NG spy decks are stupidly good, NR is slowly getting the stick up the [bum]

[Serpencio]

Devs should make EMISSARY doomed. Every1 in ranked is just bouncing EMISSARYs 8 times, making every their bronze card 20+str worth, its just too way overpowered and needs to be fixed before season ends.

Here goes the pattern with these discussions

I'm using that deck so everything you said is wrong

I'm losing to that deck a lot so fuck that deck

Then back and forth, usually broken up by someone writing a long post in another colour, a few people responding to that rise and repeat.

I say track a reasonable sample size of your games, if you are facing problem deck A 75% of the time there is an issue. My only real complain/fear of the game is repetition and when a deck is either legit OP or full of exploits that's what you get, if it wins it wins so why wouldn't people play it.

Those are the only legit posts in this thread, I play this for small week and got kinda burned out by the repetitiveness (3800 elo 64/18/2 last I checked)
all I face are:
Skellige (the deck that discards everything and plays the same cards every game, as broken as it sounds I win 50% against them) the other leaders here and there.

Spella'tael, I win R1, I make them fully commit R2 and R3 we fight with topdecks, gross. (played like 2 games against the other Scoia' leaders each)

Wild hunt/Consume monsters, rare to meet them the consume is beatable by good scorch but can fuck you depending on if you pull buffed nekker or not, super annoying rng. Wild hunt or the inferior dagon weather decks, highly dependant on having synergy in drawn cards, many variations and techs in this deck makes it unpredictable, most interactive deck on this list.

And the most frequent and annoying for me, Nilf spies, R1 they pop off with chain emis->emis->2dmg smacking dude on average but it can be much worse. Impossible to fully commit against them as they have too much board controling cards while keeping high value cards like R3 naked 25dude. R2/3 they revive the bullshit chain, all while buffing the bronze infantry. R3 25dude and silver sorceress are capable of unleashing hell with Emhyr and Cahir, very unlikely for you to still have scorch due to above mentioned bronze infantry.

I'd either go with quoted suggestion or the bronze infantry only boosting itself once it's on board, not for each spy already in play. Allowing scorch keep and counterplay against R3 shenanigans.

On another note going first is insane handicap, for some decks more than others but it often means difference between winning and losing just by flipping coin... Fuck the rng. Most of my wins origin purely from rolling second.

 

[partci]

I can totally understand when some people get frustrated with NG Spies, it's a well tuned deck, but not OP. It needs few tweaks cause it gives unfair (bad design) advantages - Cantarella power level is ridiculous - she's at 11 thus at the lower STR of the Silver Spies and is having insane synergy with NGs side of the board - this is the first fix/nerf that should be considered (maybe make her 15). Second might be Rainfarn's STR (or make him BOOST by 3 the Spies he plays... you know what, this actually sounds fair - 11 Cantarella played with Rainfarn goes 15, Joacim goes 8, out of the reach of Nauzicaa Brigade's strengthening... hm). I think if they remove Brigades and Enforcers synergy with Silver cards will be the death of this deck, but Rainfarn and Cantarella are A MUST to look at, like, I just saw with my own eyes (and got a bit frustrated) a 28 PWR swing with ONE CARD and lost the round with two points down. If my opponent was not that lucky with his Cahir > Rainfarn > Joacim > Nauzicca Brigade, I would go 2 cards up and EASY win the game. Still it is luck to find Rainfarn in his deck like that and Cahir is not that often met with Calveit (for me at least), but due to NG thinning it is highly likely this will happen. Second part of why I lost that game was I didn't found MY spy, but I digress.

I know I lost the game because of those exact three things: Cantarella R1, than that insane (Cahir into) Rainfarn and "bad draws".

And I didn't had any bad draws!

Just had a bad draws against NG (he won with 3 points up, cause he killed my Succ with Menno (here's where 1 Armor to her would be of insane value) in R3 and managed to kill Iris via Enforcer and Vanhemar).

So, once again - the deck is not OP, it is really well tuned, but there are couple of things that can be tuned down a bit, so it can be a bit more fair compared to it's features and the other Factions' features.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

The biggest problem with NG spies is consistency. There is virtually no draw risk with that deck which no other deck in Gwent currently has. Other than that it's not that bad. We have had much more over powered decks in the game before. Wants the meta gets shaken with the new cards and changes this deck might go back to being average so the devs shouldn't over nerf it like they have done before. They should do something about it's insane consistency.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Power is relative. It's clear that SK, Monsters, and NR all outpace NG.

Resurrection is fine as a mechanic. The problem arises when it combos with strengthen mechanics (which basically have no counter unlike boost mechanics), and there's not many cards that allow interaction with the GY to disrupt the strategy. With both of those facts, Resurrection becomes hands down the go-to mechanic. I can strengthen all of my units, they get wiped/eliminated, and I get to bring them back (sometimes stronger)! And there's not much an opponent can do about it.

Spies are in a similar boat as Resurrection, to be honest. However, they have lower play values, and instead of strengthen either boost or deal damage. That's a massive difference from Strengthen. Boost and damage can be countered. But like Resurrection, it's nearly impossible to interact with spy mechanics. You can't stop someone from playing a spy on your side of the board, and can't really do much once it's there. Because of the lower play values and the boost rather than strengthen, NG is 3-4 in faction placement.

I'd put it - SK > Mon > NR > NG > Sco. With NR, NG, and Sco all fairly close.

Bro.....

What MMR are you playing at? You think Sco is the worst faction? How?? I also don't know how you have NR so high up. I rarely ever play them.

 

[Khreygond]

Buffing up Cantarella won't work at all. Let's not forget the reveal deck which now uses it. You want 3 STR 19 Spotters and STR 15 Venendal Elites?

But a possible change would be to change the Impera Brigade's deploy ability into "Boost Self by 2". Basically it will be the polar opposite of the Impera Enforcers that way. Or buffing the Disloyal units you play with Rainfarn too, that could work, if people are desperate for a nerf

However I really don't see any reason to nerf it. Is it a good deck? sure. One of the best. It's very consistent and probably a top tier deck, at least according to one analysis of the meta (see: gwentlemen.com/snapshot). But with hard control, you can shut it down very easily. It is dependent on 6 units with active abilities in total, locking or destroying those, even half of those, means game over for NG.

If you are having trouble, invest in locks, Scorches and control in general. With a faction as NR which is, like suggested "in limbo", you might find the room in your deck to add some of those cards

 

[4RM3D]

Buffing up Cantarella won't work at all. Let's not forget the reveal deck which now uses it. You want 3 STR 19 Spotters and STR 15 Venendal Elites?

...besides Menno still instantly killing her. Anyhow, you raise an interesting dilemma when trying to tweak cards like Cantarella. If CDPR wants to nerf CA agents by increasing their strength, that will actually backfire, not just for Cantarella, but also for Frightener (with Toad Prince combo). This limits the options as to what CDPR can do. With each new iteration of cards, the choice becomes more constricted and the solution more difficult. What you've just described highlights the pitfalls of balancing cards; fix one thing, break two more.

 

[altaybek]

Spygaard and Mill are the only archetypes that has %100 possibility to use all cards and unlike Mill, Spygaard has no counter. 3 emissaries at deck, another 3 from Caellach, another 3 from Medics. Thats extra 9 card milling and huge buff/damage advantage thanks to Enforcers and Brigades.

Make spies doomed then watch Spygaard fail for sure but do we want that? We shouldn't because this should be the level of consistency with all decks. Perfect synergy of each card and possibility to work all your cards at full value. This means less goat sacrifices to RNGesus and more tactical plays for all.

Instead of praying that we'll have a good hand we should be thinking when to use what card.

 

[jsachun]

Northern Realm could really do with more of it's silvers and golds having the crewman tag. With new muzzle meta, finding that low value crewman are being controlled way beyond last patch to make machines unplayable. With NR machines doing so low damage on their own, it's kind of essential to either have more cards with crewman tag, especially silvers and golds to have better synergy with Henselt in particular or buff up the base strength of current bronze crewman, so that they aren't so easily dealt with.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Spygaard and Mill are the only archetypes that has %100 possibility to use all cards and unlike Mill, Spygaard has no counter. 3 emissaries at deck, another 3 from Caellach, another 3 from Medics. Thats extra 9 card milling and huge buff/damage advantage thanks to Enforcers and Brigades.

Make spies doomed then watch Spygaard fail for sure but do we want that? We shouldn't because this should be the level of consistency with all decks. Perfect synergy of each card and possibility to work all your cards at full value. This means less goat sacrifices to RNGesus and more tactical plays for all.

Instead of praying that we'll have a good hand we should be thinking when to use what card.

Spygaard does have a counter. Remove their enforcers and brigades.

 

[altaybek]

Spygaard does have a counter. Remove their enforcers and brigades.

Unless you are running a control deck, removing all 6 is extremely difficult. Also when you are focusing on removing them you miss out your own build (if you are not spelltael). Win-win for NG. Spies have the perfect synergy and buff-control balance and that should be the way.

 

[Snake_Foxhounder]

Enough about NG, let's complain how ST is OP now. And how MO and SK need a buff. Anyone with me?

Again, this is all a matter of people not wanting to change their decks. They netdeck something and if the sequence of playing cards, as described on a site somewhere, doesn't allow for removal, they can't deal with NG.

If I, a casual player at best with a strange Scoia'tael buff deck can deal with both spies and mill, I don't see how anyone else couldn't. I run 1 thunder, 1 lock, Muzzle and mandrake and its more than enough to deal with NG. Although it's at lower MMR.