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What is CDPR's Stance on Discard Abuse by Letting the Timer Run Out?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by HenryGrosmont View Post
    I could support that. However, the Captains still get buffed and ships are triggered. Maybe buff/trigger for discarded cards that enter the graveyard?
    Well, discarding a card (especially if it gets banished) would mean zero tempo aside from whatever triggers you get. Not huge.

    Comment


    • #92
      Possible solution : If a player let the timer run out, a random card in his hand is greyed out (no discard, no banish, just unplayable). Then he gets 10 seconds again to play a card (not switching turn to the other player), random card is greyed out again if he doesn't play and so on until :
      - he passes
      - he plays a card
      - he runs out of cards

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Exoclyps View Post

        Well, discarding a card (especially if it gets banished) would mean zero tempo aside from whatever triggers you get. Not huge.
        The problem isn't discarding itself. It's the ability to res. Skellige is the only faction atm that benefits from it at its fullest.
        Originally posted by Makhil View Post
        Possible solution : If a player let the timer run out, a random card in his hand is greyed out (no discard, no banish, just unplayable). Then he gets 10 seconds again to play a card (not switching turn to the other player), random card is greyed out again if he doesn't play and so on until :
        - he passes
        - he plays a card
        - he runs out of cards
        Idk, I think there is something to this...
        Fishing relaxes me. It's like yoga, except I still get to kill something.

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        • #94
          I skimmed through all of this and the only time this could maybe be an issue, or better yet a smart decision is when your last card in your hand is a clan an craite raider ,and your Cerys needs one more tic before she can res.

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          • #95
            If they implemented the option to discard a card as a turn option it means they endorse some win conditions associated with it. How this works i guess we'll find out in the official stream tomorrow.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by HenryGrosmont View Post
              I could support that. However, the Captains still get buffed and ships are triggered. Maybe buff/trigger for discarded cards that enter the graveyard?
              What I meant by BANISHED is that it doesn't hit the GY at all. It's just BANISHED directly from the hand. It doesn't count as a "discard" in the traditional sense.

              Therefore, you have absolutely zero interactivity with anything in play, your hand, or your deck. The card is simply gone, because that's the strategy you elect rather than passing or playing.

              Comment


              • #97
                Sometimes People are AFK. I have to forfeit or pass and wait until all of his cards are discarded. I think the timer should only wait three turns, then forcing the afk guy to lose the game.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by scorba View Post
                  when your time runs out, you should be forced to automatically Pass.

                  that would solve a few issues.
                  Either that or play a random card (for when you disconnect for a second and can't play a card) . There's just so many problems with the way it's done now, as many of you mentioned before.

                  There's just too much of an exploit in it, more so for Skellige decks.

                  Banishing wouldn't solve the problem either, to be honest. There are those cases where you've done all you possibly could to play around someone's scorch and now you got them in a tough situation where he could scorch his own unity... And let's say you just passed, the game is tied, but you have an unity under weather effect, then the other person could just wait to get their Scorch discarded and winning because of weather. When actually the other person should just pass or play a card. That's the way Gwent works and that's the beauty in it. You can Check your opponent against the wall and leave them in a tough situation where he has to pass, because playing more cards would just hurt him more.

                  Come on, guys, that's a clear exploit and somewhat ridiculous. I used to see it as a legit strategy when I was just a newbie, but through my own experiences and from what I get now about the more deep Gwent mechanics and strategies, I don't see how this kind of play would fit with what Gwent represents.

                  Just to finish... Sometimes we see it as a cool strategy and improvise along with it. When you have just one card in hand, for example, and Cerys in your graveyard with counter 1. The opponent has done all he possibly could to not letting your Cerys come out to play this third round, BUT, the card in your hand happens to be a Clan An Craite Raider, so what would you do? Of course everyone here would just wait for the game to discard the Raider so we have 1 more resurrection to play both Raider and Cerys.

                  I think it's so unbelievably unfair with the other guys who did all he could to ensure you had no more cards to give you a discard effect or a resurrection, but we can have both effects now for just NOT playing a card. Come on, guys, it might be a fun situation for you when that happens but that's just not Gwent.

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                  • #99
                    Yes, it's awkward that a couple of very specific decks managed to find roping a viable strategy under very specific circumstances. However what can you do about it? The timer needs to be there otherwise players will drag their turns for forever like going afk and whatnot forcing the other player to resign and lose rank points just because he wants to actually play the game. The discard needs to happen too since in Gwent in every turn you must either play a card or pass. If nothing happens once the timer runs out than you can actually gain card advantage by roping, which is even worse than discard. The alternative is to force a pass each time the timer runs out, which would be bad for the normal situations where players get roped(answering the door, important phone call, etc) as they'll get excessively punished in these situations, and discarding a card while playing nothing when you didn't intend to do it is punishing enough.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by OwlRaider View Post
                      Yes, it's awkward that a couple of very specific decks managed to find roping a viable strategy under very specific circumstances. However what can you do about it? The timer needs to be there otherwise players will drag their turns for forever like going afk and whatnot forcing the other player to resign and lose rank points just because he wants to actually play the game. The discard needs to happen too since in Gwent in every turn you must either play a card or pass. If nothing happens once the timer runs out than you can actually gain card advantage by roping, which is even worse than discard. The alternative is to force a pass each time the timer runs out, which would be bad for the normal situations where players get roped(answering the door, important phone call, etc) as they'll get excessively punished in these situations, and discarding a card while playing nothing when you didn't intend to do it is punishing enough.
                      The thing is it's not a punish sometimes, it's a gift if any, depending of the type of deck you play, like Skellige or Scorches as we stated.
                      We're not saying here to change a discard to a "nothing happens". It's just as simple as making the game play a random card from the hand of the player or even passing. It's like you said, you either play a card or pass. So the game should just as much make you play a random card or pass. IMHO that is.

                      We are here to see how the current mechanic could be (and is) exploited and what it could be replaced with. We are aware of the situations when people don't use it as an exploit and it just happens because "life, right?", but really... The exploits that can be played out of this mechanic right now are just embarrassing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JVmachado View Post
                        Either that or play a random card (for when you disconnect for a second and can't play a card) . There's just so many problems with the way it's done now, as many of you mentioned before.

                        There's just too much of an exploit in it, more so for Skellige decks.

                        Banishing wouldn't solve the problem either, to be honest. There are those cases where you've done all you possibly could to play around someone's scorch and now you got them in a tough situation where he could scorch his own unity... And let's say you just passed, the game is tied, but you have an unity under weather effect, then the other person could just wait to get their Scorch discarded and winning because of weather. When actually the other person should just pass or play a card. That's the way Gwent works and that's the beauty in it. You can Check your opponent against the wall and leave them in a tough situation where he has to pass, because playing more cards would just hurt him more.

                        Come on, guys, that's a clear exploit and somewhat ridiculous. I used to see it as a legit strategy when I was just a newbie, but through my own experiences and from what I get now about the more deep Gwent mechanics and strategies, I don't see how this kind of play would fit with what Gwent represents.
                        Clearly that isn't an exploit, as CDPR has acknowledged the need for a discard feature. I've actually been in the Scorch/Bekker's Mirror situation with weather on the board, and I roped simply to discard the Scorch simply to let weather tick another tick. I've also done it with Epidemic and Alzur's Thunder because I didn't want to nuke my own unit.

                        If I could select the card to banish from my hand, it would give no advantage at all to SK. They gain nothing from banish, and banish doesn't hit the GY. The only thing you can argue is that a card I didn't play but surrendered would cause the next on-turn trigger effects. Which is exactly how the game is right now. Banish/Card Surrender makes more sense rather than having to wait 60 seconds for an intentional rope.


                        Originally posted by JVmachado View Post
                        The exploits that can be played out of this mechanic right now are just embarrassing.
                        You've yet to define a single exploit. You've given an anecdotal situation where a close game would be decided on whether a player should harm their own unit or surrender a card. That's not an exploit, that's strategic play. And really, it only involves weather or some on-turn effect that would decide the game. That's absolutely zero reason to not support an official means of surrendering a card.

                        As I stated previously - card surrender should be in the game at a base since passing is permanent. The card should be banished directly from the hand, so it has no board or GY interactions. And it shouldn't count as a discard. There's absolutely zero reason to make my opponent wait for a random discard.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by arubino99 View Post
                          You've yet to define a single exploit. You've given an anecdotal situation where a close game would be decided on whether a player should harm their own unit or surrender a card. That's not an exploit, that's strategic play. And really, it only involves weather or some on-turn effect that would decide the game. That's absolutely zero reason to not support an official means of surrendering a card.
                          As you can also understand why discarding leads to SK advantages right now, it can be used as an exploit to that faction, simply because you might have no cards to trigger a discard, oh, but just wait, the game will do that one for you. Really? So it's not that "playing a card would harm my units". There's more to it. I could play my unit or wait for it to get discarded, resurrected, bring Cerrys and strengthen P Captain (I've really been there, done that).

                          What you said is true though, that's why I dislike that we have no means to just not choosing a target for a card or to banish a card from our hand, since it would cause no interactions with the GY as you stated. But the way I think about the roping discard, is that if you have no means to just do it as a play option right now (like a button on UI or something) then it gets clear that it was not intended to be played like this and to cause the kinds of interactions it causes. So having to rope for that is kind of ridiculous (but as I said, a strategy that anyone would do, since it's a valid play).

                          Although I like new strategies coming out of unexpected places, it's clear to me that even devs didn't want it to be played like this.

                          I support any kind of mechanic as long as it's official, thought through and intended to work that way. It seems they'll change that, obviously because it wasn't meant to work like that, AKA "it's being exploited" (being used for not intended advantages), otherwise no one would ever mind changing that.

                          Hopefully we might even end up with a new play option to banish a chosen card. You made me think that's actually cool too. And since it would be an option, so roping could lead to a banish too. I agree with you.

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