Paradox of create

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Paradox of create

The sole reason of why create is here is to provide diverse games, so that players don't play same deck same strategy in every game. Now let's take a look at the solutions CDPR are thinking:
1.“Controlled create” was NEVER the goal, if we wanted every game to play the same, we wouldn't need control in the first place.
2.Banning them in ranked will create more trouble than it sounds. First, top tier decks are still lack in number, and without diversity in deck build, the tournament can be less interesting to watch given time.. Second, some decks will not allowed in ranked, and that requires players to create different decks for casual and rank mode, new UI is probably needed and third, will quite possibly create confusion for new players.

So here is the paradox- In current state some lucky RNG will make rank/tournament frustrating, but it can't and shouldn't be controlled, and banning them makes old problem resurface.


So I say, let create remains the same in.casual, but adding extra restrictions to ranked create, making them less reliable, BUT remains an option. This way if one to use it in rank or tournament, it can get lucky and win a game or two with it, but eventually the risk won't be worth it if the deck is built around it.

These extra restrictions should be highlighted when players first enter the rank season, and viewable during rank play:

1.Create cards (eg eleven scout etc), and other cards that may result in playing from graveyard, hand or deck on board (Vilgfortz for example)cannot be created.

2.Same card may appear twice in create, much like slave driver.

3. This one is probably an “overdone” for ppl, but I'm putting it here as food for thoughts: Implement an algorithm that calculate the creatable cards' most possible base points (for example, original Iovrveth is 7 strength+ 8 damage 15 points if there is a 8+ enemy, its triggered ability or target's deathwish ability does not count.) The highest possible creatable unit will be disabled and cannot be created in that situation.
For example, assume in a situation that Igni can result in highest point if played (5+25), then if Uma is played it will not put Igni into create table.

RNG factor will Always remains in the game as it should be. Instead of controlling create cards or ban them, making them way less reliable in serious game play is the right way to change it since create is meant to be RNG factor, and it as an option should be remain
 
Would be freaking stupid for them to ban them in ranked, then what is even the Point of having them in game, we don't need Another hs situation with half cards unable to be played
 
Most of them arent even that good tbh. The more cards that are released the worse they will be/the less reliable they will be and I already lose plenty of games ripping some steaming garbage choices off a runestone.
 
liezldiezldee;n10719361 said:
Most of them arent even that good tbh. The more cards that are released the worse they will be/the less reliable they will be and I already lose plenty of games ripping some steaming garbage choices off a runestone.

True...I say many create problems are gonna go away as the card expansions come out, but well since CDPR decides to do something about it riight now...
 
I say leave Create alone, if people in ranked and at the top of the ladder are good enough to be there then they should learn to deal with all mechanics of the game and adapt as the game progresses, it's called originality and individual thought.
If people don't have the ability to change their decks to combat the decks at the top then we are all just stuck playing the same boring matches all the time.
What's the point of continuing to progress the game or even keeping it alive.
New mechanics, tactics and diverse changes is what keeps things interesting.
 
thirdeye50;n10724991 said:
if people in ranked and at the top of the ladder are good enough to be there then they should learn to deal with all mechanics of the game and adapt as the game progresses, it's called originality and individual thought.
This is a valid point for each set of rules with or without create. Therefore ist pointless.

We are still in the beta and introducing a ban-system in beta is not a really good signal for the future. This alone shows the limited success of create-mechanism. The Problem with create cards i have is, while all using the same cards, they play different games. Thats not diversitythats stupid, especially for a slower game gwent used to be. With create the imoplemented a higher tempo to the game, which isnt healthy because many longterm combination are useless.
 
thirdeye50;n10724991 said:
I say leave Create alone, if people in ranked and at the top of the ladder are good enough to be there then they should learn to deal with all mechanics of the game and adapt as the game progresses, it's called originality and individual thought.
If people don't have the ability to change their decks to combat the decks at the top then we are all just stuck playing the same boring matches all the time.
What's the point of continuing to progress the game or even keeping it alive.
New mechanics, tactics and diverse changes is what keeps things interesting.

You don't deal with create. You just accept losing to a created card when you played perfectly and the opponent pulls a counter out of thin air. You deal with the opponent by creating a good deck and learning how to play it. What individual thought is there when you play a card and hope it pulls a weather clear or a lock? It couldn't be more further from that.

And there are no tactics in create. Hell, tactics in Gwent in general were put aside in favor of point spam and summon 45 cards with one. We're far away from what Gwent was supposed to be.
 
Create is dogshit. No idea on the on-going debate about removing, or limiting, it in ranked If it's bad there, it's just bad, ciao.
 
My reference to individual thought and tactics was not the Create mechanic itself, but in making a deck that combats the same boring decks that take no thought other than looking it up on the internet and copying it and then playing it the same way the person who made does.
All factions have there own strengths some way more than others.
Just because it is a new mechanic and disrupted the norm does not mean it is a bad thing, just like any progressive game things change then we have to change with it.
 
Lets start with what create is NOT. Create is NOT winning you any games randomly cause you got lucky and pulled something insane which then won you the game cause your opponent had no chance to beat it.
Now what create on a lot of cards IS. Its just a free +X in power since you almost always get a card that you would play already.

Now what create SHOULD be. It should be a mechanic that forces you to play around all possible options you might get. You should have to set up your board in such a way that all options are good for you but if you dont do that there should be about half options that just hurt you or are a huge dip in value.


So lets take a look at some good create cards. Adda, Whispering Hillock, Filavandrel, Usurper, Umas Curse, Runestones, Vreemde, whinch, Isengrim

Broken create cards. Scoiatel Scout, Slave driver

Bad create cards: Doppler, Kiyan, Hym, Aguara true Form



Why are the broken cards broken? Cause they just dont have fail states. They are always giving full value no matter what and then also synergize with their faction. How to fix this? Lets start by swapping Dwarven Agitators ability with Scoiatel Scouts and see how that works out. For slave driver create is just not the right keyword. It should just look at 2 bronzes from your oppoents deck and spwan a copy of 1. Then it can have 2-3 power and might even be allowed to look at 2 different ones all the time.


What about whinch and Isengrim? Well they both just need one more fail state to be fine. Atm they hit good options too consistently so they should get a little hit by one more bad option.


Create is great i love it and its here to stay


 
Tschjo;n10736441 said:
[...]
So lets take a look at some good create cards. Adda, Whispering Hillock, Filavandrel, Usurper, Umas Curse, Runestones, Vreemde, whinch, Isengrim

Broken create cards. Scoiatel Scout, Slave driver

Bad create cards: Doppler, Kiyan, Hym, Aguara true Form

Why are the broken cards broken? Cause they just dont have fail states. They are always giving full value no matter what and then also synergize with their faction. How to fix this? Lets start by swapping Dwarven Agitators ability with Scoiatel Scouts and see how that works out. For slave driver create is just not the right keyword. It should just look at 2 bronzes from your oppoents deck and spwan a copy of 1. Then it can have 2-3 power and might even be allowed to look at 2 different ones all the time.

What about whinch and Isengrim? Well they both just need one more fail state to be fine. Atm they hit good options too consistently so they should get a little hit by one more bad option.
Elven Scout and Slave Driver don't have fail states? news to me.

and the cards you list as "good". with the exception of runestones and the underlined cards which are often TOO good, the rest have some of the worst create pools available... you're generally just picking from the least worst of what it offers unless you get truly lucky.

if you want to talk about what create should be, then I'd have to say it should be about forking options so that you can at least have a chance to mitigate a few things your deck isn't specifically built to handle... specifically because no deck can handle everything
 
slave driver has too much consistency. create should show only 2 cards in ranked if cdpr dont want to remove it.
:bored:
 
Pruny;n10738661 said:
slave driver has too much consistency. create should show only 2 cards in ranked if cdpr dont want to remove it.
:bored:

Kinda feel like slave driver is fine tho. If you use engine deck rather than proactive, slave driver has a high chance to screw up (exception being mirror matches)
 
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