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NG spy decks are stupidly good, NR is slowly getting the stick up the [bum]

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  • NG spy decks are stupidly good, NR is slowly getting the stick up the [bum]

    Post might be a bit big on the rant... It seems like every other player I play against now a days has a NG spy control deck. That in itself is pretty ok. But jeez I play NR dedicatedly and more often than not its ridiculous the amount of spy synergy NG is afforded while NR in its passive (though great) still sucks overall. I mean NR probably has the least varied card list as it is, varied in the sense of abilities to control play generally. Not to say I havent had great victories with the NR deck Im running now. But Holy [muffins!] does NG have too many greatly synergized card sets in its core play. They really need to do something about NR card synergy. NR leaders for the most part are a real joke beyond Henselt. I mean Foltest is really not that great even with that 1 boost to all cards. Just doesnt make sense to withhold him for R2 and that just shows the lack of malleability this leader has. Coming to the final part of this small rant, the NR medics. Good [muffin-baking!] god what have they done to the medics. They ruined the medics. Nerf their base power but give us back that revival from the earlier meta; as it is right now, its restrictions to replace bronze only cards is beyond stupid. If you will keep the swap only ability for medics atleast include silver cards into the purview.
    Last edited by SigilFey; 16-10-17, 16:05. Reason: Bit heavy on the wrath / swearing.
  • Moderators' comments
    (16-10-17 16:06) SigilFey: "Rants" are not, necessarily, a problem in and of themselves...but we need to keep the tone and language reasonable, please.

  • #2
    As someone who plays NG, spies are incredibly draw dependant. You need emissaries to get the combo going, plus your enforcers. NG needs A LOT of setup and it's the hardest faction to play. Remove a few key cards and spies have a hard time keeping the tempo. Just because you lose to them doesn't mean NG is OP. Far from it. NG is one of the most balanced faction now.

    The problem is NR has no clear archetypes. Machines suck. Armor was nerfed (rightfully so). So it's a faction that doesn't know what it is. And next to Monsters and Skellige it's even worse. NR as a faction is in a limbo now.
    Last edited by Snake_Foxhounder; 16-10-17, 18:10.

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    • #3
      I honestly like that NR has no clear archetypes as it makes the whole faction more of 1 faction and not a composium of subfactions as most other factions are. You have a much greater amount of cards you can combine, in contrast to archetypes where you already know which cards you will expect from the start. Therefore I also dislike the armor archetype.

      Back to topic. I think the spy archetype is doing great feelingwise, but the problem that I have as an enemy is that it can be too oppressive. The combination of assasins and Enforcers can take out nearly every key unit of the enemy.
      Assasins are a better version of Alzurs in my opinion and combined with the Enforcers they can even kill units which are buffed by up to 2 points.
      The other oppressive combination in my opinion is if emissaries pull out another spying unit or infiltrator.
      Therefore I believe that the main problem that I have are the Enforcers. Compared to similar units in other archetypes they deal to additional starting damage and can be controlled. They are also much more played than the Impera Brigade.
      So, I would change them a little bit. The damage they deal every time a spying unit appears is only 1 against normal units, but 3 against spying units. Thus they can still destroy normal spies directly, but aren't as oppressive against anything else. And together with the other cards there should still be enough targets.

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      • #4
        I also think there is something wrong with Nilfgaard spy decks. They are absolutely ridiculous and in dire need of a good ol' nerf.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Snake_Foxhounder View Post
          As someone who plays NG, spies are incredibly draw dependant.
          I have to disagree. Spy decks, especially, have a myriad of tools at their disposal to simply thin their decks and draw what they need. Not only does the leader allow for a draw-3 and play mechanic, but Cahir copies it. This is on top of Emissaries that also thin. The only draw that would get them down is if you drew absolutely zero Emissaries and no Ceallach, then magically your leader and/or Cahir ALSO drew zero Emissaries or Ceallach. With mulligan 3 at the start of the game, this is so unlikely that it never occurs. You draw over 1/2 your deck on the initial hand, if need be - PLUS an additional 3 with the leader. That you gives you the opportunity at 17 cards out of 25. If anything, NG spies are incredibly consistent and regularly play every card that they want to play in a given match. The main issue they have is that they fall easy prey to disruption, and have a difficult time stopping other decks' combos. You don't have much room for tech cards in a spy deck.

          Contrast that to say - Swarm Monsters that relies on Renew combos. Don't get a Renew? No Yennefer? Oh, so sorry, you've lost.

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          • #6
            I've been in several sitiations where I drew 0 emissaries, making me use Ceallach to draw a single emissary, resulting in a dead draw, like a Vicovaro. Calveit and Cahir I also used a few times, only to not get anything useful. That's AFTER having to set up enforcers. I've been playing against spies and it's incredibly easy to destroy/lock their key bronzes and completely shut down their tempo.

            So not only do you need a decent hand, you need to set up a few cards to get some value out of your spies combo. Compared to NR that have cards that shoot several times, then again with a fresh crew (so just 1 card) and Skellige that has revives and deck strengthening cards that can't be interacted with (DBD), with monsters that can create big combos with a single card, you get NG which isn't that good.

            There's a reason NG is the 4th most popular deck now. It takes much more to do what other factions do much easier.

            What NG is good for is setting up your plays. Assire and Skellen are great cards that allow you to react to opponents and set up plays but require forethough. As opposed to some other cards, like restore, where you just spam it on a silver/bronze card and get insane value, plus the restored card's effects.

            Every time someone gets beaten by NG they cry wolf, yet it's a faction that's not very popular. If it's that good, why don't we see it as much as Skellige and Monsters?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Snake_Foxhounder View Post
              I've been in several sitiations where I drew 0 emissaries, making me use Ceallach to draw a single emissary, resulting in a dead draw, like a Vicovaro. Calveit and Cahir I also used a few times, only to not get anything useful. That's AFTER having to set up enforcers. I've been playing against spies and it's incredibly easy to destroy/lock their key bronzes and completely shut down their tempo.

              So not only do you need a decent hand, you need to set up a few cards to get some value out of your spies combo. Compared to NR that have cards that shoot several times, then again with a fresh crew (so just 1 card) and Skellige that has revives and deck strengthening cards that can't be interacted with (DBD), with monsters that can create big combos with a single card, you get NG which isn't that good.

              There's a reason NG is the 4th most popular deck now. It takes much more to do what other factions do much easier.

              What NG is good for is setting up your plays. Assire and Skellen are great cards that allow you to react to opponents and set up plays but require forethough. As opposed to some other cards, like restore, where you just spam it on a silver/bronze card and get insane value, plus the restored card's effects.

              Every time someone gets beaten by NG they cry wolf, yet it's a faction that's not very popular. If it's that good, why don't we see it as much as Skellige and Monsters?
              You are right, but there is a reason Spy-deck is a Tier 1 deck. And the answer for your last question: Skellige and Monsters are much easier to play IMO.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Snake_Foxhounder View Post
                Every time someone gets beaten by NG they cry wolf, yet it's a faction that's not very popular. If it's that good, why don't we see it as much as Skellige and Monsters?
                SK and Monsters are easier to play, and provide more point value. While NG spies have great consistency, they don't have the point value and can be easily countered. In "close" games with NG, (aside from mirror matches), I'll usually win by 5-10 points.

                If I'm playing my SK deck, that shoots up to 10-20+ points easily. SK simply outpoints them.

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                • #9
                  I fully agree with the original poster. Whatever discissions you Guys are Trying to force. If 50% of Every opponent i encounter plays the EXACT same spydeck then there is no discission needed. Btw out of the other 50%, 30% plays the armor northern realms deck with the kaedweni siege support armor deck. And The rest plays a weather deck.
                  If 99% of the entire player base is playing 1 of these 3 decks there is something really wrong with the balance in the game. No matter how hard you try to defend your spy deck,
                  its insanely annoying and demotivating when you see 3x impera brigade, 3x impera enforcers, infiltrarors followed by an unstoppable combo spam of emmisaries and medics.
                  The feeling is almost the same as what i used to have with milling decks

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the actual problem is the lack of synergy/consistency in other factions. Spies are really good because most of their cards work extremely well with each other. Emhyr and Calveit both work with that archetype as well. The only two cards that are problematic, in my opinion, are Assassins and Impera Enforcers.

                    Northern Realms, on the other hand, has some really weird cards. Some of them should be in ST instead lol. Like the Tutors..you literally mulligan a card and put a spell in its place. Tell me that doesn't sound like an ST card. It would work so much better in that faction. My point is that CDPR should take a look at Northern Realms and revise their cards. I think Machines and Armor are fine though, they're both really strong.
                    "Up and at 'em, lazy mingers! Ye'll sleep when ye're dead!"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BartjeBink View Post
                      I fully agree with the original poster. Whatever discissions you Guys are Trying to force. If 50% of Every opponent i encounter plays the EXACT same spydeck then there is no discission needed. Btw out of the other 50%, 30% plays the armor northern realms deck with the kaedweni siege support armor deck. And The rest plays a weather deck.
                      If 99% of the entire player base is playing 1 of these 3 decks there is something really wrong with the balance in the game. No matter how hard you try to defend your spy deck,
                      its insanely annoying and demotivating when you see 3x impera brigade, 3x impera enforcers, infiltrarors followed by an unstoppable combo spam of emmisaries and medics.
                      The feeling is almost the same as what i used to have with milling decks
                      I just can't take this seriously when you don't even mention the ever-dominant SK restore deck. I don't disbelieve you, I just think you're playing at the lower end brackets. Once you get up to 3300+, mostly you'll find only SK restore, some Monsters (70% consume, 30% weather), some NR. You rarely see either NG or SC.

                      Stats back up what I'm saying, too.
                      https://gwentup.com/report/17/17

                      But honestly, if you're playing against THAT many NG/Spies, tech against them and enjoy your free wins and climb the ladder. Locks destroy that deck as does anything that resets units.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i literally built by deck around countering milfgaard. 3 archgriffins, 3 ghouls, myrgtabrakke and draug. im trying to disrupt the graveyard as much as possible but its rarely enough to keep them under check. i use archgriffin to put his emissaries in his own graveyard, they just wait to next round or kill my griffin to resurrect it and put it back where it came from or spam emissaries so i cant move all of them quick enough. eat them with ghouls and i lose 9 points because im eating a 2 point emissary instead of a 11 point fiend same with draug its not worth the effort. i've said it before but milfgaard have way to many option imo and its really frustrating playing against a deck that can reveal ALL of your cards.. nothing fun about it, even if you win.

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                        • #13
                          I still play armor, and it works well, but one must (at some point) not just completely copy a net deck and actually change up some cards so your oppenent doesnt know what you are playing to a "T." Oh and spies are really fun to play, specially at first but believe it or not my winrate is higher with NR still by like 15%. NR has always had an identity crisis. The only time in open beta it had an identity was when armor was rated to be top tier before the armor nerf.

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                          • #14
                            The only thing wrong with medics is that the can pull another medic from your deck, which makes no sense. But tbh and people can totally disagree with this but if your playing competitively and have Medics in your deck then your probably playing a deck with a lot of cards and the RNG of decks with a high number of cards differs from game to game a lot more then decks with 25 cards and this makes for a bad competitive deck. If you truely want a winning NR deck with 25 cards amd literally a 70% winrate that isn't all over the Internet u can private message me and I'll give you one.

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                            • #15
                              I like that its been a civil contemplation of the overall meta in the above comments, but somehow I believe the thread has been hijacked by NG technicalities if that makes sense. My concern was more with the NR meta which as has rightfully been, as stated above, in a limbo. NR medics were my go to cards in the closed beta and they were brilliant, now ST has revives and Im forced to give up my gold or silver slot to either Shani or Nenneke respectively just to have any hope of a revival. Then the lackluster spies in NR, Dijkstra whee you can't choose the cards you draw (which is antithetical to the character's methodical disposition) and Thaler with his decent strength (should have rather made it such that all the other cards on his row would be forced to wear garlands of shoes giving them a one time debuff; atleast that would make it likable both meta-wise and character wise). I mean really? A Spy who doesn't benefit you beyond one card draw? NR needs to be looked into again; the cards need to be synergized better, the passive power buildup is too slow.
                              Last edited by gregski; 18-10-17, 00:17.

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