Cards out of place(Forcing into archetype)

[lomvicmarko]

Cards out of place(Forcing into archetype)

I started looking back into my old favorite ST and I was amazed to find out that 12 out of 20 bronze cards(and that is just bronze lol) are practically useless or out of place(to me) since they are dedicated to mulligan or damn movement, and I find those archetypes incredibly stupid.

Lets look at ciaran it locks good 8str fine but moves locked unit to his row WHY?This card is mess to use but I have to. So in order to lock unit and place him on row to get value from lets say toruviel i have to move that unit to that row. Imagine how many times I moved unit from harms way or he help opponent stack buffs. That mechanic is there just to fit flavor of movement and it is worst faction lock out there.

Then there are stuff like brigade, cool I would like one of those to clear weather but it has only 6str and and movement that I don't want. Cards that are utility like this shouldn't cater to some archetype they should be tools that I can rely on. This needs to stop.

There are so many examples of this and i'm pretty sure you guys are aware of this. I get it archetypes are cool but it is stupid to make them with limited card pool. And what happened with cards with no effect but good body they still should have place in game. I hate how they took already made cards to create new archetypes. I think it is wrong new archetypes need new cards period.

Thoughts on the matter ?

 

[4RM3D]

You are looking at this the wrong way. Ciaran and Brigade being able to move cards is just a bonus in normal decks. Just like when Vilgefortz reveals a card. You can use all the aforementioned cards outside of their archetype because they are good on their own (albeit circumstantial). This means you don't have to use that specific archetype. Another interesting example is Celaeno Harpy, a unit being used by non-consume decks for the 'resilience' and by consume decks for the eggs. All these multiple purpose cards are actually quite interesting.

 

[lomvicmarko]

I tried looking it that way but mostly to add theme to movement. You lock target move to different row so iorveth hits it, and other interaction like it.
Card then should be good in all situations not circumstantial and especially not one that works against me. So if you play movement it is always good when you
are not then well you are out of luck. I shouldn't be afraid to include card in my deck.

At the end of the day it is just flavor for archetype. That would be an issue if cards that I can choose from wasn't so limited by mulligan and movement.
And that is not only in case of ST it is across all factions. I just have hard time understanding this approach.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

I think the main problem right now with ST movement archetype is that it's weak.

Getting Iorveth to work more than an average Geralt requires a monumental effort.

Unlike Mulligan and Spells, Movement archetype has few synergies, it can't be helped.
I suggest you to put your movement units "on hold" (sorry for the pun...) until next hotfix, they promised to take care of weak archetypes, especially that one.

 

[Redcoat2012]

Elven Scoia is pretty screwed in general due to the archetypes.

The Mulligan archetype will never work because post mulligans the decks aren't shuffled which creates some mathematically proven problems, unfortunately for ST near half the cards are mulligan related. Whats more there aren't any gold and silver cards that really help with this deck type, Reveal for NG has plenty of golds and silvers that play into it. Discard for SK pretty much enables ciri dash. Mulligan allows you to cycle the same 3-5 cards over and over again.

Iorveth is garbage, he gets even worse in a movement deck ironically. If you're moving enemies you're not moving your allies which buff from movement, why anyone would ever run Iorveth is a mystery, the only rationality I can see is if you want to take row clearing brigades in your deck and want to get some extra value out of them with Iorveth whilst not running movement cards. Even then hes a shit deal.

 

[lomvicmarko]

Issue is not how good mulligan and movement is good, it could be really very powerful but it doesn't remove fact that before those archetypes came to
this game we had dwarfs,elves and ambush. I feel like devs got side tracked with these archetypes and forgot original idea that was behind cards.
that is why title of this thread is forced in archetype. I can't play some elves because they are mulligan or whatever.

We who dislike new archetypes and idea of mulligan and movement got short end of the stick because units got converted and we are left with around 5 bronze to play with.

My point is that approach they took when adding these was extremely bad move and I hope it they realize that. Adding new cards when crating these is way
more sensible solution then cannibalizing what we already have. It went so far that we don't even have a single unit without effect.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

The Mulligan archetype will never work because post mulligans the decks aren't shuffled which creates some mathematically proven problems, unfortunately for ST near half the cards are mulligan related. Whats more there aren't any gold and silver cards that really help with this deck type, Reveal for NG has plenty of golds and silvers that play into it. Discard for SK pretty much enables ciri dash.

Ciriash and Johnny work pretty well in my mulligan deck, Sarah is sadly necessary though.

 

[SkippyHole]

Mulligan is pretty fun, and a pretty decent deck right now - its just lacking a decent gold finisher. Movement is pretty atrocious, cards like Zoltan and BMCs encourage you to move your allies, but Ciaran and Iorveth are for targeting opponents? It feels like those cards would be better in a Wild Hunt deck, or at least would synergise with some weather.

The trouble is I just don't get the changes from Closed to Open Beta. Ambush was problematic, yes, but it didn't need to be destroyed the way it was - to the extent where you either have Morenn or Toruviel, what is even the point in just having two (yes I know technically 3, but who plays Sappers?). Neophyte swarming was incredibly fun as well, there is absolutely no reason they should have been changed. Honestly, going to Open Beta CDPR were saying that Northern Realms were getting completely reworked, well Scoiatel got hit harder, and for no real reason.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

I believe mulligan would be much greater as a support for the other archetypes. For example, having a card that moves an adjacent ally to a different row, whenever you mulligan a card, or a dwarf, who is strengthened by 2 whenever you mulligan it. Such that Mulligan can be used in every archtype effectively, because being able to mulligan 3 additional cards is basically a great thing no matter which archetype you play.

 

[CommissarManiac]

All cards should be good in all situations

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? No, they shouldn't all be good in all situations. What an idiotic idea.

 

[lomvicmarko]

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? No, they shouldn't all be good in all situations. What an idiotic idea.

WOW! how did you manged to miss quote me? I never said ALL I said CARD. I was talking about Ciaran, utility card like him
should be good in all situation. I have to take into account where I want him to be on my board and in lots of cases that
dictates where I'm going to move opponents locked card. So I can save opponents card from lacerate or help him stack
units for buff in which case 8 value + lock suddenly became 5 value or less.

 

[Archpriest]

Ciriash and Johnny work pretty well in my mulligan deck, Sarah is sadly necessary though.

I'm curious, what's the winning rate?

 

[Cabowse]

I think movement is pretty useful even when not considering the cards that benefit from it, being able to move cards away from weather or into it, or moving cards away from traps if very useful. I agree about there needing to be more synergy in the ST deck though on the movement front, feel like I'm fighting whether to move my units or the enemy's.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

I was talking about Ciaran, utility card like him
should be good in all situation. I have to take into account where I want him to be on my board and in lots of cases that
dictates where I'm going to move opponents locked card. So I can save opponents card from lacerate or help him stack
units for buff in which case 8 value + lock suddenly became 5 value or less.

In CB the only Silver lock available for ST was Cleaver, so now there has been an improvement.

Ciaran is Str 8 agile while Cleaver is Str 6 melee, and you can always use Ciaran without moving any unit if you really want to.

(ofc Ciaran's ability looks quite weak compared to Fiend, Donar or Margarita; I believe ST Ambush/movement are still a work in progress)

 

[lomvicmarko]

Ciaran without moving any unit if you really want to.

How ?

 

[panerola]

How ?

Just put Ciaran in the same row as the opponent card you are locking.

 

[Sheva007]

How ?

By placing Ciaran in the same row the target is.

Ciaran is a good card, being agile and the movement are slight bonuses. Sure, Margarita, or the Fiend can result in an insane value on their own, but Ciaran has sinergy with other ST cards ir GIgni.

ST has quite some problems, Ciaran not being one of them.

 

[lomvicmarko]

Well duh i know that but did you guys read what i wrote. In most cases I have no choice where opponents card is going to go because his placement on my side is
what dictates that. Movement part of the card doesn't go hand in hand with lock ability that makes Ciaran an issue you can't deny that.

 

[Sheva007]

Yeah, we understand your point, is just that... we dont see it as a big issue .

You want to play Ciaran next to Toruviel in order to get the +2 buff to ciaran? Fine, been there, done that, but if thats gonna be a problem, play Ciaran somewhere else and sacrifice the 2 strenght in order to get a favourable situation.

thanks to Ciaran i've been able to set up a Gigni against opponents that were playing around it, for example. Or make my trappers stronger.

its not an autopilot card, you have to think about where and how play it, making the card a bit tricky, i'll give you that, but overall, í think its quite a good card with a lot of possibilities.

 

[lomvicmarko]

you have to think about where and how play it

This is what creates a problem he is lock card and you are usually sitting on it waiting to lock something. When target appears you have to play then and there. If opponent stacked row and if I play him on my row then I'm in range of gigni and have two units with 8. So I play him on different row and lose potential damage. suddenly playing him to lock just costed me a lot of potential value,. If i was about to double lacerate or use trappers on that row. I did lose matches because of this. That is why i think it is issue. At least this card deserves option not to use ability.

Toruviel interaction is not a issue since i can mitigate that possible loss of 2 points with another unit. Which is not the case in this example. No matter what I do I play sub optimally only because card has that function and it worked in favor of my opponent which absurd for a utility card like lock.