What do you think the "Tactical Mode" will be about?(will it be something like VATS?)

[kofeiiniturpa]

I will be personally be VERY unhappy if it's your typical shooter in terms of combat mechanics. And most "bullet time" mechanics, while great for the "twitch" crowd are still to reflexes dependent for me

A ”realistic shooter with bullet time” is a no-go for me (I tried a few sandbox and ” immersive sim” shooters with some loose character progression recently and they don’t do anything for me anymore). It’s not necessarily bad in it’s own right, but I’m just not interested in the slightest.

 

[Loostreaks]

A ”realistic shooter with bullet time” is a no-go for me (I tried a few sandbox and ” immersive sim” shooters with some loose character progression recently and they don’t do anything for me anymore). It’s not necessarily bad in it’s own right, but I’m just not interested in the slightest.

I expect a very large majority of players would say the same for turn based systems. Not that they're bad in their own right ( or they're not familiar how they work).

What is important is that CDPR really carefully considers what type of gameplay suits the setting of the game ( Witcher III's scripted/zoned encounters were too restrictive for an open world game, in comparison to games like Horizon, Far Cry, etc).

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I expect a very large majority of players would say the same for turn based systems.

Of course. And those feeling vocal about it have said so, some more than once. I'm in agreement with those people that they should not buy something they know they won't be liking. They have the rest of the industry to choose a substitute from, though, so it'd not be too big a loss.

It is, however, already been established that the game (almost certainly) won't be turnbased and I haven't been asking for that in years (aside from elements int he implied "tactical mode" of which we know nothing about). My ideal for core gameplay and core combat would still not be going for a complete opposite, a "realistic shooter", but something that at least attempted to close the gap between RPG and action shooter.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

My ideal for core gameplay and core combat would still not be going for a complete opposite, a "realistic shooter", but something that at least attempted to close the gap between RPG and action shooter.

can you elaborate?

 

[Guest 4149880]

Action oriented gameplay in third/first person with automatic AI controlled team mates mixed with tactical shadowrun style the player can switch on the fly to allow for better control and situational awareness and control and command AI. Almost like a drone flies above to give you a better view from above while giving commands to your squad.

 

[metalmaniac21]

Action oriented gameplay in third/first person with automatic AI controlled team mates mixed with tactical shadowrun style the player can switch on the fly to allow for better control and situational awareness and control and command AI. Almost like a drone flies above to give you a better view from above while giving commands to your squad.

Buy a drone is you want oldschool gameplay, lol. Other than that, pretty neat, no one ever did this before. It's your chance, CDPR.

 

[Rawls]

I'd be okay with something like VATS I suppose ... I didn't really like it, but I realized about 2 hours into the game I could just totally ignore it.

 

[metalmaniac21]

I'd be okay with something like VATS I suppose ... I didn't really like it, but I realized about 2 hours into the game I could just totally ignore it.

VATS has nothing tactical in it and is total decline, neither FPS crowd nor RPG or TBS crowd liked it.

 

[Guest 4149880]

Buy a drone is you want oldschool gameplay, lol. Other than that, pretty neat, no one ever did this before. It's your chance, CDPR.

Think about it, it would be a way for the game to integrate high tech gear into the gameplay mechanics but not require it for everyone. I like the idea. Your character has a drone control arm device, and the drone on your back, activate and fly the drone up around over the combat area that gives you not only a view advantage, but could provide tactical updates, information on your player character and the entire squad and the enemies. It would be like real time RTS, and with a tap of a button, drone camera deactivates flies back and game returns to your characters perspective and continue fighting. Fuckin love this idea really.

 

[metalmaniac21]

Think about it, it would be a way for the game to integrate high tech gear into the gameplay mechanics but not require it for everyone. I like the idea. Your character has a drone control arm device, and the drone on your back, activate and fly the drone up around over the combat area that gives you not only a view advantage, but could provide tactical updates, information on your player character and the entire squad and the enemies. It would be like real time RTS, and with a tap of a button, drone camera deactivates flies back and game returns to your characters perspective and continue fighting. Fuckin love this idea really.

It's a good way to shove a new never seen mechanic to otherwise uninterested but open-minded player, but if we just want an menu option "tactical mode", wouldn't it just override the drone?

 

[Guest 4149880]

It's a good way to shove a new never seen mechanic to otherwise uninterested but open-minded player, but if we just want an menu option "tactical mode", wouldn't it just override the drone?

Just to play the whole game in one mode or another? Sure but why separate modes when the game could seamlessly use both within the game? If the game is truly as massive open world as they say, I personally wouldn't want such a restrictive RTS style perspective just for moving about the environment, talking to NPC. Mostly just for combat instances for tactical awareness.

Action gameplay in first/third person with optional ability to use and activate a drone, remote control tech for real time RTS overhead view combat option activated on the fly. Different drone options for different advantages. The drone can allow you to command over the entire squad as well as your player character while in RTS mode, giving the player better tactical options. Once drone is deactivated, player is returned to controlling your single character while squad returns to AI controlled.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

can you elaborate?

I have. Many times (to you also). But I’ll get back to it later when I have more time.

 

[Rawls]

remote control tech for real time RTS overhead view combat option activated on the fly. Different drone options for different advantages. The drone can allow you to command over the entire squad as well as your player character while in RTS mode, giving the player better tactical options. Once drone is deactivated, player is returned to controlling your single character while squad returns to AI controlled.

I like it. Give the option for command and scout rather than jump straight in. Clever. Certainly beats VATS.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

can you elaborate?

I wish I had a bookmark on every post where I have elaborated on that.

First off, game made for third person. First person as more like a vanity mode (for closer inspection of the world)

All the primary attributes at play (INT, COOL/WILL, REF, ATTR, TECH, EMPATHY) and around 8 skills under each. 6 skill career packages plus 3 pickup skills and the the Role Special at char creation. Roughly!

Cursor driven (pont'n click able, but WASD works too) with dynamics on it similiar to old point'n click adventures (turning the arrow into an eye or a hand or a mouth or a cogwheel... that kind of stuff, not literally those, but context sensitive variations fitting wth CP for interacting with stuff).

Lots of little interactivity as decribed here.

Slow paced movement (almost simulation-like) that denies running 24/7 around the city (unless your character is cybered up) without any sings of exhaustion. This to keep the players attention on his more immediate surroundings than being in a hurry to everywhre at once. Travel options around the city. Personal vehicle driving as a skill driven minigame (random encounters and happenstances based on driving skill if used in fast travel).

Combat being quick and deadly skirmishes. Relying on the players ability to maneuver (affected by MA stat) and choose targets and timing the shots, while the character does the aiming (active "press'n hold" target lock, hit chances based on a set of variables, largest of which the characters own skill at shooting the gun at hand). Plenty of action and some player skill required, but still character driven and true to the RPG roots (and most importantly, not being a typical fucking shooter). Hit chances are scary, I know, but the combat event would more about timing your shots when the character is getting his best chances, so unless you resort into sparying and praying and generally just flailing around, only few shots are fired, and while some WILL miss, the amount is likely to be neglicable (you'd miss a few shot in a shooter too...).

Plus the titular "tactical mode" as an option which'd pause the game and allow the player to assess the situation and queu up one or two actions from a range of options and let them play out as per the character giving his best shot at it, to then return to a paused state.

That's it in a nutshell.

Overall a game that embraces it's RPG roots, and while still offering lots of action and shooting and explosions, works more like an adventure game. Not really comparable to any current sandbox FPS games, not even those pretending to be RPG's.

That's the sort of compromise I'd hope for (or the outlines of it at least).

 

[Suhiira]

Oh feel free to allow players to perform FPS "tactics" like circle-strafing, firing at the run, and bunny hopping ... just realistically penalize their characters ability to hit anything when performing such "tactics".

You see that's the real problem with most FPS games, they not only permit, but encourage totally unrealistic combat.

 

[Sardukhar]

Oh feel free to allow players to perform "standard" FPS maneuvers like circle-strafing, firing at the run, and bunny hopping ... just penalize their characters ability to hit anything when performing such "tactics" realistically.

You see that's the real problem with most FPS games, they not only permit, but encourage totally unrealistic combat.

I find it's because of the frequency of the combat - you need to relax the punitive mechanism so people can go nuts. Also because real life is slow on a small screen.

So I played Xcom the Bureau, an FPS. It had a Tactical Mode. It was clumsy..but it had promise.

The real drag was the perspective. If you could have zoomed up and out it would have been a lot better, I think.

 

[Loostreaks]

Ideally I see it as combination of:





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You're given a simple mission/goal, usually set in a localized zone, multiple levels/traversal methods and it's fully up to you how to accomplish it.
A fixer could come up with fake uniform to pass the front gate, Rockerboy use diplomacy, Netrunner create security bypass, etc.
2077 would use it's open world instead of railroading the player through cutscenes....different entry points, all with different pros/cons, obstacles and levels of security. AI and security systems would affect one another, making missions much more dynamic...bring down power grid, but security quickly goes to high alert afterwards. Or take out too many guards and you have brief window before backup arrives and surrounds the perimeter...always keep player engaged through this kind of decision making ( instead of shooting everyone with sleeping darts).
Even a fully stocked, high "level" solo would have to access situation, keep conflicts localized, planned and under control...fights would be brief, deadly and in small numbers ( if you've alerted an army: run)
And like in Deus Ex, player and character skill would both come into play.
Sandbox of player skill, character building( affecting character skill and role specific opportunities), planning ( reconaissance, specific equipment for the job, set consumables), situational/level awareness ( shortcuts, methods of traversal), interaction with environment ( like with "Immersive sims", even weapons can be Tools...Glue gun, need I say more? ).

Even with flawed execution, this would be drastically better and more engaging than either crpgs ( here there is option a/b/c, skill check %, success/failure) or pure action games ( typically good gameplay, but also get monotonous/repetitive in long hour titles).

 

[Guest 4149880]

I like it. Give the option for command and scout rather than jump straight in. Clever. Certainly beats VATS.

And while in combat, the drone operates as a real time strategy game with live action, not turn based. So the combat would flow the same as it would while in character action in first/third person. I haven't seen this done before anywhere. Sure drones aren't anything new but from I've seen in games, they're mainly for just scouting and stealth which should also be included. Not seen them used to change the entire style of combat instantly and still remains immersive to transition back and forth.

Something resembling this while in Tactical Mode. With various optic modes and squad commands.

 

[Guest 4149880]

The real drag was the perspective. If you could have zoomed up and out it would have been a lot better, I think.

Read my posts about the drone used for squad RTS style Tactical Mode, it would deal with perspective issues.

 

[Sardukhar]

Read my posts about the drone used for squad RTS style Tactical Mode, it would deal with perspective issues.

Yeah, that would work.