Is it just me or Nilfgaard is absolutely ridiculous right now?

[gigabomb]

Every day that I play against NG Spies, I'm reminded why I'm glad that I'm only playing to get my daily 100 ores.

Decided the same thing yesterday. I'm tired of settling for taking a round off of someone, although, I've been getting shut out a lot this past week. The Scoia spell/control decks are also very boring to play against, and there are some archetypes that I am clearly going to lose to most of the time. I'm beginning to feel like I did in Diablo 2: there might be countless combinations, but only few that are actually viable, and they may never be able to balance it despite their considerable effort.

And why can an emissary pull another emissary, a priestess of freya can pull another priestess, but a slyzard can't pull another slyzard?

 

[partci]

... The Scoia spell/control decks are also very boring to play against...

Oh, please, don't get me start on this. Like a friggin lemmings are those netdeck bozos. My head explodes every time I see 1x1 copy of Swim's latest creation. Can't you be creative a bit as well?

I guess not, but this is a discussion for a different topic (note: in those cases a GG is NEVER given).

I don't know why they changed Emissaries somewhere after the OB started (maybe the first patch). I guess they played a bit with them to see how it will go. But this was also after the meta where NG was tear 11 of 5, so I consider it a good thing. With the Enforcers now it's a nice little combo and there are MUCH worse things out there right now.

But still the biggest problem against this deck is if you lose the CF. Then you are more or less doomed.

 

[Odious_T]

There are 5 factions. But in a ranked game you're only going to come up against the same 2 most of the time which says everything that needs to be said.
I flat-out refuse to play an NG spy deck out of reluctance to contribute to the problem.
NG spy disrupts every other strategy and deck and most of the decisions are being made by the NG player while you sit and watch them pull spy after spy until they get the card they want.

OK enough kvetching.
My suggestions for constructive changes to the spy system would be: either boosting power of spies to 3 so they require 2 shots to kill thereby breaking the infernal loop.
And/or IE crossbows only getting a shot for each spy placed AFTER they are on the board. This current retrospective observation is brutal and requires little to no planning on the part of the NG player.

 

[Artyfacts]

There are 5 factions. But in a ranked game you're only going to come up against the same 2 most of the time which says everything that needs to be said.
I flat-out refuse to play an NG spy deck out of reluctance to contribute to the problem.
NG spy disrupts every other strategy and deck and most of the decisions are being made by the NG player while you sit and watch them pull spy after spy until they get the card they want.

OK enough kvetching.
My suggestions for constructive changes to the spy system would be: either boosting power of spies to 3 so they require 2 shots to kill thereby breaking the infernal loop.
And/or IG crossbows only getting a shot for each spy placed AFTER they are on the board. This current retrospective observation is brutal and requires little to no planning on the part of the NG player.

I totally agree.. I don't even feel like playing ranked anymore. I'm starting to gringe everytime I meet a NG spies deck which is like 70% of the time. So I'm just gna get my 6 rounds per day now since there is nothing else keeping me in the game.

 

[Odious_T]

It's all about choice. Often the offensive power of a card is offset by a certain amount of chance.
This dictates where and when you place cards like Harald The Cripple or DB Marksmen because you might hit something you don't want to hit next round but NG units get to precisely place every shot and the buffing units are much the same. Essentially the NG factions exposure to chance is much too minimal.
Perhaps Enforcers firing randomly at the opposite row once for every spy placed would make more sense.

 

[nemirni]

It's all about choice. Often the offensive power of a card is offset by a certain amount of chance.
This dictates where and when you place cards like Harald The Cripple or DB Marksmen because you might hit something you don't want to hit next round but NG units get to precisely place every shot and the buffing units are much the same. Essentially the NG factions exposure to chance is much too minimal.
Perhaps Enforcers firing randomly at the opposite row once for every spy placed would make more sense.

It would completely kill it. I don't see anyone who would run Enforcers if they were random. Not to mention decks like cursed wounds would just love it.

The NG spy faction has indeed good thinning and reasonably high reliability, but exposure to chance is actually much higher then you think. Try playing it and you ll notice that emissaries can often give you a choice of 2 cards in a range from bad to worse. Dead Vicovaros, empty board emissary that let's you choose between Nauzica brigade and Infiltrator and so on. NG still relies on having a good starting hand and mulligan because if you for example run 2 vicovaros and don't pull any chances are you ll pull them both on your opening.

 

[Kelewan1111]

The Infiltraitor + Menno combo is too overpowered !
It's like super scorch or Igni but without limite ( because you can also kill gold cards) it's not fair ! :comeatmebro:

 

[4RM3D]

The Infiltraitor + Menno combo is too overpowered !

...said no player ever.

:huh:

Wait a minute... Someone just did!

Well, okay... So, you have a gold card that requires another card to destroy an enemy unit. There are plenty of other cards out there that can instantly destroy a target without using a combo. To name a few:
- Scorch (and Igni)
- Artefact Compression (and Coral)
- Madman Lugos (and Leo Bonhart)

Each card has their strengths and weaknesses, Menno included. So, no, the Menno combo isn't overpowered.

 

[Kelewan1111]

There are plenty of other cards out there that can instantly destroy a target without using a combo. To name a few:
- Scorch (and Igni)
- Artefact Compression (and Coral)
- Madman Lugos (and Leo Bonhart)

Yes in fact, but the 9 points Infltraitor and 8 points Menno should be weakened I think.
Also, I still think that the Menno abillity should be reworded like Imlerith's "Damage a unit by 4, if this unit is spying damage it by 8 (or 10 or 12 whatever)"
If not, Imlerith should be like Menno under frost

 

[4RM3D]

If not, Imlerith should be like Menno under frost

It would indeed be better to buff Imlerith than to nerf Menno. However, giving Imlerith the ability to destroy a unit, would be too strong in a Wild Hunt deck. Sometimes (gold) cards in one faction are indeed stronger (or weaker) than in another, but you also have to look at it within the context of the faction because otherwise things will get out of hand quickly. Anyhow, discussing how Imlerith should be buffed goes beyond the topic of this thread.

 

[partci]

It would indeed be better to buff Imlerith than to nerf Menno...

You know, Destroy a Unit under a Frost actually makes a lot of sense, but than you fall in the pit of having sort of slightly different, but yet the same abilities for cards for each faction.

 

[nemirni]

It's like super scorch or Igni but without limite ( because you can also kill gold cards) it's not fair !

Last time i checked Scorch(silver) and Gigni(gold) were both able to kill gold cards...

 

[Kingoko]

And again every1 play ng spy. Even checked in proladder ranking, NG is almost always highest score. I'm tired of this bullshit already.

 

[4RM3D]

You know, Destroy a Unit under a Frost actually makes a lot of sense, but than you fall in the pit of having sort of slightly different, but yet the same abilities for cards for each faction.

The suggestion makes sense, but it might be a bit too powerful in a Wild Hunt deck. I rather have minor improvements to a few Wild Hunt cards, than a major buff to one gold card. Anyway, once again, this topic isn't about Monsters. So, that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[partci]

And again every1 play ng spy...

I don't know.

Everything I see all day is drunk Elves...

 

[Odious_T]

It would completely kill it. I don't see anyone who would run Enforcers if they were random. Not to mention decks like cursed wounds would just love it.

The NG spy faction has indeed good thinning and reasonably high reliability, but exposure to chance is actually much higher then you think. Try playing it and you ll notice that emissaries can often give you a choice of 2 cards in a range from bad to worse. Dead Vicovaros, empty board emissary that let's you choose between Nauzica brigade and Infiltrator and so on. NG still relies on having a good starting hand and mulligan because if you for example run 2 vicovaros and don't pull any chances are you ll pull them both on your opening.

Yes, it would reduce the reliability of the faction. That's precisely what's needed.

I don't think having a CHOICE of 2 'bad' (by which i suspect you mean a card you can't finish the round with) cards limits you much compared to other factions since units like NR Field Medics give you NO choice about the card they pull. Vicovaros allow you to go rummaging through your opponents graveyard and strategically hobble them. You can choose to continue the spy spam, disrupt a 2-3 card combo OR pull the highest value bronze depending on the situation.
Factor that in with Venendal Elites crippling anything useful in your hand before you even get to play it, and it feels like CDPR have some kind of collective boner for black and gold. There are just too many effective strategies available to NG and most of them are very robust compared to the fragile and obvious setup required for other factions.

It's simply no fun to play an opponent that is not subject to the same rules although it's easy to see why there are a large number of unscrupulous players happy to take advantage of the current mismatch. No doubt the more players that get used to having such an advantage the more that will resist any rebalancing..

 

[nemirni]

Yes, it would reduce the reliability of the faction. That's precisely what's needed.

No it's not.

I don't think having a CHOICE of 2 'bad' (by which i suspect you mean a card you can't finish the round with)

No i mean cards that are complete bricks at that moment. Like when your first emissary gives you a choice between a Vicovaro and.. a Vicovaro.

There are just too many effective strategies available to NG and most of them are very robust compared to the fragile and obvious setup required for other factions.

Ng robust? Okaay, So units that are buffed and not strengthened, susceptible to all sorts of removals are robust?
Also tactic that is slow in early tempo with a slow buildup of strength is not considered a setup but what?
And I am still talking only about spies, because other archetypes are really not even worthy of being mentioned in the OP topic.

It's simply no fun to play an opponent that is not subject to the same rules although it's easy to see why there are a large number of unscrupulous players happy to take advantage of the current mismatch. No doubt the more players that get used to having such an advantage the more that will resist any rebalancing..

I thought we were talking about NG, not Skellige...

p.s. NG spies has been unchanged since Enforcer came out(so that is season and a half now). What makes it so problematic right now?

 

[Yykkla]

What makes it so problematic right now?

I'd wager it's because NG Spies is one of the few archetypes that hasn't significantly adversely affected by the previous few patches, whereas most others have.

 

[Goodguyradovid]

It would be only half as annoying if they didn't take the entire clock for every turn. You can play 4 NG players or 10 different matches.

If they don't feel like NG needs rebalancing I'm probably done with the game though.

 

[Odious_T]

No it's not.

Is too..
But seriously. NG is overpowered & the flow of play is hella irritating. If you're playing it and still losing it's probably to other NG players who can out-skill you on equal terms.
My advice would be to get better and abandon the crutch you so obviously need.

I'm not worried about SK and this isn't an SK critical thread but it's interesting that they scare you and inspire some jealousy. I bet you'd love to be able to strengthen instead of boosting but that's an SK thing, mostly, and dove-tails with the resurrection specialty if the faction. It still requires skill to deploy (most of the time) and can be thwarted in a few ways and EVEN if not it's still a fun game if you lose to them.