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Cyberpunk 2077 Release Date, Updates and Speculation Thread

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  • #16
    Originally posted by decatonkeil
    You're obviously selectively forgetting a lot of cool designs that DEHR. had when it came to cybernetics, there was a lot more than just "secret agent" looks: you had full body conversions that made people look like anatomical models with a penis-case and you also had very bulky looking cyber that the harvesters of Hengsha were sporting:

    The only thing that really disappointed me when it came to cybernetics in that game was that I thought they had the perfect excuse to make your modifications alter your appearance, and then they did the praxis points thing... The cyber-renaissance thing wasn't overdone and it was interesting.
    Now if you were talking about DE, it was very limited technologically, but it looked a lot like a Paul Verhoeven movie. DE: IW looked too tame, every character looked like it belonged in the sims.
    Oh, I quitte digged some cybernetics actually, but the fact that the game has only three colors:
    - Black
    - Yellow
    - Grey

    Really made the world... I don't know, I'd say "bland".
    Yep, some Cyber are cool, but still, it's always the same things, you have 3 templates used and re-used over and over.

    I didn't said DE was pure shit, but it lacked the crazyness of what I'd call a "real cyberpunk" world.

    Look at CP77 trailer, there are colors, citizen have a lot of different outfits, etc...

    Deus Ex was more "template" friendly, if you see what I mean.

    For CP77, I'd love to see some cyber like in DE, something more "Solo / Killer for hire", mixed with more asthetics implants, just like some bimbo puts silicones in their breasts, with a wide possibility for customisation.

    And yes, still, for the most part, those cybernetics are black, very "army-looking", it lacks some "artsy" style, if you see what I mean, they're not bad, but I'd loved more diversity about it.

    Like some looking like this:





    You know? Different art-style for different brand, etc...
    Now, that would add a lot of "deepness" to the crowd, more than an army of clones.

    I guess a stripper would get some "sexy implants", like cyber arms/legs who would look like sexy "fleshy" ones, like this:


    more than bulky armored ones....

    No one want to look at a tank wiggling it's butt on a pole lol.

    Some could even be just invisible, looking like real body parts
    Last edited by Maelcom404; 17-11-14, 18:24.

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    • #17
      We haven't really seen how much color and variety will there be in CP2077. We only have CDPR's word that they think that "bleak, grim & gritty, always raining" has been done to death, and that they aim to do something more varied and colorful.
      And like I said, it's a Mike Pondsmith's Cyberpunk brand to have cyber be a fashion statement (I wouldn't go as far as to say it's true for all cyberpunk as a genre), so if we're given a lot of customization options, maybe there will be a possibility for us and the NPCs to look more 80s vibe. I've already said a million times that I'd love to have different customized looks for safehouses based on the diffetent flavors of cyberpunk and derivatives (cyberpunk, postcyberpunk, steampunk, dieselpunk, decopunk, atompunk, biopunk...) and the same would be true for clothing and cybernetics. This modern cyberpunk look that we've seen in the trailer may just be the "neutral" look that most everything will have, but maybe we'll see subcultures that are based on these genres. I think that way everybody wins.

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      • #18
        Well, he was pretty on point when talking about fashion.
        Just look at how much different looking cellphone you can have... which ultimately do the same thing.

        I can see the cyber being the same, you'd have to have a wide variety of arms, legs, etc....
        Because people will integrate them to their style, and by so, it shows who you are, style over substance.

        If you see someone with bulky cybers, you can assume he works in security or something, the same as the girl in the trailer would more be like a stripper or something, that's what I was talking about.

        Comment


        • #19
          See the thing is, while films, television and many video games have been ripping off Blade Runner elements since the film's release, there are never ever been a game that has completely captured what would be like to control a character within that world, with open world mechanics, drivable flying cars, cyborgs, massive cities and futuristic weapons.

          I want this to be that game tbh, so I'm all for the bulky, gritty and grimy future aesthetic for this game.

          Comment


          • #20
            Cyberpunk, as the 80's envisioned it, is dead. Early cyberpunk played up the fears of the era, of a financially successful Japan that had immense influence and lording over our declining America and its moral rot. A lot of the stuff simply does not apply anymore (particularly the godawful made-up jargon), and it'd be a mistake to try to cling to that old idea of what the future would be like in a genre that's all about confronting our rose-tinted views of the future.

            Transhumanism's the big deal nowadays, and I think 2077 can have a lot more success if it made itself a reaction to modern transhumanism. Yeah, have some Mass Effect styling, give it that beautiful look that we so associate with Apple products and smartphones. But make it be ugly underneath. Where Eclipse Phase dreams of resleeving to solve death, 2077 should show how unfeasible that pipe dream is. Let there be people who think they've "uploaded" themselves to what amounts to little more than chatterbots. Let the "supercomputers" run hot and draw more power than the people running them can afford. Remove the utopian element of modern transhumanism and make it confront reality.

            To hell with trying to juggle the mental gymnastics of making the old 2020 canon when it quite clearly can't be. Extrapolate from today, from twenty minutes in the future, make it address today's concerns as we face down Big Brother and ponder the motivations of Google. Where we buy the latest electronics just to toss them out two years later for the new model. Where poor people are duped into buying more than they can afford and being plunged into debt over that couch they had no business buying.

            The trailer did a very good job on focusing on something that has endured from classic 2020: cyberpsychosis. It's dissociative, hopeless, unfeeling. That's something that should be central to 2077. Not the "humanity loss" in the sense that the 80's feared it (no one's artificial hip made them a roaming psychopath), but the feeling that flesh is meaningless and valueless should feed into that psychopathic tendency. We already have the mass shootings getting all this attention, it's not hard to imagine that being a living weapon can make it hard to resist just lashing out at everyone around you when you've seen it happen on TV so often. Are these outbursts self-fulfilling prophecies, people lashing out after being told they're going to lash out?

            I think that's a better way to go about this than clamoring for how cyberpunk used to be.

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            • #21
              We have never had a 80s retrofuturistic open world game EVER. the transhuman 90s cyberpunk is BLAH. not interested.
              "James is still cool. He's always been cool."

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by animalfather
                We have never had a 80s retrofuturistic open world game EVER. the transhuman 90s cyberpunk is BLAH. not interested.
                It hurts me in EVERY WAY to say this, but I totally agree with animal.

                And I like Eclipse Phase...it's just not Cyberpunk.

                I think the charm of 2077 is going to be when they blend the 80/early90s fashion and style with high tech and futureshock culture.
                All posts are typically and brilliantly my own, unless you see my Moderator Voice. | We have Rules! Read 'em! | Visit the Forlorn Hope! |For OFF TOPIC, our Community Section is here to service you!

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                • #23
                  Doesn't Far Cry: Blood Dragon count?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by poet_and_gentleman
                    Doesn't Far Cry: Blood Dragon count?

                    No.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Looks like an 80s retrofuturistic open world game to me.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by helmic
                        Cyberpunk, as the 80's envisioned it, is dead. Early cyberpunk played up the fears of the era, of a financially successful Japan that had immense influence and lording over our declining America and its moral rot. A lot of the stuff simply does not apply anymore (particularly the godawful made-up jargon), and it'd be a mistake to try to cling to that old idea of what the future would be like in a genre that's all about confronting our rose-tinted views of the future.

                        Transhumanism's the big deal nowadays, and I think 2077 can have a lot more success if it made itself a reaction to modern transhumanism. [...]

                        To hell with trying to juggle the mental gymnastics of making the old 2020 canon when it quite clearly can't be. Extrapolate from today, from twenty minutes in the future, make it address today's concerns as we face down Big Brother and ponder the motivations of Google. Where we buy the latest electronics just to toss them out two years later for the new model. Where poor people are duped into buying more than they can afford and being plunged into debt over that couch they had no business buying. [...]

                        I think that's a better way to go about this than clamoring for how cyberpunk used to be.
                        What needs to be redone is not cyberpunk as a concept (like you said it: "Extrapolate from today, from twenty minutes in the future, make it address today's concerns". That's pretty much it). Transhumanism is but one facet of a greater whole. It should not be the focus only because "it's the big deal nowadays". Cyberpunk is larger than that. So while I can agree that cyberpunk of 80's "is dead" (in a way) I can't agree that emphasis on transhumanism is the way to go.

                        On related note I would be surprised to see a return to 80's/90's fashion and style (like the whole game being designed that way). We are to extrapolate into the future, but from the present. How much 80's and 90's we have around now? It might not be a big deal in the end, but it'll jar me a bit if only reason for so doing is nostalgia. It'll scream: "This isn't the future! This stuff never came to pass to begin with! How you expect me to take your vision of the future seriously?!". A bit immersion breaking. It'd be acceptable in an alternate reality, but in the future? Not so much. And if someone claims that without "a proper" art style "the game would no longer be cyberpunk" then it's clear to me he does not understand what cyberpunk is in the first place.
                        Last edited by Holy.Death; 01-12-14, 09:09.

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                        • #27
                          Actually quite a bit from the 80s and 90s is still around.
                          Clothing styles have been fairly consistent since the 80's (no 60s neon/tie-dye or 70s polyester).
                          Vehicle styles also have been fairly consistent (a car from the 80s looks pretty much the same as one you'd buy now - yeah new ones have more gizmos in them but the body style is about the same).
                          While cell phones have become MUCH more versatile the basic concept of portable communications started then.
                          The internet has blossomed but it really got got going in the 80s.
                          "When you talk you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

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                          • #28
                            People should read more cyberpunk outside of Gibson :/
                            Transhumanism means nothing, except for "random dude with implant".
                            It's just enhancing your body.
                            What is supposed to be the background in "transhumanism"?

                            Cyberpunk is mostly about transhumanism, but transhumanism isn't about cyberpunk
                            Just look at the tv show "real human"

                            It's filled with transhumanism themes and all, "what make us human? can a robot become an human then?"
                            Yes it's cool, I recomend this show to everyone, but I'll suckerpunch the first person to call it "cyberpunk".

                            In Gibson, sure, Neuromancer is all about "omg, japan is badass" (mostly because... it happens in Japan), and to be honnest, Japan keep on ruling on a lot of things today, just check the "Toyota management guide", it's pretty creepy, and no, it's not cyberpunk, it's real life...
                            But check out some Sterling, Spinrad, Jon Williams, etc...
                            They barely talk about japan, or whatever, but it's all in the mood and all those things, you can still see our today's world in a over-the-top way.

                            And just to add this, in Cyberpunk 2077 it'll be almost once century that people hang around with cyber-body parts or implants, I think that no one give a fuck about the "transhumanism" anymore, it's common
                            Today, we're not like "Omg a Cellphone! where are we going? are we still humans?"
                            We all have phones, etc... It doesn't scare anyone.

                            Now, just tell you that, in the cyberpunk 2077 world, they've dealed with cybernetics for longer than we have deal with cellphones and internet, so yes, excepted for a bunch of luddite, no one freak about cybernetics, it's all part of their world.

                            Now, it's what cyberpunk is supposed to be.
                            You don't "freak" about hi-tech, you just deal your daily shitty life, as a random person in a city populated by billions.
                            Cyberpunk is more about the "social" than the "Tech".
                            From a cyberpunk game, I'd expect a lot of work on the "social" side, with a lot of critics on our today world, not in a "direct" way (it's not Michael Moore lol), but by building a world, similar to our, pushed in the future, and pulling all the broken things over the top.

                            In 80's cyberpunk, they talked about rise of megacorporations eating the smaller one, the ultra rich living in their crystal city, explosion of poverty, no more work, no "social-evolution" because a bunch of fuckers keep the pie for themselves, etc...
                            Now, come tell me it's no more connected to the today world, a lot of country has a high unemployement rate, big corporation put people in the street and move their manufactures in the third world (an Iphone costs 5$ to build, and Apple use a 300% rent over it, so you just pay 600$ for nothing).

                            I don't want to go in a "politic" thread, but come on, Cyberpunk is more about "the people" than the tech.
                            I want Cyberpunk 2077 to present our current world, pushed in the future, if 80's cyberpunk was grim, and seeing that it somewhat happens today, the 2077's one should be even more hardcore. So people can think about those things and say "wow, it's true that if you look at this like this... it's fucked up", but in a neutral way, so everybody can make their own opinion about it.

                            Deus Ex was more "Transhumanist", you know, because the main character was "out of the screen", he was one of the only people with advanced cybernetics (when you look in the street, most people don't wear any, it's mostly for cops/security/thugs).
                            It revolved only about the fact the main character had his body changed, but beyond that... we had the Illuminati, sorry but that was just plain retarded.


                            Cyberpunk isn't dead, stop looking at the "box", and look what is inside, it's still fresh, and maybe fresher than "Star Wars Episode VII" that everybody know what to expect from.

                            Damn, we have hackers, Anonymous, politics going crazy, Google working on their "Wintermute IA-like", etc...
                            And you tell me that "Cyberpunk" is outdated?

                            Just give it a fresh look, update the "social" and "tech" side of it, and you have something up in it's time.
                            It's still more relevant to us and our world than "The witcher", or any "fantasy" world.
                            Sure, people would freak about it being all "politics / anarchist / No God - No Master", but hey...
                            It's Cyberpunk, it's just how it's supposed to be.

                            I know most people only have read "Neuromancer", but even if it has "launched" the style, Cyberpunk is far to be limited to it, it's a dense universe, adding stuff from book to book, author to author.

                            The only thing that worries me about Cyberpunk 2077 are the art-style, the gameplay and the "political" side out of it, because it's just what makes Cyberpunk "Cyberpunk".
                            Removing all of this would be like doing a Doom without guns and gore or whatever. I hope CDPR will really read a lot of books, the source material and really "nail" the core of Cyberpunk, because it's not just "bulky tech from blade runner", it's so much than this, and I'm really scared that they would miss the shot.

                            If they release a generic sci-fi game with not much to chew on "background wise", I'm honnestly not interested :/
                            Even if it looks like Blade Runner, that's not what Cyberpunk is about.

                            Cyberpunk is a setting, it's not an art style.


                            The same when people talk about "punk" and just come with the same old "The Clash, the Exploited, Sex Pistols, etc..."
                            the Punk "scene" is so much more than this, and the Cyberpunk is directly connected to the "Hardcore Punk" stain of mind.

                            Remove the hardcore punk from Cyberpunk and you have something... which isn't Cyberpunk, it's just Deux Ex with attitude, and it would suck.

                            I want to tag "Fuck Arasaka" on the wall and have a good reason to do it, more than "because they are the bad guys, it's written in the notice, you know, Illuminatis and Reptilian".
                            Last edited by Maelcom404; 01-12-14, 18:51.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by animalfather
                              We have never had a 80s retrofuturistic open world game EVER. the transhuman 90s cyberpunk is BLAH. not interested.
                              Cyberpunk 2020, the version most people are familiar with, was released in 1990. Transhumanism didn't really take off until later, though Ghost in the Shell certainly moved the genre past the "omg muh humanity" roadblock.

                              I don't know about you, but given how the the game looks to be taking itself seriously, it'd be very hard to accomplish that with a retrofuturistic take. That's why I posted about Cyberpunk 2077 being more successful as a scathing reaction to modern transhumanism than as a straight up retro throwback. Cyberpunk needs to be relevant to have its impact, sticking to 80's trappings isn't going to accomplish that.

                              Originally posted by Safe-r
                              What needs to be redone is not cyberpunk as a concept (like you said it: "Extrapolate from today, from twenty minutes in the future, make it address today's concerns". That's pretty much it). Transhumanism is but one facet of a greater whole. It should not be the focus only because "it's the big deal nowadays". Cyberpunk is larger than that. So while I can agree that cyberpunk of 80's "is dead" (in a way) I can't agree that emphasis on transhumanism is the way to go.

                              On related note I would be surprised to see a return to 80's/90's fashion and style (like the whole game being designed that way). We are to extrapolate into the future, but from the present. How much 80's and 90's we have around now? It might not be a big deal in the end, but it'll jar me a bit if only reason for so doing is nostalgia. It'll scream: "This isn't the future! This stuff never came to pass to begin with! How you expect me to take your vision of the future seriously?!". A bit immersion breaking. It'd be acceptable in an alternate reality, but in the future? Not so much. And if someone claims that without "a proper" art style "the game would no longer be cyberpunk" then it's clear to me he does not understand what cyberpunk is in the first place.
                              I agree, cyberpunk as that concept is a lot more fundamental to the genre than the specifics we so strongly associate with its 80's incarnation. I don't think mirrorshades are going to come back, or the silly made-up slang (Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall handle this pretty well, you'll hear a chummer here or there but it's not enough to get in the way of well-written dialogue).

                              However, transhumanism is pretty dominate in modern sci-fi. It's about how becoming less human is going to make the world a better place. To bring up Eclipse Phase, the transhumanist anarchists are the good guys and the people who don't have multiple sleeves are the bigoted bad guys trying unsuccessfully to stop the progress of humanity. Capitalism is mostly good because rep keeps everyone in check.

                              An updated cyberpunk very much needs to address this view. Transhumanism is MUCH larger than cyberpunk now, it's not simply a facet of cyberpunk. There's a lot of people pushing IRL transhumanist concepts at this moment. There's a surprising number of people pushing for sapient AI rights at this minute. There's big projects dedicated to stuff like BINA 48.

                              And that stuff is just prime for ripping apart in a cyberpunk world. Why do we assume that mind uploads are somehow going to grant us immortality, or make life better for the everyman? Who could possibly afford a mind emulation device, and is it really going to amount to much more than a posthumous chatterbot that knows some of your old catchphrases? Why in the world are we going to trust corporations to care about rep if there's such an information divide between them and the people they spy on?

                              I really do think that transhumanism needs to be the main focus. There is a lot of material available to deconstruct that would lend itself very well to what we consider cyberpunk. Dystopian cities where corporations exist in their own little bubble while everyone else has to deal with humanoid weapons platforms losing their shit in the middle of the street.

                              Originally posted by Maelcom404
                              People should read more cyberpunk outside of Gibson :/
                              Transhumanism means nothing, except for "random dude with implant".
                              It's just enhancing your body.
                              What is supposed to be the background in "transhumanism"?
                              Transhumanism is a lot more than "random dude with implant" and in fact more modern forms of it abandon the idea of implants altogether in favor of something like resleeving or even having all of humanity exist digitally. Transhumanism is the concept that we need to move past being human and become posthuman, and so transhumanist fiction is typically utopian in nature. If there's any downsides to being posthuman, it's all that prejudice from those dumber unuplifted humans.

                              Originally posted by Maelcom404
                              Cyberpunk is mostly about transhumanism, but transhumanism isn't about cyberpunk
                              As it was in the 80's? Maybe, you'll see a lot of people bringing up the other parts of it, but I'm not too concerned about arguing whether it was or was not.

                              Originally posted by Maelcom404
                              And just to add this, in Cyberpunk 2077 it'll be almost once century that people hang around with cyber-body parts or implants, I think that no one give a fuck about the "transhumanism" anymore, it's common
                              Today, we're not like "Omg a Cellphone! where are we going? are we still humans?"
                              We all have phones, etc... It doesn't scare anyone.
                              A big part of the trailer was the idea of cyberpsychos wandering the streets. I'm saying actually modifying your body to have unremovable weapons is going to be a lot harder to accept than cell phones. Plus I'm not particularly enamored with the idea that the canon of 2013/2020 be strictly adhered to when it conflicts with reality, and I'd probably just not play the game if v3 is considered canon in the slightest. Cybernetics may or may not be a new thing in 2077, but that's not going to mean people are going to be happy about it, not any more than people are happy about having dissociative disorders today or think that school shootings are totally fine. Desensitized, certainly, but no one sane is going to argue that these things aren't bad. Humanity doesn't accept everything like it does cell phones, America still has trouble accepting black people for Christ's sake.

                              Originally posted by Maelcom404
                              Cyberpunk isn't dead, stop looking at the "box", and look what is inside, it's still fresh, and maybe fresher than "Star Wars Episode VII" that everybody know what to expect from.
                              80's cyberpunk is pretty dead, though. The OP's concerns about the game not being retro enough is pretty dumb, IMO. Cyberpunk can't survive as it was back then and having an art style that insists on looking like 80's ass probably isn't going to work out. What they have in the trailer is just about perfect.

                              Originally posted by Maelcom404
                              Just give it a fresh look, update the "social" and "tech" side of it, and you have something up in it's time.
                              Pretty much what I'm advocating.
                              Last edited by helmic; 01-12-14, 20:08.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by helmic
                                However, transhumanism is pretty dominate in modern sci-fi. It's about how becoming less human is going to make the world a better place. [...]

                                An updated cyberpunk very much needs to address this view. Transhumanism is MUCH larger than cyberpunk now, it's not simply a facet of cyberpunk. There's a lot of people pushing IRL transhumanist concepts at this moment. There's a surprising number of people pushing for sapient AI rights at this minute. There's big projects dedicated to stuff like BINA 48.[

                                And that stuff is just prime for ripping apart in a cyberpunk world. [...]

                                I really do think that transhumanism needs to be the main focus. There is a lot of material available to deconstruct that would lend itself very well to what we consider cyberpunk. Dystopian cities where corporations exist in their own little bubble while everyone else has to deal with humanoid weapons platforms losing their shit in the middle of the street.
                                It does not matter how dominate transhumanism is in modern sci-fi, because cyberpunk does not deal with modern sci-fi at all.

                                You make a pretty big leap between "an updated cyberpunk very much needs to address this view" and "I really do think that transhumanism needs to be the main focus". It speaks volumes that Mike Pondsmith considers Grand Thieft Auto to be "basically cyberpunk minus the hardware" while Deus Ex: Human Revolution is not considered to be about cyberpunk. And in a game called "Cyberpunk 2077" it should be about cyberpunk.

                                I'll post some of the more important quotes on the subject from here:

                                How do you think, why do some people perceive and understand the phenomenon of cyberpunk incorrectly?

                                People tend to focus on the tech side of cyberpunk rather than the human side. They often think that cybertech and big guns make something cyberpunk. But you can have those elements in the framework of a rather nice transhumanist setting where life is good and people are full of hope. No, cyberpunk is more about how the human elements like greed and the lust of power; human weakness and flaws, play out in the context of new technology. Cyberpunk isn't about the tech — it's about how that tech is USED. Here's an example. Cybernetics can be used to replace damaged or flawed body parts; to help people live better lives and to fix what nature has failed at. Or they can be used to create all powerful super soldier killers who crush less enhanced people in the name of powerful oligarchs.

                                Why cyberpunk is always about the future (what’s more, pretty far future), to your mind? Why not an alternative reality, for example? Does a «when» really play such a big role there?

                                WHEN is important because cyberpunk is about the journey you and I are taking to the future. Cyberpunk works because it's science fiction that we can experience in real life. You may never travel to the stars or use a light saber, but you can go downtown at midnight and get jumped by a boostergang NOW. So WHEN it happens — in this case the near future; a future we will live to see, is a critical element.
                                And another one from here:

                                Augments, of course, are a huge part of the Cyberpunk world. They are the focal point of the teaser trailer, which shows a squad of specialised police facing off against a woman who has gone too rather far with her biomechanical self-improvement regime. But Cyberpunk 2077 will not be about conflict between the augmented and the police; that Deus Ex: Human Revolution-style societal tension over the morality and ethics of augmentation is not at the centre of the story.

                                “The psycho squad is just one of many cool elements in this world," Sebastian explains. “We had several ideas for this short teaser and had to focus on one of them. Augmentations and cyberware is a big subject in the world, and that’s why it’s in the teaser. But it won’t be a game about police hunting cyber-psychos. That’s a sub-plot… The story will be low-level. We are not going to save the world, or even save a city. We are focused on the main character and his problems, or her problems.”

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