The direction gwent has taken

[BornBoring]

The direction gwent has taken

I wanted to write some words about the direction gwent has taken and my opinion about that. I think the best way to do so is to divide my post it into three sections: The Witcher 3, closed beta and public beta.


The Witcher 3:

What's gwent?
To cut a long story short: A card game, which simulates the battle between two armies.
I think the devs did a really good job to create a authentic and logical game, which was successful in simulating that scenario.
You play melee units on the melee row, ranged units on the ranged row and siege units on the siege row (seems logical). There are three different weather effects, fog to example affects only the ranged row,which makes sense, because for obvious reasons bad sight is a bigger problem for archers than for a pikeman.
All in all it was a great minigame for a singleplayer RPG, but not appropriate for a multiplayer game, because of some big balance issues(spies, decoy....).


Closed Beta:

The principle of the game hasn't been changed, but it became more complex, tactical and balanced. Well, especially during the first few months of closed beta, there were some big design mistakes, but the devs did again a great job improving the game. Weather and factions' passive abilities remained problematic though.



Public Beta:

The devs decided to basically change everything.
Factions' passive abilities gone? Nice
All leaders getting a body? Great
New weather system? Debatable. I wasn't a happy about the old one and I'm not happy about the new one.
So many units becoming agile (including weather)?Gameplay wise: reasonable
But there is the problem. Is gwent still a card game, which simulates the battle between two armies? There are still three rows, but although they are still named melee, ranged and siege you could also call them row 1,2 and 3. Or does it make sense playing your siege units on the melee row? Why is frost on one side and drought on the other? They die foglets because of fog?

In my opinion, the gameplay isn't better than during closed beta, but that's debatable. What's not debatable is that, gwent has lost some of its logic and authenticity and I don't like that...no, not at all


(Had a hard time writing this in English, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.)



Poll: Do you feel similar or do you have a completely different point of view?

 

[Bugii]

exactly same way.
I'm fine with most of the changes, but agile units and one-sided agile weather is nonsense.
Some say it's more tactical now, IDK, just spam whatever weather card you have wherever you see most units. No need to care about anything, your units are safe.
And yeah, few decks all over again just like in CBT. Yet, I liked the game in CBT and I don't feel the same way now. Something is missing. Not sure what.

 

[DRK3]

I agree with your post.
Some changes like weather, i can accept, the devs are trying to find a system that works. But pratically all units are agile and there's no longer weather immunity makes no sense, those aspects were perfectly fine before. Now, as if it wasnt bad enough that you can choose which row most unit goes to, there are even dozens of cards that change yours and your enemies' units rows...

These changes, along with the removal of faction passive abilities, are making all the factions more similar, so less tactical, and the level of strategy is reduced.

 

[DMaster2]

Balance and gameplay >>>>> lore and logic

I want a game that is balanced and fun to play, much more than having a game where things make little sense lore wise (aka foglets dying from the fog for example)

 

[Yahdop]

I like how it is for the most part, but what do i know, im just using this as my 10th post.

 

[Vulfram]

Balance and gameplay >>>>> lore and logic

I want a game that is balanced and fun to play, much more than having a game where things make little sense lore wise (aka foglets dying from the fog for example)

But if they manage to balance this, the union of lore/logic and gameplay, that will make Gwent truly great.

 

[Cantina12]

The developers are getting better, but the game still needs work. For example: booster cards are bullshit.

Here I am spending my resources, money and time to build a nice deck to the best of my ability. Then some jerk comes in with a Nilf or Elf card and sits there playing every special card or what have you under the sun just to get high numbers on the three cards within their hands.

Ever since the patch hit it seems I was slammed with these types of players. I don’t see how playing that way is fun much less showing off your so-called “skills” as a player. A toddler could come up with a deck like that.

I would gladly crack open a bottle of high class champagne to see these types of cards nerfed hard next patch.

 

[Bugii]

The developers are getting better, but the game still needs work. For example: booster cards are bullshit.

Here I am spending my resources, money and time to build a nice deck to the best of my ability. Then some jerk comes in with a Nilf or Elf card and sits there playing every special card or what have you under the sun just to get high numbers on the three cards within their hands.

Ever since the patch hit it seems I was slammed with these types of players. I don’t see how playing that way is fun much less showing off your so-called “skills” as a player. A toddler could come up with a deck like that.

I would gladly crack open a bottle of high class champagne to see these types of cards nerfed hard next patch.

IMHO these types of decks are here because of the weather changes.
Earlier, it affected both sides and was instant debuff to 1 strength. Worth noting it did NOT kill any units, once the weather was cleared, everything was to it's prior strength.
Now weather can kill them but it takes time AND it only affects opponent.
The fact it takes time is important here. That's why I don't really care about RNR or what not. I'm gonna play them as last 3 cards anyway so it's just -9 strength. With previous weather mechanics this deck wouldnt exist. One of the protectors down to 1 and now what ? clear sky to heal him or rally to bring another one ? That's still good 15-17 strength down.

 

[WaffleDee]

Weather made even less logical sense when it affected both rows (a blizzard affected both range rows but has a little safe spot in between for the melee row?).
Open beta has some rough spots, but the core game is in the best spot it's been so far IMO.

 

[MooshieMooshie]

Weather made even less logical sense when it affected both rows (a blizzard affected both range rows but has a little safe spot in between for the melee row?). Open beta has some rough spots, but the core game is in the best spot it's been so far IMO.

Did it? Frost would effect melee combatants much more than archers. Likewise, fog is going to hinder archers much more than melee fighters. I believe the idea is that these weathers are effecting the entire battlefield, but it's just certain units that are most hindered by that type of weather. It wouldn't make sense with the current agile weather, which was why weather was bound to one row.

 

[idomyownstunts]

Honestly, the lore should be their strength. Now it's more like loosely based on the witcher and gwent the witcher 3 game. Watered down, plastic, tinny, phoney. Why cling to weather at the sake of the game, if you can't get it right soon, just kill it ffs. My pet peeve is still those silver multichoice cards. Generic crap that could all be scrapped and replaced with a new neutral character called Staple Generica with 4 of the best options and everyone could run it and no one would notice any difference. Meh, crap tirade ended.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

IMHO these types of decks are here because of the weather changes.
Earlier, it affected both sides and was instant debuff to 1 strength. Worth noting it did NOT kill any units, once the weather was cleared, everything was to it's prior strength.
Now weather can kill them but it takes time AND it only affects opponent.
The fact it takes time is important here. That's why I don't really care about RNR or what not. I'm gonna play them as last 3 cards anyway so it's just -9 strength. With previous weather mechanics this deck wouldnt exist. One of the protectors down to 1 and now what ? clear sky to heal him or rally to bring another one ? That's still good 15-17 strength down.

It's absolutely due to the weather changes.

Agile weather means you can carry the same weather cards without fear of running into a deck with a focus toward certain rows. It also means you can more efficiently use your deck, to some degree, given the mulligan mechanics. Worst of all, it allows filling a board with weather, sitting back and twiddling your thumbs while you watch pretty weather effects (kudos to the devs for those btw, especially skellige storm), and supplementing with other specials to cheese your way to wins.

Unpreventable damage allows preemptive placement, which is bad, and puts weather in a position where clear skies, a card with a clear weather effect, is typically a poor counter due to the tempo loss. The size of the loss depends on the weather and whether the FL would of been a rally, but it's still a loss. Furthermore, if that FL was going to be a rally you take a thinning hit too, as rally pulls from your deck.

We have too many agile units now, presumably to negate the "new and improved" weather mechanics, which leads to it's own set of problems (devalues good card selection, knowing an opponent deck, and certain cards, to name a few). Weather immunity on select units was a superior concept, particularly since agile being everywhere homogenizes the factions further (as does everyone getting a mage, lock card, etc.).

I can understand trying to improve weather. In CB it was really only used as a supplement to certain decks, with units carrying synergy bonuses with it. Or, on specific cards designed to lure an opponent into a tough situation with quality setup on your part. In this state it may have been a bit underpowered in some cases, sure. But mindnumbing, full board spam and "field 6-8 units and bomb specials.", was not the solution.

 

[BuddhaBounty]

Back in The Witcher 3 weather cards weren't worth including into your deck whatsoever. They were too situational and typically generated less value than playing a stated card in their place.

The issue with our current system is that by playing Clear Skies in response to a weather effect you gain nothing, while the opponent has gained power and tempo in a 1 to 1 trade.

While playing as a weather focused deck I don't care if my opponent removes it because I've gained a power advantage, forcing them to play a 0 impact card, and they're more vulnerable to weather cards in the following turns.

As for thematic realism in Gwent I don't think there ever was any. The lore is carried over through artwork, flavor text, and some card mechanics. I would really like to see dialogue interactions between cards. For example if I play Geralt and my opponent plays Triss a dialogue between the characters would play.

 

[Laveley]

It's absolutely due to the weather changes.

Agile weather means you can carry the same weather cards without fear of running into a deck with a focus toward certain rows. It also means you can more efficiently use your deck, to some degree, given the mulligan mechanics. Worst of all, it allows filling a board with weather, sitting back and twiddling your thumbs while you watch pretty weather effects (kudos to the devs for those btw, especially skellige storm), and supplementing with other specials to cheese your way to wins.

Unpreventable damage allows preemptive placement, which is bad, and puts weather in a position where clear skies, a card with a clear weather effect, is typically a poor counter due to the tempo loss. The size of the loss depends on the weather and whether the FL would of been a rally, but it's still a loss. Furthermore, if that FL was going to be a rally you take a thinning hit too, as rally pulls from your deck.

We have too many agile units now, presumably to negate the "new and improved" weather mechanics, which leads to it's own set of problems (devalues good card selection, knowing an opponent deck, and certain cards, to name a few). Weather immunity on select units was a superior concept, particularly since agile being everywhere homogenizes the factions further (as does everyone getting a mage, lock card, etc.).

I can understand trying to improve weather. In CB it was really only used as a supplement to certain decks, with units carrying synergy bonuses with it. Or, on specific cards designed to lure an opponent into a tough situation with quality setup on your part. In this state it may have been a bit underpowered in some cases, sure. But mindnumbing, full board spam and "field 6-8 units and bomb specials.", was not the solution.

Dude, you pretty much resumed on this post all my thoughs about the current weather iterations. Kudos, take this upvote!

DEVS, READ THIS POST! YOU TRANSFORMED THE GAME INTO A WEATHER SPAMFEST!

 

[ibilibertas]

Public Beta:

The devs decided to basically change everything.

Weather has a permanent and ongoing effect on the board, so, no change of everything, not by a long shot. What they did was, design a whole new series of Units that clear Weather, then these new clear-weather-on-one-row have absolutely no synergy with anything else on the game, for any faction, deck and archetype. So, there's that too, btw. Also notice that many, many archetypes have no tools to utilize their archetypes even, but yes, create "Clear Weather" units for any units to even further reduce the synergy an archetype can have, brilliant. Also, they clearly overestimate way too much Locking Mechanic. Radovid is dead, buried deep in the CDPR cemetery of stubbornness.

But i do like Leaders having the Stubborn keyword now, Stubborn is a key-word to understand the OP things in this CCG.

 

[GW3NTLORD]

Why is frost on one side and drought on the other?

As I know & may be I am wrong but those are magic spells [ special cards ] which can be cast on any side so comparing it to real weather is wrong imo. Mages can cast spell to specific area & those are spells only. Please correct me if I am wrong.

About over all weather first I like the whole new idea in open beta but after experiencing spell spam I am now confuse that giving freedom to cast weather on any row is good or not as par balance wise?

 

[el_Bosco]

The row system and the card agile abilities have become completely stupid.

I mean, all the SIEGE machinery from NR are agile. Cmon...

The game is far less enjoyable for me in the OP than in CB.

 

[Tapiir]

I agree, I think agile units should be a theme of ST and not everyone. I would also prefer if the weather system was reversed to a more Witcher 3 type thing with weather affecting both sides, which based on comments, it used to be like earlier in the beta.

 

[Vedores]

I don't mind the weather so much, but the savage bear is so OP now its amazing. Easily 20p value.

 

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

All i play are people with monster decks and OP gold cards these days. How many times can one play harpys and spawn eggs without wanting to kill ones self?