Discuss Reasoning for card changes [patch 0.9.20]

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Theo_FP;n10456632 said:
You have to play your Enforcers before the Emissaries, which is a perfectly fine change. It allows people to actually counter the Enforcers (in the same way you'd counter Mangonels and An Craite Longships); Why should the Enforcers get special treatment over every other card that uses the same mechanic?

It's actually not perfectly fine. It was perfectly fine the way it was. It was perfectly balanced. If you wanted to get the most out of the first enforcer spawned, you needed to chain 3 emissaries. Not an easy task since their pulls are random. Each other enforcer had to be placed down before using spies.

The best case scenario gets you 8 targeted damage right off the bat. Less than a thunder and requires much more setup. That's extremely little in today's meta. On top of that, they're a 6 str unit that's easily removed.

Again, having to put enforcers down before spies are used is perfectly fine. Chaining the first one from spies and not getting to shoot is not. For a 6 str bronze with setup and RNG it really isn't.
 
Cougar1993;n10446612 said:
Ciri Nova - still in every fuckin*** game!!! Still lose so many games because this stupid noob card ...

How you losing to a noob card then? They had to build there deck around it, you just need one counter and you can see it coming a mile off.

So if you keep losing to that card, what does that say?
 
Can't start my own thread without 10 posts and too lazy to spend 30 minutes doing broken Google captchas for every single post, so I'll do it here.

I'm a 500+ wins ST only player for 9 months and have never played the monthly popular swim netdecks for more than a handful of games to test, nor play anything I'm not getting 75+% win rate up to rank 19ish, always create my own decks(was using Eithne and movement last month, due to the prevalence of dorfs, cards like Nivellen were getting 34+ pt value quite often, rarely lost that matchup, went 27-0 at one pt in the mid ranks yadda yadda - add some credibility to post.)

Commander's Horn:
This will seem like I just copied OP but honestly anyone who has any common sense and relatively experienced with this game would of come to the same conclusion in seconds.
6 units x 3 buff would of been the most fair, +banish would of been too much, one or the other. Literally nobody will ever use this card again including Eithne, seems the devs only understand raw value, and completely overlook consistency and risk vs reward as an important part of a card's actual value.

Why would anyone use a silver that requires a 5 unit row requirement and adding the risk of big igni/scorch plays/other single row aoes for a measily 15 value when you can use one of the many guaranteed no requirement 16-18 value silver units with no risk...Yet they left Iris unchanged for 22 pt aoe buff that can also be used twice with a little more effort but fairly consistently on Eredin, happened to me yesterday. The only time this card will ever be seen again in play is when more cards with triggers when buffed are released. They already nerfed Mahakam Marauder to not worth it when nobody was complaining about it at the time at the decent ranks of play, extremely uncalled for. Once again their value program told them it wasn't in line with similar cards from other factions ignoring the whole picture; the risk of running those cards and buffing them to 25+ that almost always got punished or flat out removed before buffing when it's the core of the deck...Has to be considered into the card's actual value. They destroyed an entire ST archetype with that one change, they had already nerfed Dwarven Agitator a month prior and in no way was that deck dominating the ladder or outcry, non ST players were also shocked at that change at the time.

Commander's Horn was also used as a crutch for other weaker archetypes on ST, the devs preach wanting variety but seem to love to nerf the versatile cards that affect many archetypes when trying to tone down one single deck, there were many ways to fix dwarves, instead of focusing on cards that were only used in 100% dwarf decks to fix their own overtuned mess they created a month prior...well this is the result. Not nearly as ignorant of their game as the September patch made them look in which they had to hotfix within a week on cards literally everyone knew would be beyond OP in one second of looking at them, lost all faith then and mostly casual since.

Dwarven Agitator:
Another nerf to movement ST and variety in general, nerfed it twice now lol, this change surprised me the most. If they think the change they made to Dwarven Mercenary compensates here, it doesn't, they should know on movement you move your own units 80% of the time...Perhaps they want to force movement to only be played with heavy hazzards, which is very inconsistent value to be worth it imo.

Wardancer:
This card should have never existed, one of the most broken cards in this game and half of why the current elf buff deck that's so popular right now is as strong as it is...The other half being Saskia. Try playing any variation of this deck without Saskia(still using Wardancer) and it will feel perfectly balanced, winning or losing by a couple points at the decent ladder ranks. Can't wait to see what they decide to nerf in this deck while leaving Wardancer intact as is lol.

Ciri Nova:
Yeah...Honestly that's a tough fix so that it still gets some usage(doesn't seem to ever bother them with any of their other nerfs to be never used again), perhaps -1 more pt to 21 for starters.

On a side note...Honestly if anyone here started playing in the last 3 months, would you still be playing? I fell in love with this game last summer, it was deceivingly simple at face value yet incredibly deep and strategic versus what I was used to in other online card games. Everyone ran cards like Igni so it became a strategic poker type game trying to bait out their cards you knew they had, positioning and planning really mattered. Only complaints back then was a poor uninformative tutorial and the single player challenge introduction, visually archaic cheap board that looks like it's from a year 2000 game...That they somehow thought was a good idea to copy the look for the new deck builder. Summer '17 Gwent really only needed a handful of balance fixes and some polish, was a 9/10 game, 6/10 to me now, progressively worse each major patch for the most part digging themselves deeper and deeper with rushed poorly tested content, cards, and quick fixes. Has anyone seen a game transform this much during a beta when they had a solid game to being with?

Didn't intend this to be mostly a rant lol, I'll stop there. Doubt devs even read these forums, wasting my time...Should of posted on Reddit I guess.
 
psk94;n10514622 said:
Didn't intend this to be mostly a rant lol, I'll stop there. Doubt devs even read these forums, wasting my time...Should of posted on Reddit I guess.

True. This forum is dead and have no competitiveness advantage over Reddit.

 
I just tried it. Enforcers work like they did before Midwinter. Chaining Emissaries does give them more shots.

But yeah ok, that means they are perfect now right? the way everyone said they should be. partci, you as a main NG player must be having so much fun with enforcers now right? No wait, nvm, you didn't even know about the change.

But hey the rest must be playing Spies the way they should now, right?
.
.
.

...right?
 
ser2440;n10515632 said:
... partci, you as a main NG player must be having so much fun with enforcers now right? No wait, nvm, you didn't even know about the change...

I hadn't been a fan of Spies after the deck became T1 and stayed like that for few months. Maybe it's the fact that I played tons with it before it became what it is now and this version now I found so stagnant and boring to play with, that I rarely bother.

And Enforcers ARE bugged now - sometimes they work as intended (?) - sometimes they don't. Maybe it's the Left to Right - Melee to Siege system, but I've seen streamers get 2 points instead of 6 in some cases. It made me think that after they were (sort of) returned to their previous state, that they do lack and maybe a mechanic like the one Arachas Behemoths have will be best for them. Let's say make them 8 STR and having 5 or 4 shots counter. This will make them more reliable and will limit the insane amount of damage they were pulling before that (26 swing with a single Bronze card, I'm sorry but excuse me).
 
partci;n10519342 said:
And Enforcers ARE bugged now - sometimes they work as intended (?) - sometimes they don't. Maybe it's the Left to Right - Melee to Siege system, but I've seen streamers get 2 points instead of 6 in some cases.

After a bit more testing, this seems to be true. I haven't exactly figured out when they get less shots though. Might be when you kill the spy before their last shot, maybe not, I don't know.

The problem is that when you have 12 and 13 point bronzes without setup that also empower others (like the half elf hunter which spawns 2 bodies so gives more power to the vanguard AND summons Aelirenn) it makes sense to have 26 power bronze engine units at the END of a long round that included a lot of spy placement. At least in the current meta and the one before that. I'll agree with you that were it this way before Midwinter, it would have been ludicrous.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Why, WHY, did CDPR felt that Iorveth needed a buff? That was one of the few golds that was actually balanced. Almost no one used it? Yes.

Guess what - now that damn card is in every SC deck, since almost no one uses all dwarves anymore, its either Fran Mulligan, Eithné control or Brouver mulligan with almost all elves and just that silver dwarf that calls cleaver BS. And they all use Iorveth!

So many useless Golds and CDPR ruins the balance of one just because no one was using it...
 
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ser2440;n10519532 said:
... it makes sense to have 26 power bronze engine units at the END of a long round...

No, mate, it doesn't make sense. 26 on deploy for a Bronze is what is ludicrous. Sure, it does need a set up, but it is still 26 Bronze drop. Add to this the lately discovered (#sarcasm) Letho/Regis combo. This becomes insane. 18 to 20 WITH the body is far, far enough for a BRONZE Control card. And I do this calculations with Borkh in mind, cause the card should not be able to kill him in one deploy (as happened to me and cost me the game).
 
But that requires a heluva lot of setup mate. Not only is it a fringe case, but also it requires at least 10 spies on the board. Emissaries are 3, infiltrators are 3 more, and there's Ceallach and a couple of silver spies, so you need all of these AND Emhyr/Cahir into Ceallach to spawn one more AND to bring the enforcer in with the very last spy And to be playing a ludicrously long round. This is the absokute maximum value they can get unless you are using decoy or vilgefortz into emhyr and cahir to ressurect him on the same round. There is no such barrier on axemen for example. I mean, Marauders can easily reach 20 points or so. Brigades can as well. So can Vrihedd Officers.

I run a deck that is completely proactive and I still didn't have trouble beating spies at all, only lost to them a couple of times.
 
Dude, till you get this units to these highs you need to have them on the board for a LONG time, you are not dropping them 20 like that. And I'll admit - 26 is extreme (easier with Usurper), but dropping two Enforcers at the end of a long round for 16 is still huge. PLUS, remember, there are the Brigades you'll have to think of too, but at least you can deal with them somehow.
 
I cannot understand the nerf of the Commander's Horn. I used the Eithné method myself quite often and do not have the opinion that it was OP in any case.
As it is now, my deck is nearly unplayable because of that change.
Also many other strategies are affected by this. I strongly recommend to rethink this step.

BTW, right now I lost a match only because of that.
 
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