How powerfull is Pit Trap?

[FG15-ISH7EG]

How powerfull is Pit Trap?

I'm a huge fan of Movement ST and really enjoy playing it, in particular due to the introduction of Pit Trap.
Therefore, I asked myself today the question how powerfull Pit Trap as a silver card is compared to Lacerate as a bronze.

The main difference between the two is that Pit Trap is a Hazard and therefore persistant. But in how many cases does this really make a difference? I can only think of a small number of cases:
1. If there are units that are moved by the opponent out of the row. There are only Odrin and Archespore, which move themselves and except movement mirror matches there is only the Dwarven Mercanary as a viable bronze unit that moves allies.
2. Going first and not having a valuable target for your movement related units. Then you can place Pit Trap first on the board just to move the enemies into it afterwards.
3. Moving units in and out of Pit Trap. This requires 2 movements if the unit is already in the Pit Trap or else 3. But this requires the unit to have at least 10 points (if you have only one DB Marksman), and the Pit Trap has to be placed in the middle of the round on the board, for units being already placed on the row, but having still enough movement options.

Lets calculate the value each of this cases gives:
1. the benefit from Pit Trap to Lacerate should be 6 at max in this case, on average I would say 2 points
2. the benefit is only the number of units placed during 1 turn at max. Even if they are played on the same row this should be no more than 6 points, with 3 on average again
3. I doubt that this can affect more than 2 units, because there isn't enough movement and high strength enemy units. So 6 points at max again with an average of maybe 4.

I would say that case 2 and 3 are not both possible. And case 1 is limited against special archetypes. So the benefit on average from Pit Trap to Lacerate is only 4 points, which is pretty much the normal difference between bronze and silver. In particular, as Lacerate is a neutral card.

Additionally, Pit Trap can be cleared, which is a huge downside. And you have to use it on atleast 4 units such that it is still worth even after being cleared.

This all leads me to the conclusion, that Pit Trap is hardly better than a neutral bronze card (which sees hardly any play even if there exist tutors for it), and therefore basically not worth it. But this is a huge discrepance to my subjective experience that Pit Trap is a really strong and usefull card.
So everyone, can you tell me where I made a mistake in my thoughts?

 

[iamthedave]

Not a mistake per se, more that Pit Trap adds value onto your movement cards. Lacerate requires you to stack everything up, Pit Trap benefits by moving things around, so for a movement deck it's easier to get value out of Pit Trap than lacerate.

Also, you can tutor it with Pavko Gale, which has some extra value.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Pit Trap can require a bit of setup to be effective -- and, unfortunately, it can often go wrong. I've tried to use it in some of my decks, but ultimately gave up, although I still like the idea of the card. The only strategy which I found consistently amusing was to use Geralt: Aard to blast units into the Trap.

 

[DRK3]

There are plenty of ways to move units into pit trap. Once you put it, players will put their following units on the other rows, so dont bother taking units out of pit trap to put em back again.

You have Geralt Aard, Zoltan (the SC exclusive version) and Nivellen, to get multiple units into a Pit trap. Combined with just a Marksman on board, it kills pretty much anything that falls into the pit trap.

But be careful Pit Trap might even help your opponent. I know of at least one case - Harald Houndsnout. I had no ways left to trigger him so i decided to put him into the trap - all of the skulls triggered instantly, which means i lost 3 or 4 pts on Harald, but got the +3 strengthen and 11 pt bear instantly. And there might be other cases.

 

[Draconifors]

Pit Trap is a really fun card. One way to use it efficiently is to tutor it with Pavko (as already pointed out) and combo it with weather. Weather encourages rowstack -- unless cleared, of course -- that you can then punish with Pit Trap.

Aard, Zoltan, Nivellen, Dwarven Mercenaries and Vrihedd Brigade provide plenty of ways to move opponent's units around.
There are also movement cards in SK and Monsters that you may be able to get your hands on if your deck runs cards like Aglaïs or Summoning Circle, for example.
If for some reason your movement deck runs Iris, Pit Trap will insta-kill her.

Not 100 % sure of this, as my movement/trap deck runs Brouver Hoog, but looking at card descriptions I'd say that Eithné is able to replay Pit Trap. So, if your deck has multiple specials, she might be an option to enable double Pit Trap.

In any case, Pavko Gale into Pit Trap is fun and a good way to surprise your opponent.

 

[MrInk5000]

I don't use ST.

The card sounds fair enough but the tactic of watching your opponents repeatedly moving the units you're trying to build up, in and out the trap, sounds frustrating and not much fun.

Forfeit, no GG.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Thanks for all the replies.

There are plenty of ways to move units into pit trap. Once you put it, players will put their following units on the other rows, so dont bother taking units out of pit trap to put em back again.
You have Geralt Aard, Zoltan (the SC exclusive version) and Nivellen, to get multiple units into a Pit trap. Combined with just a Marksman on board, it kills pretty much anything that falls into the pit trap.

That is exactly my point. What is the difference between first playing pit trap and then moving enemies into it, or just alligning enemies on a row with movement and then using Lacerate afterwards. You get the movement stacks either way, because the number of movement doesn't change. Therefore, you will only get more value than Lacerate only if you are able to hit units twice. And hitting enemies twice isn't that easy, because even with one Marksman that requires the enemies to have at least 10 strength or they will be dead before that. If you use Zoltan or Aard they even need more strength beforehand.

Aard, Zoltan, Nivellen, Dwarven Mercenaries and Vrihedd Brigade provide plenty of ways to move opponent's units around.

I run all of those except Aard, because I find that there are too many situations where he is not worth it.

If for some reason your movement deck runs Iris, Pit Trap will insta-kill her.

That is something I completly overlooked.

Not 100 % sure of this, as my movement/trap deck runs Brouver Hoog, but looking at card descriptions I'd say that Eithné is able to replay Pit Trap. So, if your deck has multiple specials, she might be an option to enable double Pit Trap.
In any case, Pavko Gale into Pit Trap is fun and a good way to surprise your opponent.

Yeah, I'm running it with Eithne and it works pretty well. Using Pit Trap early on two rows and then forcing the enemy to rowstack the last one, such that I can blast every unit with Nivellen into the Pit Trap.

I didn't thought about Pavko before and always used Isengrim: Outlaw, who would also be able to tutor Lacerate. This one is probably the best argument in favour of Pit Trap.

The card sounds fair enough but the tactic of watching your opponents repeatedly moving the units you're trying to build up, in and out the trap, sounds frustrating and not much fun.

It can be frustrating at the other hand, all of it is really soft removal that needs at least 3 turns to set up and even is weak to enemy removal. I would describe it as very similar to Henselt Machines. And due to the bronze movement cards (Vrihedd Brigade and Dwarven Mercenary) both have other main effectst than moving enemies you won't even get that much power out of it as a player.

 

[Beernchips]

Pit trap can also be used to deny a row when an enemy start to build his engine mechanic or something else :
--> He start to stack units before toruviel = pit trap the row
--> Against nekkers, when neekers are consumed the new one will come in same place so its 3 damage free on them everytime they pop up
--> Reveants pop up on same row so when you pit trap them its 3 damage everytime he spawn a new one
...

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I don't use ST.

The card sounds fair enough but the tactic of watching your opponents repeatedly moving the units you're trying to build up, in and out the trap, sounds frustrating and not much fun.

Forfeit, no GG.

Is this a joke?

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Toruviel is a good point. It even deals 3 damage to her after the round ended, which Lacerate definetly isn't able to.
And I agree that it is usefull against Nekkers too.
And it can permanently remove Ronvid, but Henselt machines are usually healed, which is a draw-back in that case.

But Lacerate could also be used on Reveants for the same effect.

 

[Void_Singer]

you also missed that pit trap can be used to clear boons (although the reverse is also true). if you're using weather it can be used as another row of it, which you can guarantee they won't play into, giving you advantage to put their units into it later via movement. I do agree that if you aren't playing movement, it's not worth it compared to lacerate unless you're looking to load up on row effects

 

[MU24bmw]

Is this a joke?

Let's hope so

 

[Gvynblade]

Pit trap must be neutral,provides too much advantage for one faction.Like they dont have enough unique ambush and resurrection cards now this

explains why most popular faction by far.

 

[Mathspy]

Pit trap must be neutral,provides too much advantage for one faction.Like they dont have enough unique ambush and resurrection cards now this

explains why most popular faction by far.

Lacerate, you can basically have 3 Pit Traps. You're welcome!

 

[Gvynblade]

Lacerate, you can basically have 3 Pit Traps. You're welcome!

Iris gives instant 5x5 pts on pittrap,thank you!

 

[DRK3]

Toruviel is a good point. It even deals 3 damage to her after the round ended, which Lacerate definetly isn't able to.
And I agree that it is usefull against Nekkers too.
And it can permanently remove Ronvid, but Henselt machines are usually healed, which is a draw-back in that case.

But Lacerate could also be used on Reveants for the same effect.

Just a detail: Ronvid ressurects on a random row (noticed it recently, since i dont use him), so unless you have pit traps on all enemy rows, you cant have guarantee that he will be taken down all turns, to deny his crew effect.

 

[MrInk5000]

Is this a joke?

Nope. As a not only a newbie to Gwent (36 hours play according to Galaxy) but a newbie to card games, net decks and cheap tactics have made me go from "oh I've found a new genre to sink my time into" to "i'll just get the 6 round win challenge and quit for the day"

 

[MrInk5000]

It can be frustrating at the other hand, all of it is really soft removal that needs at least 3 turns to set up and even is weak to enemy removal. I would describe it as very similar to Henselt Machines. And due to the bronze movement cards (Vrihedd Brigade and Dwarven Mercenary) both have other main effectst than moving enemies you won't even get that much power out of it as a player.

Thanks for the reply. what are the removal options other than buffing the row?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Nope. As a not only a newbie to Gwent (36 hours play according to Galaxy) but a newbie to card games, net decks and cheap tactics have made me go from "oh I've found a new genre to sink my time into" to "i'll just get the 6 round win challenge and quit for the day"

I really thought you were joking because if you have an issue with pit trap then I don't know how you could ever enjoy this game. Pit trap is weak right now. I don't see how anyone could complain about it. There are much MUCH more frustrating cards and plays in this game.

Also net decks are part of the genre. People will always learn from the internet and just simply from playing other people. The strongest decks always become popular. All that can be done is the devs balance the game well enough that there are many good decks for people to use instead of a few.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Thanks for the reply. what are the removal options other than buffing the row?

The whole enemy movement archetype relies on the Dol Blathanna Bowmen (they deal 2 damage when an enemy is moved), as they are the main damage source. While Pit Trap is usefull for the archetype, but without the Bowman all of the bronze movement cards will be nearly useless.