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Ovestated Bronzes in this now Beta

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  • #16
    I play all factions - got to Rank 19 mainly with ST an MS last Season. The fact that NG is my favorite faction doesn't change the fact that some units are overstated - you can remove Impera Enforcers and Brigades with a simple A-Thunder on their initial deploy. Sure, Brigades can come buffed because of the spies, but this requires SET-UP - if you don't have it, they are mere 6 that an A-Thubder removes in a snap. Try to do this with Marauders. The follow-up will be Full Moon or whatever potion and they will be buffing like crazy.

    And I am not complaining, but just stating - a lot of Bronze cards have better stats AND abilities then Gold cards, which is ridiculous, compared to the amount of Scraps one's worth over the other. Which is kinda different topic and not what I was intending with my post - if you are pushing the Bronzes up with points AND abilities to go close to the Golds... WTF? At least return Weather Immunity to at least some Golds, put Armor on them, Quen, diverse and actually strong Deathwishes... I know we are in Beta still, but equalizing all the cards like this? Come on, CDPR - you can do better than this.

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    • #17
      NR heavy cavalry are probably a bit over tuned, but I don't think there's a fundamental problem with big bronzes, in general. There are typically ways of dealing with most.

      The body size on gold cards is often irrelevant, as their abilities usually often massive potential synergy that more than makes up for it.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by partci View Post
        you can remove Impera Enforcers and Brigades with a simple A-Thunder on their initial deploy. Sure, Brigades can come buffed because of the spies, but this requires SET-UP - if you don't have it, they are mere 6 that an A-Thubder removes in a snap. Try to do this with Marauders. The follow-up will be Full Moon or whatever potion and they will be buffing like crazy.
        Really? this way I can say you can remove Marauders easily with.... igani / scorch / Artefact Compression / Manticore Venom after all hard work your opp. put into buffing. These are just neutrals with NG you can destroy easily with spy token or letho with menno / Assassination / 2 locks Auckes /Peter / Fringilla Vigo by putting low strength spy / Sweers if he is not having all copies in hand... I mean just look how many tools NG have.. WOW!

        So these is not about removing but having ability which kills the whole archetype strategy of opp. like Assassin do. Killing opp. key cards is not a fun. this ability is good for gold like Eskel but 3 bronze removing 10 strength bronze is not a fun to play. Same goes with Infiltrator as changing token not only removes high strength card but as more spy means more power to other cards too so that 9 strength gives lot of value to NG.

        And about other cards you mention like harpooner, axeman, Farseer these needs some setup too & their are so many counters are available too. By saying this I am not saying that all cards are ok as few cards defiantly needs a tweak & imo those are from NR & NG faction mostly.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Trent2501 View Post
          The cards you mentioned also require a deck build around them to support them. Spotters are horrible if you did not manage to setup a powerful card in the hand alondside them, and you have to play them before you play the setup-card. Giving the opponent enough time to react to them.
          Really? How do you "react" to someone revealing a 10 or 13 power card in their hand? Do you make them discard it? Oh wait, Gwent doesn't have that. The opponent with Spotters has 100% of the power and can choose to play them whenever they want.

          There's absolutely NOTHING you can do vs. Spotters short of using Maedroeme or Bomb. As for "building a deck around them" that's a big ol' derp... it's already a reveal deck. It's the exact same for the others on the list.

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          • #20
            @l_WHIT3WOLF_l you can't compare the way that you can easily remove cards in one turn with Bronze Spells, to cards that you can remove in one turn with Silver Spells only, cause if you use Bronze and do not remove them, you get punished hard after that. And it's like you are saying that said Silver Spells do not work on the NG units. And like the NG Units do not need set-up in order to do their thing. Tell me where NG would be in the Ladder if they did not had such tools like these? They are one of the two factions that do not have cards that can move your units around, so they do need other tools, just like NR have Armor.

            I can say that Axemen ability is also more Gold than Bronze, like the Marauders ability too and more and more.

            After this patch and with the new cards, NG actually became competitive again, after at least a month of absence on the Ladder and you want them to be nerfed again, while the other decks are competitive as hell again, and with more than one archetype per faction? Have some sense, please.

            About Reveal - I don't think it's that much competitive at all. Maybe slightly better than the previous meta deck, but it was expected to be. It had to be. I often see them using said Spotters to catch my tempo than anything else - even in R1!

            Now, the SK Pirates with the Skirmishers that are EASILY Strengthening beyond Ciri: Dash, a GOLD card... that's an whole other topic.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by partci View Post
              @l_WHIT3WOLF_l you can't compare the way that you can easily remove cards in one turn with Bronze Spells, to cards that you can remove in one turn with Silver Spells only, cause if you use Bronze and do not remove them, you get punished hard after that.
              Ok so what about using 3 bronze Mardroeme so you at the end can make them 5 strength card only? as if you think some one is running 3 thunders then running 3 bronze Mardroeme I think it's more value coz you can strengthen your units too in bad situations. And if you are talking about bronze removal then how you think Assassination is ok card as it's a bronze & capable of removing 10 strength bronze without any setup, just place that card near any bronze and boom. It's only 1 strength card but spy card which helps many ng cards to get buff or to damage more.

              Originally posted by partci View Post
              And it's like you are saying that said Silver Spells do not work on the NG units.
              I am not the one who open thread on every other faction card & forgot to include NG & I already mentioned that I too agree that few bronze abilities are powerful & as you can use 3 bronze it's getting more n more irritating to handle them. I have just posted the example on your statement.

              Originally posted by partci View Post
              And like the NG Units do not need set-up in order to do their thing.
              Yes Ng really don't need set up. They are just thinning their deck simply putting emissary on opp. side which directly buffing Imp. Brigade & add more damage to Imp. Enforcers... What setup you are talking about ? Just go & check other faction. Sk axeman, harpoon, greatsword / St movement needs more setup than any other faction.

              Originally posted by partci View Post
              After this patch and with the new cards, NG actually became competitive again, after at least a month of absence on the Ladder and you want them to be nerfed again, while the other decks are competitive as hell again, and with more than one archetype per faction? Have some sense, please.
              Yehh i already smell what you are trying to cook here. I never ask for any faction card nerf. I am just discussing. CDPR & developers are there to do their thing & about sense I have enough of it.. Thanks n Good Luck

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              • #22
                I disagree with Dun Banner Heavy Cavalry being op. It's Trollololo who is op. Dun Banner Cavalry would normally be a 12-13 power card (Or 16-18 with Shani or Stennis). But with Trollololo they're consistently getting to 20 strength and above. That's ridiculous, and it's not their fault. Trollololo also gains armor so fast that he's immune to weather and any damage, and the only quick reliable way to get rid of him is with Eskel.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by arubino99 View Post
                  Really? How do you "react" to someone revealing a 10 or 13 power card in their hand? Do you make them discard it? Oh wait, Gwent doesn't have that. The opponent with Spotters has 100% of the power and can choose to play them whenever they want.

                  There's absolutely NOTHING you can do vs. Spotters short of using Maedroeme or Bomb. As for "building a deck around them" that's a big ol' derp... it's already a reveal deck. It's the exact same for the others on the list.
                  I did not intend you to react to the reveal, but to the spotters being played later. Since you have to play the spotters before the revealed card, you have several turns to use Gigni, Scorch, Hailstorm, even make one a spy and remove it via Coehoorn... in addition to the things you already mentioned.
                  The point I was trying to make that yes, they are powerful bronze cards, but unlike other high-value finishers they require setup and can be countered more easily than Mourntart (for instance).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Trent2501 View Post
                    The point I was trying to make that yes, they are powerful bronze cards, but unlike other high-value finishers they require setup and can be countered more easily than Mourntart (for instance).
                    Disagree entirely. Spotters require one setup card, of which one is a leader, and the entire deck is built/synergize around revealing cards. It's guaranteed to get a Spotter at least to 12 power. Most of the time, it will be 15. That eliminates nearly all counters. Cards that drop powered up from the hand like that should be changed to buff over time. Then you have a counter. Citing Scorch, Hailstorm, or anything one-time Silver as a counter proves my argument. You're giving up a Silver to counter a bronze, lol.

                    Mourntart is a poor example. Firstly, it's Silver, so there's only one. It also comes in at low power. You have ample cards to counter it, many of which are bronze. Even a lock stops it. A small fart in the wind kills it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by arubino99 View Post
                      Disagree entirely. Spotters require one setup card, of which one is a leader, and the entire deck is built/synergize around revealing cards. It's guaranteed to get a Spotter at least to 12 power. Most of the time, it will be 15. That eliminates nearly all counters. Cards that drop powered up from the hand like that should be changed to buff over time. Then you have a counter. Citing Scorch, Hailstorm, or anything one-time Silver as a counter proves my argument. You're giving up a Silver to counter a bronze, lol.

                      Mourntart is a poor example. Firstly, it's Silver, so there's only one. It also comes in at low power. You have ample cards to counter it, many of which are bronze. Even a lock stops it. A small fart in the wind kills it.
                      Oh dear, of course you are right. Because the silver counters never hit more than the one spotter magically. But even then you seem to still be following the "Can only have six silvers, so they most be more powerful than a bronze card, because you can have as many of those as you like"-mentality of yore. Which does not seem to be true at all anymore in the current buff and swarm meta, where bronze are the cards that carry the deck, generating either power over time or tempo via synergies, while silvers and golds provide some synergy and tempo swings and flexible options to react the opponents' gameplan.

                      Secondly, I have played a spotter deck pretty recently and actually stopped playing it because the high-tempo plays were too easily countered (also, I like trying out different decks to figure out their strengths and weaknesses and believe unless you have tried to pilot it yourself, your experience on it is too limited). Unless you can precisely dictate what happens in turn 3 (or managed to reveal a pretty powerful card in the opponents hand to stagger the strength of the spotters), scorch will hit at least 2 spotters, then there are resets going on all the time and pretty much anyone seems to be able to counter the mangonel turn 1 (which is fair and good, btw.). So my 30 games+ experience does quite disagree with your assessment of the deck being uncounterable and if the spotters are being countered you pretty much loose all the time due to lack of other powerful plays because you sacrificed those to set up your base win condition. But I already expect you to bring the argument of "anecdotal evidence" forward, so let us just agree to disagree, though I highly doubt you have ever played the deck to learn of its downsides (like claiming the spotter strength will be 15, which requires keeping an 11 strength card on hand, so.... Cantarella, I guess).

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by arubino99 View Post
                        Disagree entirely. Spotters require one setup card, of which one is a leader, and the entire deck is built/synergize around revealing cards. It's guaranteed to get a Spotter at least to 12 power. Most of the time, it will be 15. That eliminates nearly all counters. Cards that drop powered up from the hand like that should be changed to buff over time. Then you have a counter. Citing Scorch, Hailstorm, or anything one-time Silver as a counter proves my argument. You're giving up a Silver to counter a bronze, lol.

                        Mourntart is a poor example. Firstly, it's Silver, so there's only one. It also comes in at low power. You have ample cards to counter it, many of which are bronze. Even a lock stops it. A small fart in the wind kills it.
                        Well you can use just an other high value bronze to "counter" it. There is so many high value plays right now. Just build a proper deck and play around your win condition.

                        I'm not saying all the bronzes that have been mentioned in this post are fine, tweeks are needed. But having high value bronzes are not a problem.

                        If you losing to them constatly, do modify your deck and include stuff like mardrome, igni, hailstorm or any other card that can deal with spotters. There is plenty you just have to adapt wich is the core of playing a card game like this.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kesza View Post
                          ... I'm not saying all the bronzes that have been mentioned in this post are fine, tweeks are needed. But having high value bronzes are not a problem...
                          I don't see problem in high value Bronzes either. The ones like NG Knight, for example, that only carries a big body, but ones with big body with a massive follow up effect - this is too much. Those am I aiming at.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Trent2501 View Post
                            So my 30 games+ experience does quite disagree with your assessment of the deck being uncounterable and if the spotters are being countered you pretty much loose all the time due to lack of other powerful plays because you sacrificed those to set up your base win condition.
                            You misunderstand. Completely. I didn't say the deck is uncounterable. I said the CARD is uncounterable. Because it is. You can do nothing to prevent a 15+ Spotter from hitting the board. You can do nothing to prevent a big Vhriheed from hitting the board. Same with a Pirate Captain. For Dol Blathana Protectors, you can't stop your opponent from casting spells and it buffing.

                            For DB Heavy Calvary, you can prevent it. You can stop their armor from accumulating. For ships, you can stop their triggers or outright kill them. Same for Axemen. For Farseer, you can lock it, damage it, kill it, before it buffs.

                            For the 4 above cards, you can do NOTHING to stop them from hitting the board at 12+ power. Most of the time, it's 15+.

                            Originally posted by Kesza View Post
                            Well you can use just an other high value bronze to "counter" it. There is so many high value plays right now. Just build a proper deck and play around your win condition.
                            Then you're in an endless cycle of power creep both in terms of the game you're currently in, and Gwent in general. And suddenly, people start complaining about cards like Hailstorm, because they swing for more. Oh look, people are already doing that.

                            The counter play to rock is not a bigger rock - it's paper.
                            Last edited by arubino99; 11-09-17, 20:54.

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