higher level gear should be less modifiable by having more complex circuitry/design. In this case, prototypes would take place of "unique" items.
 
Eltyris;n9752251 said:
I would rather ditch crafting all together..it's fine in survival or resource gathering games: they are more direct and have less clutter to deal with ( Last of Us, Alien Isolation, etc) or resource gathering makes a central aspect of the game, being directly tied to difficulty/world/encounter design.

I wouldn't miss it if it was absent, and yes I agree with the pitfalls of the feature, but a Techie being able to put something finicky together is still something I kind of expect from this title. Not about survival or massproducing shit from parts that laying around everywhere and are clogging up the inventory, but something more of a Gyro Gearloose or MacGyver moment within a certain context. If you catch my drift there. "Hey wait, I can actually do that...?"
 
Crafting would be fine as long as it makes sense and is meaningful. MAKES SENSE and MEANINGFUL. I haven't found many GOOD crafting systems outside of games that revolve around crafting things.
 
Eltyris;n9752251 said:
I would rather ditch crafting all together..
I dunno ... I feel like it's an important part of the game for Techies.

Eltyris;n9752251 said:
Offset to different "levels" of equipment...instead of shotgun +1,+2..+10, higher level gear should be less modifiable by having more complex circuitry/design. In this case, prototypes would take place of "unique" items.
This I totally agree with.

I could probably get behind a less crafting but more modification type system for most players. That would probably be similar in practice to the Last of Us ... though I'm not sure I would want it quite that limited with alcohol and rags only being used for a couple things. I also think (though I've heard lots of other people don't like the idea) that it would be cool if crafting was skill locked. Want to be able to make meds or explosives? ... you must have chemistry. Wan't to be able to tinker with cyberwear? ... you need the right skill for that. Make getting new skill points relatively rare (quest-line rewards).

Maybe even have to complete a questline before certain technical skills are available. Wan't to be an expert at chemistry ... gotta go through the process and experience the related quests.

Then make techies the only ones who can craft certain items themselves and make it so modding weapons and the like is easier for them. In fact giving each role a specific type of crafting or occupational skill would probably do wonders to creating a world economy. Make it so nobody can do everything. You always have to pay off somebody or do a favor to get to the finished product you need. That seem's pretty cyberpunk.

I do think the scarcity based crafting systems used mostly in horror games could transfer pretty well over to CP 2077 ... because poverty is another source of scarcity ... not just post-apocalyptic settings. Crafting fits in as a way to be part of the world economy and make at least one portion of the expensive dark future a little less overbearing.
 
It's part of CP2020s "realism".
You need the appropriate skills at the appropriate levels AND the tools necessary to craft/modify items, there's no "crafting" skill per-say in CP2020.

The exception being the "Jury Rig" skill, that's MacGyver! But even then you need the appropriate components/tools, you probably can't fix even the simplest problem on an aerodyne if all you have available is an empty Taco Hut wrapper and a nail file.
 
I've never done much crafting in games, but it seems very plausible in a resource restricted (not limited) setting like CP2020 or CP2077. What I wonder is who decides what is allowed to be crafted? Do you have to start with a plan devised by the devs? If so, why not just put them in a marketplace with a huge price tag? Or are we going to be able to create truly one of a kind items of our own devising? This is the type of crafting that would be most interesting and satisfying I think.
 
Rawls;n9773401 said:
Then make techies the only ones who can craft certain items themselves and make it so modding weapons and the like is easier for them. In fact giving each role a specific type of crafting or occupational skill would probably do wonders to creating a world economy. Make it so nobody can do everything. You always have to pay off somebody or do a favor to get to the finished product you need. That seem's pretty cyberpunk.
Yes! REALLY make people THINK and decide on what they can and can't do. Otherwise, everyone will just run a solo for the combat abilities and make amazing works of art to combat with. Like every protagonist ever. BORING I CRY OUT!
4meg;n9773921 said:
Or are we going to be able to create truly one of a kind items of our own devising? This is the type of crafting that would be most interesting and satisfying I think.
I think this is a good idea. I think it would be a headache, a backache, and a butt-ache to implement in a way that isn't janky or wonky and makes sense. But hey, that's why they have an entire legion of people working on it, eh?
 
4meg;n9773921 said:
I've never done much crafting in games, but it seems very plausible in a resource restricted (not limited) setting like CP2020 or CP2077. What I wonder is who decides what is allowed to be crafted? Do you have to start with a plan devised by the devs? If so, why not just put them in a marketplace with a huge price tag? Or are we going to be able to create truly one of a kind items of our own devising? This is the type of crafting that would be most interesting and satisfying I think.
I'd suspect CDPR will follow the guidelines laid out in CP2020.

Basically you decide what feature/improvement you want to add to something and this generates a Difficulty Rating. Minor effects = minor difficulty, substantial effects = substantial difficulty. If you're trying to do multiple improvements the Difficulty Rating can quickly become so high you have no chance of success, so don't expect to turn a BB gun into a hyper-velocity gauss rifle anytime soon ... or probably at all.

As to what's allowed, that depends entirely on what CDPR codes into CP2077, one of the advantages of a human GM, more flexibility.
 
I always like the "side grade" system over the "upgrade" system when it comes to equipment. I would rather see 5 different handguns that are all about the same overall stats, with minor differences between them as far as performance and such. So you'd have the high damage, low accuracy gun, and one which low damage but super accurate, along with all the variants in between. That way it's more about picking weapons that compliment your build or playstyle, instead of just going for "the better gun". Having 5 guns that have the same total "stats" but spread out differently is a lot more interesting than simply having a progression of guns that get better and better than the last. Because that ends up with everyone just using the same "best items" in the end, and there's no reason to use anything but. A character with lower shooting skill could go for a gun that has the most accuracy to compensate for their lack of skill (or just go shotgun). :p

That said, it's nice when those weapons can be further customized by the player. So you can further enhance what a weapon's good at, or tune it to balance out the stats (add more aim or stability to a strong gun that's hard to use... or just increase the caliber and go for even more damage).
 
Modifying a firearm isn't something most folks have the skills or tools needed to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYTb2elcpJo

The above will give you an idea what's involved in "building" a simple sniper rifle.

And you certainly don't just bore out the chamber and barrel and use a larger caliber round!
Well .. you could .. maybe ... but I'd never fire it because by boring out the chamber you'll have seriously weakened it ... there's an excellent chance a larger caliber round with more propellant will cause it to explode.
 
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Suhiira;n9776141 said:
Modifying a firearm isn't something most folks have the skills or tools needed to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYTb2elcpJo

The above will give you an idea what's involved in "building" a simple sniper rifle.

And you certainly don't just bore out the chamber and barrel and use a larger caliber round!
Well .. you could .. maybe ... but I'd never fire it because by boring out the chamber you'll have seriously weakened it ... there's an excellent chance a larger caliber round with more propellant will cause it to explode.

I've spent a good many evenings watching those fellas... Still miss Barry though

ANYHOO! Yeah, gunsmithing is precision work. And on top of that, imagine some of the brain interface ones. How complicated would that be?! Nobody but a techie should be doing any SERIOUS work to one. Yeah, changing a stock, or a trigger really aren't all that bad, nor is building a functioning AR if you have all the parts. But the fluted barrel talked about in that video? No way in hell I'm trying that at home
 
BjornTheBandit;n9790681 said:
Nobody but a techie should be doing any SERIOUS work to one.
And that's why that "class" exists in the game.
Because you need an expert (with the right skills/tools) to do expert level work.
Techs FTW!
 

Tieco

Forum regular
I love crafting and agree it should have a place in CP2077. However, this is not a fantasy setting, so it should have some changes.

Level restrictions should be avoided, IMO, as there were none in the original pnp game. If levels are in the 2077, no gear should be level based.

Instead, I suggest other limiting factors. Minimum skill in hand gun or something would make so what more sense. As others have suggested. Shooting at some disadvange if you don't meet the min skill. Limits could also be imposed by costs as punks are suppose to be poor. This one will be tough though as eb/gold inflation tends to happen over time in most games.

Standard crafting could revolve around mods to a base line gun: scopes, barrel changes, bigger clips, maybe grips? etc. Since Techs are a thing, maybe a "Jury rigged compenent" slot that uses player crafted widgets to add some bonus.

And the last element should be how Style Over Substance is achieved in crafting. No one is impressed with your hot pink Teen Dream, your Malorian 3516 is another matter...
 
Tieco;n9793651 said:
And the last element should be how Style Over Substance is achieved in crafting. No one is impressed with your hot pink Teen Dream, your Malorian 3516 is another matter...
Here I'll disagree.
Other clueless types will be.
Just check YouTube for "Best Weapon" vids, you'll find plenty people that have no clue what they're talking about explaining why their opinion matters.
 

Tieco

Forum regular
Suhiira;n9796951 said:
Here I'll disagree.
Other clueless types will be.
Just check YouTube for "Best Weapon" vids, you'll find plenty people that have no clue what they're talking about explaining why their opinion matters.

Oh I didn't mean to imply it would be easy. :)
 
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