BornBoring;n10399802 said:
Agreed, I watched the whole video (long even by his standards!) and was impressed by the manner in which he got his points across objectively - constructive criticism is always healthy.
What's your concern with the create mechanic (or just not a fan)? Again I thought Mogwai got it spot on: there's nothing wrong with a bit of variance in the game so long as the devs don't go overboard. Frankly I'd sooner see RNG create mechanics rather than the tedious auto-play decks (dwarves, any Skellige deck) we're seeing in the game at the moment.
stridecolossus;n10405862 said:
Every dwarf deck runs elven scout (actually every ST deck in general). Yes, the value of elven scout varies, but it will give you nice value most of the time. It adds more RNG to the game without really making the game more interesting(I mean you said dwarves is a tedious auto-play deck even though it uses elven scout or some decks run runestone). Furthermore it(elven scout) limits the design space of bronzes: Cards with high potential, but strong requirements, would be problematic, because elven scout can give you the reward without having any risk. RNG highroll plays can be really frustrating to see. One time my opponent played usurper into adda into iris and it basically lost me the round and then the game.
BornBoring;n10406142 said:
Fair enough, like I said there are definitely issues and you correctly identify one of them in the Elven Scout (without wanting to derail the thread into the create mechanic).
Back on topic - I thought some of the card designs Mogwai came up with were interesting, we could argue the toss whether they would be OP, weak, etc. but I was impressed with the way he used the designs to emphasise his points about faction identity and 'interesting' cards instead of point-slapping designs.
stridecolossus;n10406392 said:
That's exactly what I didn't like about his video, the faction identity argument. He wants to claim resurrecting units as a "faction identity" for SK but that would just be a huge disadvantage to other factions who can't resurrect units. That's why monsters is so underwhelming, they can't resurrect anything where other factions simply keep resurrecting engine cards. You can pick one silver and three bronze cards of each, resurrecting them breaks that limit and makes the deck much stronger as well as negating the need to draw these key cards from your deck.
Not saying I'm against faction identity but it isn't that simple to pull off. Some "identities" give factions huge advantages and this is one of them.
Hellsmoke77;n10406512 said:
Monsters have their own type of graveyard interaction (consume: ghouls, slyzard...). I don't see a reason to think monster are bad, because they don't have enough ressurrection tools (when Dagon was dominating the ladder during season 1 or consume at the end of closed beta they couldn't ress any units as well).
Hellsmoke77;n10406512 said:
Not just monsters.. NR can't ressurect anything outside of using Shani and Sabrina (worthless), right?
BornBoring;n10406142 said:
I dislike elven scout and slave driver because they give the ability to play some of the best cards in the other factions. They should not be able to play three friggin archespores. That is just ridiculous.
Hellsmoke77;n10406512 said:
Monsters is underwhelming because it's a bizarre grab bag of mechanics and archetypes, most of which aren't viable, and the two which are majorly viable have been in the game from the beginning.
iamthedave;n10408602 said:
You could almost say the same for NR.. except NR only has one "viable" archetype that is widely played. (Machines) Swarm is the next best, but I have rarely seen it at R19+ (maybe the GwentUp says otherwise).
Merchant rocks. He always hits it on the head with what I am thinking too.
Philologus;n10408672 said:
Not really. NR swarm and machines have always been viable, and armour's been pretty viable for months now. You can R19 a ciriarmour deck easily. NR isn't full of random mechanics, it's just not evolved to add much that's new, except for cursed, which is terrible at the minute. Most of the new NR cards just fit into the old archetypes.
Ah, I remember when NR was 'that faction that played Reaver Hunters' and not much else. Come on... a tiny bit since then, it has.
It really is incredible how far from closed beta things are now in terms of intelligent gameplay vs point-spamming, strategy and just plain fun. What happened and why? I'd really like to know. Even if somebody from CDPR simply says "We're about to go bankrupt, we had to do something to get the casuals spending money." I'd just at least like to know what happened because boy did it, whatever IT is, happen.
iamthedave;n10420072 said:
Eh.. I'm not sure, but Henselt machines and swarm may be viable in the literal sense of winning somewhere around 50%, but I just don't think it works so well to get to R20 or GM. Do you agree with that? Armour was enhanced by the addition of Vincent, but one really needs a butt-load of armour on the board (like 20+) to make him a decent finisher. Otherwise, he's somewhere between a VE and Cynthia. Nevertheless, armour on it's own isn't so great in a point-spamming meta. It translates decently in the interaction between Redanian Elite and Kedwenian Cavalry, but where else? Maybe specific situations such as Redanian Knight under weather, but otherwise, armor is not translating to points.
Speaking of which., you know those damn 12 pt value skirmishers that usually come chained from the Agitators? They still strengthen three points even if they don't actually damage the body of an armored unit (i.e. only armor value is decreased, not he unit's health) Ridiculous!
Going completely off topic: You now I just want NR to have more synergy and complex interactions between the various bronzes. For the love.. that can start by reverting Field Medic back to it's old function, which was so versatile!
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Philologus;n10420792 said:
Not quite. Henselt Machines is definitely an R20 deck; armour maybe less so. But ciriamour decks can put a truckload of points on the board. I just don't know how well it plays on those ranks. I'd need to see the gwent tracker stats. I don't think Vincent gets used much, honestly. Normally it's the left/right buff guy and thunderbolt potions to make it very hard for opposing removal to get any value.
Skirmisher's always worked like that. But at least now there's circumstances where it's only worth 9 instead of always 12 and then resurrecting to 15 or more.
I agree it needs more complex interactions. Wasn't the problem with field medic that people didn't really use it, though, due it being so random and dragging out things you didn't want? I liked it most as a giant middle finger to spy decks.
iamthedave;n10449922 said:
Was that the issue with Field Medic? I don't know, for sure. I do know that it provided versatility for NR, which is sorely needed. I would much rather have the old FM than this point-spamming version. And yes, it really was a big pain for spy decks! (As is Thunderbolt, Swallow, or anything else that keeps it on your side of the board)
Think about how many NR units you DON'T want to summon save through one specific avenue. What if a medic pulls out a blue stripes? Or a second Temerian infantryman? Or a cavalry? There's tons of ways field medic can go wrong in almost any NR deck.
iamthedave;n10470352 said:
Absolutely true, but those aforementioned cards can be thinned by the time FM hits the board. I do think that the old FM was a fantastic strategic play that required (sometimes a lot) of setup. If nothing else, it could send away a heavily damaged unit, which wasn't bad.
But the main point is that old FM offered deck interaction and a mechanic for deeper strategy. Now? It's simply a card one lays for point-spamming with soldiers.