Other games and Cyberpunk 2077: what could latter borrow from them?

[SigilFey]

I'm torn on this one. I would love to see a mechanic like weapon jamming / forgetting the safety / having trouble reloading / etc. In team-based games (XCOM and the like) this adds the possibility for exciting problem solving. I have other team members that I can use to resolve this situation, and I have a sense of challenge and reward overcoming it. However, if the game is focused only on one character (ala Witcher 3), then I'm usually not sold on such mechanics. Inherently, it's just making me mash a button before I go right back to shooting. Kind of just wasting my time as a player. Now, if my gun jams and I'm forced to find another gun, switch to melee, or find a way to escape...that would be something I think is worth it. Stepping outside of your role should carry big risks.

 

[Suhiira]

I didn't think for a second you were talking about the orginal.

Sorry, but I have no desire to pick nits about a minor point from an example used.

You are right, I was wrong.
End of story.
Happy?

I genuinely did not realize people considered a game an ARPG just if it has a skill system. <clip>

Unfortunately many do.
It's, of course, nothing but your typical Marketing ploy of taking a popular term and tacking it to your product to increase sales.

Precisely what I'm trying to figure out. It seems people think a skill system alone (and possibly multiple-choice dialogue?) makes a game an RPG. Not people in these forums, necessarily, but just the general public. It boggles my mind.

Yours and mine both.

 

[Sardukhar]

Precisely what I'm trying to figure out. It seems people think a skill system alone (and possibly multiple-choice dialogue?) makes a game an RPG. Not people in these forums, necessarily, but just the general public. It boggles my mind.

I think this has a lot to do with people liking categories and genres, and Marketing like WoW and Skyrim sales numbers.

 

[Guest 4149880]

I'd like to see CDPR make a CP2077 a classic-RPG is all

Can you elaborate on what type of game you'd like 2077 to be, from gameplay mechanics and RPG systems? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Suhiira]

Can you elaborate on what type of game you'd like 2077 to be, from gameplay mechanics and RPG systems? I'm genuinely curious.

Something like a modernized version of Bloodlines would be perfect.

It's certainly NOT a "turn-based" system, but it's also not a "twitch" style FPS game either.
Good story, skills that matter, decent amount of dialog and options (mostly based on Clan), sufficient amount of gear that was not upgradable but each had it own advantages/disadvantages.

They did a pretty darn good job of turning a PnP game into a video game.

 

[Meccanical]

Something like a modernized version of Bloodlines would be perfect.

It's certainly NOT a "turn-based" system, but it's also not a "twitch" style FPS game either.
Good story, skills that matter, decent amount of dialog and options (mostly based on Clan), sufficient amount of gear that was not upgradable but each had it own advantages/disadvantages.

They did a pretty darn good job of turning a PnP game into a video game.

This is pretty much what I want as well.

 

[Sardukhar]

Something like a modernized version of Bloodlines would be perfect.

It's certainly NOT a "turn-based" system, but it's also not a "twitch" style FPS game either.
Good story, skills that matter, decent amount of dialog and options (mostly based on Clan), sufficient amount of gear that was not upgradable but each had it own advantages/disadvantages.

They did a pretty darn good job of turning a PnP game into a video game.

OHMIGOD YES. Sadly less likely - maybe Obsidian's next huge RPG, not out until 2019+, being done by Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain?

I'd add to this some kind of turn-based/bullet time system to simulate jacked up super reflexes...and, yes, vehicles would be nice.

 

[Snowflakez]

OHMIGOD YES. Sadly less likely - maybe Obsidian's next huge RPG, not out until 2019+, being done by Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain?

I'd add to this some kind of turn-based/bullet time system to simulate jacked up super reflexes...and, yes, vehicles would be nice.

Yeah, I don't think there's even a 5% chance that we see that with 2077, but I too would love to see it in another RPG. Also, wat? Obsidian's working on another RPG? Yes, please!

 

[Suhiira]

I'd add to this some kind of turn-based/bullet time system to simulate jacked up super reflexes...and, yes, vehicles would be nice.

Actually the way VATS worked in Fallout 4 would be excellent for super reflexes.
You're given a little extra time to pick your aiming point. This would work fine with both RPG (character skill) system and FPS (player skill) systems; just eliminate the part that allows you to select a hit box on your target for FPS and let player skill rule.

 

[Guest 4149880]

New mechanic.

The CRPG Drone Mode. The player of Cyberpunk 2077 (a TPS/FPS game) can purchase a optional drone that allows them to deploy it during combat which then turns the game into a temporary CRPG (Classic Role Playing Game, In Isometric View) with options of turn based, real time and targeting systems that allows for better combat options and perspective which also provide squad control and commands.

 

[Snowflakez]

New mechanic.

The CRPG Drone Mode. The player of Cyberpunk 2077 (a TPS/FPS game) can purchase a optional drone that allows them to deploy it during combat which then turns the game into a temporary CRPG (Classic Role Playing Game, In Isometric View) with options of turn based, real time and targeting systems that allows for better combat options and perspective which also provide squad control and commands.

I think at some point you run the risk of trying to be too many things and failing to be any of them. But if this were a mechanic in a vaccum -- as in, one that doesn't affect the development resources of other aspects of the game, nor does it compromise the main focus -- I'd be all for it. Sounds neat.

 

[Guest 4149880]

I think at some point you run the risk of trying to be too many things and failing to be any of them. But if this were a mechanic in a vaccum -- as in, one that doesn't affect the development resources of other aspects of the game, nor does it compromise the main focus -- I'd be all for it. Sounds neat.

Which are most ideas put forth on the forums. They're just ideas without context to the many other factors that go along with game development, so I'm not really taking development cost, time and resources into consideration, that's not what I'm here for personally. I just like to brainstorm ideas.

With the mass amount of detail coming from Cyberpunk 2020, it seems near impossible to even think about how to even imagine 2077 playing in video game form. The more ideas put out there, who knows what the team at CDPR could possible take inspiration from here on the forums if at all. CDPR might not discuss much with us here, But I know they're watching.

 

[Mefris]

CDPR might not discuss much with us here, But I know they're watching.

They be creepin',snatching yo ideas up!

The CRPG Drone Mode. The player of Cyberpunk 2077 (a TPS/FPS game) can purchase a optional drone that allows them to deploy it during combat which then turns the game into a temporary CRPG (Classic Role Playing Game, In Isometric View) with options of turn based, real time and targeting systems that allows for better combat options and perspective which also provide squad control and commands.

That would be really,really hard to do and the game would have to be made from the ground up to explicitly facilitate that feature which seems a lot more work than necessary (different type of UI,additional pathingfinding AI,buildings becoming translucent to actually see what you're doing etc).At that point they would be making two different games altogether in the space of one and both parts would suffer as a result.

 

[metalmaniac21]

-System Shock franchise
-Minigames. Yo dawg I herd you like playing games, so how about we put a game inside a game so you'll play while you play?

That would be really,really hard to do and the game would have to be made from the ground up to explicitly facilitate that feature which seems a lot more work than necessary (different type of UI,additional pathingfinding AI,buildings becoming translucent to actually see what you're doing etc).

And how this feature is worse and worth less attention and work then any other really hard to do CDPR are currently working on? Of anything, it's better since it adds depth and variety into gameplay and potentially bring stats to work.

 

[Guest 4149880]

They be creepin',snatching yo ideas up!




That would be really,really hard to do and the game would have to be made from the ground up to explicitly facilitate that feature which seems a lot more work than necessary (different type of UI,additional pathingfinding AI,buildings becoming translucent to actually see what you're doing etc).At that point they would be making two different games altogether in the space of one and both parts would suffer as a result.

With all due respect, I hadn't realized you might be one of those ex CDPR developer who knows the ins and outs. Yeah, every and all features are hard to implement in the first place, so any idea created would be wrong, that's how all awesome ideas are created. I don't need a game design lesson from someone who's probably never worked on a AAA video game in the actual game industry, correct me if I'm wrong. Lets allow some creative freedom and all.

And CDPR does want player ideas and input when they pose gameplay related questions.

 

[Snowflakez]

Which are most ideas put forth on the forums. They're just ideas without context to the many other factors that go along with game development, so I'm not really taking development cost, time and resources into consideration, that's not what I'm here for personally. I just like to brainstorm ideas.

With the mass amount of detail coming from Cyberpunk 2020, it seems near impossible to even think about how to even imagine 2077 playing in video game form. The more ideas put out there, who knows what the team at CDPR could possible take inspiration from here on the forums if at all. CDPR might not discuss much with us here, But I know they're watching.

Fair enough! That should have been pretty obvious already, I suppose.

Well like I said, I think it's a good idea, and one that would fit well with both the theme of the game and be a nice way of blending two styles together.

I think The Division also had drone gameplay of some sort, where the drone player acted as sort of "overwatch" for the rest of the group. That player accessed the game via a tablet, I think.

And Mefris, I agree with you from an outer game design standpoint, but Beast makes a good point. Better to suggest an idea that CDPR won't implement than never suggest it at all for fear of dev time concerns.

That said, I think there's plenty of times where it's appropriate to bring up such concerns, if for no other reason than to manage people's expectations. Its one thing to suggest the idea, it's another to truly believe that the game will cater to them all. I've seen that a few times throughout the forums, and I just feel like those individuals are setting themselves up for disappointment (granted, mostly people newer to the forums).

I think Suh mentioned wanting a classic RPG mode and an Action RPG mode to cater to both audiences, but that's probably not realistic IMO (like you said, itd be like making two different games). But good ideas were still discussed and CDPR may pick and choose a few of them to balance both playstyles in one way or another.

 

[sv3672]

That said, I think there's plenty of times where it's appropriate to bring up such concerns, if for no other reason than to manage people's expectations. Its one thing to suggest the idea, it's another to truly believe that the game will cater to them all. I've seen that a few times throughout the forums, and I just feel like those individuals are setting themselves up for disappointment (granted, mostly people newer to the forums).

Reminds me of all the speculation on Bethesda's forums about the great features that would come to Fallout 4, over the months after the announcement. Hopefully in this case there will not be a disappointment like then.

 

[Mefris]

And how this feature is worse and worth less attention and work then any other really hard to do CDPR are currently working on? Of anything, it's better since it adds depth and variety into gameplay and potentially bring stats to work.

Yes,it would add both of those things.The problem is that you can't add another completely different combat system midway through development.A feature like this needs to be conceptualized at the beginning of development because everything in the world needs to be built with it in mind.Interior assets need to be placed in such a way to work for both isometric and FPS/TPS play.Exterior assets need to be designed to accommodate issometric view because you'd be able to see things you normally wouldn't from a TPS/FPS perspective.You would also have to make a system like in XCOM where,depending on camera position,floors,walls and any other objects in the environment become translucent so you could actually see what you are doing.Fog of War has to be added to the issometric view to properly portray what the player can see and interact with.There would have to be two different versions of the UI,two distinct ways of targeting abilities and so forth.All that in a huge world and for an optional feature that is used just for combat.

And just to make myself perfectly clear:I'm not saying it's a bad idea,on the contrary,it would be something pretty cool to see in a game.My point is that it would be a monumental task to do something like this at this stage of development and they already have their hands full making a bajillion other features.

With all due respect, I hadn't realized you might be one of those ex CDPR developer who knows the ins and outs[...]I don't need a game design lesson from someone who's probably never worked on a AAA video game in the actual game industry, correct me if I'm wrong.

Quite frankly I think your attitude is uncalled for and unwarranted.I might be mistaken but I thought this was a forum,which by definition,is a place to discuss and exchange ideas without prerequisites.Also,I fail to see how my post can be even remotely interpreted as "giving a lecture".No, I have not worked on a AAA title (not as a game developer at least) and,I'm going to go out on a limb here,neither have you (and most of the people on this forum for that matter).So what?We can't discuss each others ideas?I see that hasn't stopped you so why should it stop others?Also,what do you mean by "actual game industry"?Is there another one I'm not aware of?At one point I worked as a game tester for Ubisoft Craiova,does that count?

Lets allow some creative freedom and all.

You're acting as if I criticized a work of art you did and I "just don't get it" which I find quite funny.

And CDPR does want player ideas and input when they pose gameplay related questions.

And me replying to your post somehow undermines that.How,I don't know,but it does.Apparently.

And Mefris, I agree with you from an outer game design standpoint, but Beast makes a good point. Better to suggest an idea that CDPR won't implement than never suggest it at all for fear of dev time concerns.

But where in my post did I say otherwise?Does me giving my opinion about an idea somehow make it disappear or be less valuable?

Reminds me of all the speculation on Bethesda's forums about the great features that would come to Fallout 4, over the months after the announcement. Hopefully in this case there will not be a disappointment like then.

Sadly we've had to deal with a lot of disappointments lately.I hope you're right and we'll get another "Witcher" instead of a ME:Andromeda or a Fallout 4.

 

[Sardukhar]

Mefris is right.

This is a discussion forum. We all get to discuss. Politely. Calmly. Hopefully respectfully. Regardless of qualifications or lack thereof.

If you have a problem with someone else's opinion, either a) don't say anything or b) take issue on the particulars.
Pros screw up - and player opinions aren't automatically garbage without some kind of degree.

Also, if you're going to defend your idea, defend the idea/perspective. Not yourself - that tends to make it worse. You can, of course, politely ask for a nicer tone or a more open mind, but that's it. I don't want a fight, I want a conversation. If someone is belittling you, or you think they are, ignore them.

If you put your idea out there, either expect to defend it or be prepared to not talk much about it. Discussion. Forum.

I think all Solos should wear rabbit ears. It's a stupid idea and if someone calls me on it (politely) I can either defend it or move on.

I think (nearly)all Solos should have skinweave. Much less stupid idea and I can heartily defend it. I won't, though, because I prefer my prey VULNERABLE.

 

[Snowflakez]

-snip

You didn't. Apologies. At any rate, I agree with you.