People will believe anything... (a netdecking story)

[frbfree]

People will believe anything... (a netdecking story)

So yesterday on Facebook I saw an official post from the Gwent page with a link to a new deck by Swim. I looked at it, and looked at it, and...looked at it. And I thought to myself, this deck is complicated, and probably not for the general public. But I shrugged it off and went about my day as I always do.

Fast forward to last night, and I'm playing a few hands before I pass out, and at 4200 MMR in ranked play, TWO people; TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE came up against me with this "Millege" deck. The first guy, who seemed to have an understanding of it, just couldn't make it work. And he lost handily in 2 rounds. In fact, my NG deck drew him out in the first round, and Swim's deck doesn't feature a Ciri Dash. The second guy, forfeited on the 4th card.

Moral of the story. If the development team of this game wants to promote Netdecking, that's fine. If people want to Netdeck, that's fine too. But just because Swim puts "44K MMR" in the deck description, doesn't make it a 44K MMR deck. Even if Swim is at 44K, which I don't have any reason to disbelieve, he sure as hell didn't get there with this. And it's pretty sad that people assume they can just copy the next link in Swim's Decklist and compete with people who worked their ass off to get near the top. In fact, it makes me wonder how people got as high as they did, if they were willing to hand me free rank points by trying this garbage in Ranked Play.

 

[SkippyHole]

I saw this and thought pretty much the same thing - there's nothing about this deck that should really work, its just an axeman deck with Avallach in it. I'd love it if it was Swim's/Gwent Facebook page's attempt to really screw with the netdeckers. I wonder how many people would have tried it if it was a discard mill deck.

 

[nunqmuo]

ive faced 3 millege netdeckers today, won em all by a huge margin with calveit dash scorch control deck. It's so funny, really. Yesterday ive watched his video on this deck and i thought well, this "unusual" deck can be pilot only by swim himself, if at all. Turned out to be true. It's just hilarious seeing those guys playing netdecks without even knowing wtf they are doing.

 

[Karajorma]

At least try it out in casual before you swan all overconfidently into ranked play and have your butt handed to you.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

The fact is, what in Swim's hands is a deadly weapon, in a Netdeck Noob's hands is a dull knife.

I too met yesterday some strange "axemen" decks, but they give a new meaning to the "pushover" word.
Strange thing is, their MMR was close to 4K or more (I play casual but use gwenttracker)...it shows how easy is for unexperienced players to climb the ladder with autopolot decks.

 

[frbfree]

boo hoo people try out decks what a weird thing to do....

You might have missed the point. I'm not complaining. I'm advising people to be more original, and to consider testing decks in Casual Mode, instead of just grabbing something off of FB and thinking, "OMG, Swim got the 44K, I can too!"

Trust me. It's easy gains for me. I have no reason to complain.

 

[Selestes]

I remember when he presented NG deck with Rainfarn and Fringilla, and God, that day I faced maybe 10 times.
I dont know why, but the fact that people are netdecking is getting on my nerves.
I play ranked: oh, here's swim dwarfes, here's swim xmen, etc etc
I dont understand: is it so interesting to 100% copy someone else's deck???????

I try to create all my decks myself. Well, maybe the general idea is the same (discard, consume, reveal etc), but its so interesting to create good deck, little details, find sudden success of some card in some deck. And its so annoying to face netdecked crap.

For me, netdecking is ruining game, though I understand, nothing can be done against it. I just dont undersrand people.

 

[SigilFey]

Greetings to everyone. A few things:

1.) This thread is not going to become a place where experienced players gather to scoff and/or roll their eyes at new players.

2.) This is not going to become a source of ridicule against players that share their decks or others who wish to try netdecks out.

3.) This is not going to become a thread with repeated moderation reminders.

If this discussion is going to continue, everyone will need to focus on the pros and cons of netdecks. Please, ensure your comments are focused on the mechanics, the results, etc. Feel free to suggest methods or strategies that you feel work better than netdecking. Feel free to discuss the overall impact netdecking has on the gameplay experience. Simply be sure these arguments are expressed respectfully.

Please, do not make the mistake of assuming your opinion on the topic is superior to any other opinion.

A few posts have already been smothered in goo.

(Smiles. Stands abselntly tossing a marshmallow and catching it.)

 

[frbfree]

(Smiles. Stands abselntly tossing a marshmallow and catching it.)

I maintain that one must be present to catch a marshmallow.


It was really more a commentary on the fact that the Gwent FB page was promoting Netdecking by linking to published decks on a third-party site. The fact that I think the deck is inferior at 40K+ is strictly opinion, though I didn't mean to disparage people for testing it. I was simply pointing out the results of the two times I encountered it. No offense was meant on the OP's part.

 

[SigilFey]

I maintain that one must be present to catch a marshmallow.


It was really more a commentary on the fact that the Gwent FB page was promoting Netdecking by linking to published decks on a third-party site. The fact that I think the deck is inferior at 40K+ is strictly opinion, though I didn't mean to disparage people for testing it. I was simply pointing out the results of the two times I encountered it. No offense was meant on the OP's part.

The approach of "warning new players not to try it" immediately created an air. All intentions aside, we'll try to salvage it.

For my own opinion, I see the biggest issue being long-time players running up against, basically, the same matches over and over again. That could really suck the energy and longevity out of the game.

On the other hand, I imagine many new players will flock toward netdecks as a place to get started. In practice, it's really no different than listening to my students years ago debating Yu-Gi-Oh decks...how that card won't work well unless you have this card...this is what this kid does and he beats everyone...all part of the mission to build the "ultimate" deck. There was no Youtube, but I still had groups of kids trading physical cards and trying to build the same deck their friends had. It's a pretty natural way to learn the ropes of complex CCGs, I think.

It's simply that, now, we have Youtube, the cards are inherently free, and the process occurs exponentially more quickly and more often. Meaning players will hear said advice, build said deck, and play with it probably hundreds-of-times more often. I really doubt there's anything that can be done to avoid that -- aside from coming up with something more attractive than netdecks!

 

[frbfree]

The approach of "warning new players not to try it" immediately created an air. All intentions aside, we'll try to salvage it.

Actually, this isn't what I was trying to convey. If new players want to test a netdeck, or make the investment in scraps and cards to craft it, I can honestly understand the need for that, in building their own understanding of the game. But at 42K MMR, I'm generally not meeting new players. My point was more to the effect that people jumped off whatever successful decks have brought them this far and immediately started playing something they saw on Facebook/Youtube in ranked play, at a level where losses are sometimes painful.

For my own opinion, I see the biggest issue being long-time players running up against, basically, the same matches over and over again. That could really suck the energy and longevity out of the game.

On the other hand, I imagine many new players will flock toward netdecks as a place to get started. In practice, it's really no different than listening to my students years ago debating Yu-Gi-Oh decks...how that card won't work well unless you have this card...this is what this kid does and he beats everyone...all part of the mission to build the "ultimate" deck. There was no Youtube, but I still had groups of kids trading physical cards and trying to build the same deck their friends had. It's a pretty natural way to learn the ropes of complex CCGs, I think.

It's simply that, now, we have Youtube, the cards are inherently free, and the process occurs exponentially more quickly and more often. Meaning players will hear said advice, build said deck, and play with it probably hundreds-of-times more often. I really doubt there's anything that can be done to avoid that -- aside from coming up with something more attractive than netdecks!

Sometimes you have to see a netdeck/play a netdeck, and then modify a netdeck to make it your own. I get that. I also get people using trial and error. What I don't get is the total blind faith that some people (specifically experienced players with over 50 hours into the game) put in Swim or other streamers, just because they are streaming. If that makes sense.

 

[Snake_Foxhounder]

Netdecking isn't the issue here. Netdecking without basic understanding of how the game works is and then completely copying the deck, down to the last card.

If I see a deck I think I might like, I'll use it. But I'll always change a few cards to suit me. You can copy a deck but you also have to understand how it plays.

I ran into a few netdeckers that didn't know their heads from their tails.

 

[wildkeny]

This is a difficult deck to master I would have to say, but when you win with this deck, it is usually very hilarious and satisfying. And there is nothing wrong for people to try netdecks to learn other players' strategy of making a deck.

 

[Vaishar]

In the end of the story. When the creator meets his creation.

 

[lomvicmarko]

You might have missed the point. I'm not complaining. I'm advising people to be more original, and to consider testing decks in Casual Mode, instead of just grabbing something off of FB and thinking, "OMG, Swim got the 44K, I can too!"

Trust me. It's easy gains for me. I have no reason to complain.

How can you advise people to be original when there is nothing to innovate especially if people don't own big collection, I would understand if cdpr added 100+ new cards and you only see netdecks. People treat ranked as casual because in reality that is exactly what it is. Why would anyone even think of playing in casual is beyond me. People get this idea that changing some cards suddenly makes your deck different when whole idea behind the deck is same. Oh look I made this discard deck its very unique.

I made thread while ago about faction being forced into these archetypes because it limits deck building(when card pool is so limited). I tried for so long to make ST that is different but it doesn't work. Out of all bronze cards my choice is between couple of cards and If i chose not to use dwarfs then I get to pick from even less. Gold and silvers choices are not really choices deck makes its self.

 

[Archpriest]

I went down from 4k+ (for more than 300 mmr last night, just trying some decks) and bounced back today with a stupid deck I just made. If it works for me, it doesn't make it a deck for everyone. Same with the CDPR posting decks of streamers/good players. In my view, swim is an excellent deck evaluator. Doesn't mean he's either playing to its full potential or the deck is easy to pilot for public.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Not a fan of blindly netdecking but it's a bit presumptous to assume anyone playing a "new" deck is blindly netdecking. Likewise, it's the same to assume decks built by popular streamers are only played because a popular streamer built and shared their idea. I'd wager players like Swim put a lot of thought into the process. So giving them a hard time for it is out of place. If they put out decks that are a problem it exposes issues which can then hopefully be addressed by the developer.

 

[Karajorma]

Yeah, it's not a fair assumption that people are netdecking sometimes. I started playing Monsters : Consume almost immediately after I started playing. I was going on the forums and seeing lots of comments about how it wasn't a viable deck (seriously!) so I figured it would be fun to see if I could make a deck that would work. I experimented with it and ended up with something I later noticed was only 4-5 cards different from Lifecoach's deck. So if I didn't play one of those cards, I probably got complaints that I was netdecking.

I even tried out Lifecoach's deck in casual a bit before going back to mine. I'm not going to say that mine was better, but the problem with netdecks is that without the experimentation, you only have have a vague idea how to play them. I found I won with my deck more often because I knew how to play it better.

 

[xDivinity]

The game isnt even that complex compared to yugioh,for people to not be able to create a good deck their own.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Without more cards everything is net decking.